Chance me for Brown ED - Senior, 4.0UW (99.43), 1540 SAT [Financial aid, astrophysics, astronomy, physics]

Chance Me / Match Me
1

Demographics

International student from Turkey

Cost Constraints / Budget

Able to pay up to $15000 for college, the rest can be covered with on-campus jobs but possibly irrelevant for Brown.

Intended Major(s)

Astronomy or Physics

GPA, Rank, and Test Scores

GPA: 4.0UWRanked 6/130 in my class

Academics:

1540 SAT, IELTS 8.0

Coursework:

School based coursework is equally distributed to all students here.
AP Physics C Mech 5, AP Physics C E&M 4, AP Chem 5, will take AP Bio this year.

Awards:

Astronomy Olympiad
Physics Olympiad first round qualifier
1st place in regional science fair
2x 2nd place in school based regional science fair
National math competition finals qualifier
International math competition
National Physics Confrence Honor Award

Extracurriculars:

  1. President of TAPhA: Was a founding member of the Turkish Astrophysics Association alongside high-level academics, current president, organized international initative projects, tutoring services and the nations first student-led astronomy confrence with +300 attendees. +100 members globally.

  2. Founder of StarSync: Founder/Director of an international data collection initiative, working with +10 known astronomy assocations globally, processed +3000 datasets into research-grade material, aiming to inspire undergraduate astronomy related research by publishing converted raw and unused data, +3 papers being written with dataset from our initiative.

  3. Published Research: Conducted research and wrote a paper on galaxy rotations and dark matter halos, main author, was invited to present at the nation’s most prestigious physics confrence as the only high schooler present, was accepted into confrence’s yearly journal.

  4. Photonics Internship: Was accepted into one of the nation’s best photonics laboratories for an internship. Conducted research on electronic coating techniques, co-author of paper on solar panel efficiency.

  5. Software: Designed astronomy software that automates complicated individual telescope software, aimed for university undergraduate use, worked together with Caltech postdoctorates to refine project. +200 recorded users, expected to be used in postdoctoral research groups in 2026.

  6. MUN: Participated and excelled at many formal MUN confrences, +3 international awards, +6 national best delegate, +3 outstanding awards, took part in leadership roles for the majority of the confrences formed in my city, secretary general of my schools MUN and MUN club presidency.

  7. Music Career: Was hand-picked to take part in the nations most prestigious conservatory program through a talent exam, excelled at a variety of instruments like clarinet, piano etc. took part in +4 regional orchestras as first clarinet, founded my school orchestra.

  8. Sports Career: Trained in MMA and Karate for 11 years, achieved black belt dan 3, participated in multiple national and regional tournaments, 2x 1st place, was selected as a mentor in my club.

  9. Outreach Project: Was the head of an outreach project based in my school, raised + $10000 for underdeveloped schools in the region, helped built lab and purchase scientific equipment to further inspire research.

  10. Founder of school Astronomy Club: conducted weekly meetings, organized a starwatching session, planned to collaborate with another regional club for a fundraising event.

My essay is about my struggles that I experienced when I first entered the scientifical world, and what I did to change the situation for those who will follow my path in the future.
I tried forming a unified narrative for my various outreach based activities and leadership roles.

I have an optional rec letter from the proffessor at the photonics laboratory (for the schools that accept it.)

School list:

Extremely Likely: Haverford College, Michigan State University, University of Miami, Vanderbilt University

Likely: Amherst College, Bowdoin College, Dartmouth College, Grinnell College, Pomona College, Swarthmore College, University of Notre Dame, Washington University in St. Louis

Lower Probability: Cornell University, Duke University, Brown University (ED), Northwestern University, Rice University, Williams College

Low Probability: Yale University, Stanford University

2

Your classifications for most of these schools are way off. Most of them are reaches.

Have you checked the NPC for any of them? Just because you can spend $15k a year doesn’t matter. The schools will decide what you will pay.

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3

Several things occur to me reading your post.

One think that I am wondering about is how you manage to do so many ECs. To me this looks odd. For example:

Music takes a lot of time and is a long term commitment.

Again, a lot of time and a long term commitment.

I can understand someone doing both of these while still doing very well in high school. But there is also…

I can see that the astronomy software and the research on galaxy rotations might be the same thing. Perhaps you should combine these two.

This is just a lot to do all of. I do not know if admissions will believe all of this. Perhaps this depends upon what your references say. A few of these do seem to be connected (such as the various astronomy-related activities).

Brown meets full need for all admitted students. Your budget may be fine there, as long as the university sees your need as the same as what your family thinks. Have you or your parents run the Net Price Calculator for Brown?

Otherwise, I am wondering whether all of the schools on your list are likely to be affordable. You will need a lot of financial aid. You are not going to be able to earn enough money to help much while also being a full time university student.

Your “likely” schools aren’t likely schools. They are either low reaches or reaches. Vanderbilt is not “extremely likely”. Michigan state might be likely for admissions, but affordability is not as clear. Michigan State and the U of Miami do not meet need for international students.

I think that you will get a few acceptances on this overall list. I do not know whether or not you will get even one single affordable acceptance.

And you need to get your parents to run NPCs to see whether what these schools think that you are likely to pay corresponds to your budget.

Best wishes.

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4

Okay so a few things to go over here,

First of all, about my extracurriculars, I’m kinda confused as to how my list is seen as “too many” compared to the rest of the applications out there. I did all of this, and have proof of it, however I do not think it qualifies as borderline unbelieveable, obviously all of this has been scattered throughout my high school years, and especially the ones that focus on academics and astronomy have been connected to each other like, my physics confrence acceptance allowed me to meet some incredible astronomy academics, which prompted me to form TAPhA, then the initiative through the last 5-6 months etc. My point is I have proof and strong a strong narrative to back everything up.

Regarding my software and research being the same thing, I really couldn’t combine the two as one uses the already existent manual telescope software to conduct research, and my own software solves that exact problem in a private setting. Only variation that comes up in mind is perhaps a sentence like “..did research, which led me to write my own software x to adress y issue”

Regarding affordability, I’m aware that 17/20 schools listed have publicly stated to meet %100 of demonstrated need if accepted, and for schools like UMiami and MSU, I’ll be applying however I do not have a concrete financial plan in the case of them being my only acceptance.

And finally, I know the schools I listed as “likely” are reach or low-reach schools. My point in submitting this thread is to get an understanding of what my application chances are when the rest of my application is kept in mind. If you’re unsure about me getting even one single acceptance excluding MSU and UMiami, I respect your opinion, but ask you to chance me, based on my application, and where it stands compared to the applications previously accepted into the colleges I’ve listed.

Thank you for your time.

5

Yes, I’ve checked NPC’s.
Disregarding my listing of the schools, what would be your opinion in my chancing for Brown ED, the school I’ve listed in the header of the thread?

I wasn’t really planning to write down and sort my entire school list, but decided to follow the thread template provided.

6

Brown admitted roughly 4% of international applicants two cycles ago . I’m not sure if the data is out yet for last year, but I’d imagine that number has dropped as Brown is now need blind/meets full need. Are you one of the top students in your country?

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7

Brown doesn’t release breakdowns of student demographics but for the class of 2029, they accepted 907 students out of the 5,055 who applied ED, coming up to an admit rate of around %17. I’m assuming the rate follows parallel, if not in favor for international students as despite there being more applicants in the international pool, less people apply each year for a number of reasons, and even lesser people apply to background ivies like Brown compared to well-known ones like HYP, or MIT and Stanford from non-ivies.

I can’t really say if I’m one of the top students in my country but judging by the lack of peers in various events I’ve participated in I’m hoping I’m one of the top students that achieved quite a lot, especially when compared in relation with background.

8

You have a great profile - congratulations. That being said, at the tippy top schools, the acceptance rate for international students is lower - chances for admission to these schools is very slim. Brown’s ED acceptance rate must be taken with a grain of salt as it includes legacies, athletes and other hooked students - the likely ED acceptance rate for unhooked international students is probably much lower. Most of the schools you have listed are reaches/low reaches for unhooked students - more so for international students. You may get a couple of acceptances from your list of extremely likely/likely schools (although most aren’t actually in the likely category) - the bigger issue is whether or not they will be affordable. I hope you have a good backup plan in your home country. Also, I have to say that given the current administration I would not count on being able to stay in the US after graduation - moreso with the current job market for new grads being not so great.

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9

Your point about hooked students filling up ED is very valid. The reason I’ve started this US admissions process in the first place was because I saw many students around me achieved acceptance (Dartmouth, Brown, UMiami etc.) in some way, and from there my goal was to achieve the same myself. I hope I get to have a chance of admission in a school I can afford and be comfortable in. As you’ve said, I’m hoping for a few acceptances throughout my list.

However the grim reality for unhooked internationals is confusing me. As I’ve said, I get to know a bunch of people that I can classify as “regular” in terms of applications that get accepted to top schools. Was their acceptance mostly dependent on luck, is that what intl applications depend on in general? (Considering the odds being against most internationals, regardless of the quailty of their application.)

10

There is a short list of colleges which are need blind AND meet full need for Internationals. Those are the hardest to get into for an International. There is a longer list of colleges which are not need blind– but are often or sometimes generous for Internationals. And then there are colleges that don’t care how much you can pay because they aren’t going to give you enough aid to attend if you can’t afford it.

And then look at how much you’ll be able to work and earn on a student visa- it’s not a lot.

Just get a reality check- not from other people you know, but from actual sources. It may not be fair, but an International student with a generous budget is going to have more options than someone who needs a lot of funds. That’s just how it works.

11

I fully agree. And that’s kinda what I meant by the “grim reality”. I’ll put up the best application I can tailored to the schools I want, but there are many factors, more negative than positive, that affect my situation. I don’t necesarrily think that means I’ll get 0/20 admits, but I’m aware of the competetiveness and randomness that my application will also have to be a part of.

12

Unfortunately, there are two major problems with this plan.

First, to obtain a student visa, you must provide proof of sufficient finances to cover your education in the U.S. for four years. Anticipated future earnings from employment do not count toward this requirement.

Second, your work options will be limited. You’ll only be allowed to work on campus for a maximum of 20 hours per week while school is in session. Most of these jobs pay entry-level wages or close to it, which won’t come anywhere near covering tuition and living expenses. College in the U.S. is extremely expensive!

Your best options are either the small number of colleges that are both need blind and meet full financial need for international students (though these are very competitive, as another poster mentioned), or lower-tier schools that offer generous merit scholarships to international students.

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13

I think you might be able to get a full ride to Howard University, although I’m not certain.

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Need-aware schools that meet %100 of demonstrated financial aid make the majority of my list. To my knowledge, said schools keep your financial status in mind when getting accepted in a way where they might have a chance to reject you if they can’t allocate you enough funds. That makes it competetive, but does it really lower my odds to such a degree that I should refrain from said schools completely?

My initial thought was I would get at least one acceptance out of the 14-ish need blind and need aware LACs I’m applying to, which would guarantee me a full ride in the process. Is this unrealistic?

15

You have misunderstood both need blind and need aware. NEITHER will “guarantee” a full ride.

Many students find that need blind schools offer them less than what they will need to attend. Their money, their calculation. They will not consider your need when they decide to admit you- IF they admit you, they pass your application on to the financial aid department which calculates what THEY think you need, and calculate your award accordingly.

Need aware schools may or may not admit you based on how much aid you need. But again, there are no guarantees that the package they award you will be affordable.

You need a reality check here.

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16

I seem to have misused my words here, I’m fully aware schools will calculate their own amount of aid based on my financial submissions. I’ve mostly been assuming I’ll recieve full need as I’ve discussed this with peers that had the same economic status as me, and ran NPCs for pretty much every school that I could find.

17

Unfortunately you’ve made a lot of assumptions and it doesn’t help your case.

Your main issue is that you have limited funds. You are exactly in the same position as the universities. A number of American universities are losing government funding. They have to limit their budgets.

1.). You are assuming that they will cover your full need. Their definition of need will be different than yours. Budgets are finite.

They have a limited little pool of money and they try to stretch it by dividing it amongst bigger numbers of students. Students can either afford to go, with the limited funding given, or they move on.

2.). As mentioned previously, with a student visa you cannot earn enough money to pay your tuition. The student visa allows you to work at a campus job for 20 hours. Those jobs pay minimum wage.

Most schools don’t recommend the full 20 hours if you want to achieve good grades. Our daughter worked 10 hours a week just for pocket money. Consider that you’ll probably earn $200 to $300 a month, if that. That will just cover your toiletries and essentials for the month. The US is very expensive. Earning $3000 a year at most won’t help pay that tuition of $75k per year.

Add and consider universities closer to you or in your country that are less expensive.
Remember that the US universities will educate you but you are expected to return to your home country after you graduate. There are no guarantees that you can stay longer. That’s a US immigration issue.

18

Thank you for your insight.

Bugdeting seems to be my main issue alongside many other internationals, and I get your point completely.
My question is, are the universities being dishonest when they state “%100 of demonstrated need will be met” in their offical pages? Assuming they determined I require the full amount of school tuition to attend, will they have to break that promise just to be able to strech out the funds amongst all applicants?

Also I would appreciate some insight regarding the title of this thread rather than my economical hardships, as the school I’ve stated is need-blind in the first place.

19

International applications form their own “pile”. You aren’t being compared with a kid from Chicago– you’ll be compared to a kid from your own country or region. That’s how the admissions stats for internationals is so low– they can choose to admit the top student from Egypt, Morocco, Nepal, Peru. They don’t need to dig deeper to admit 5 or 6 from every country.

Yes, they will “fully fund”. That does not mean that they will agree with your family’s assessment about what you can afford. And in order to get a student visa you will have to show that you have all four years of funding lined up– you will NOT get a visa if your plan is to “pay as you go” by working a job.

Take your shot. But do not ignore the admissions statistics- if 4% or so are getting in, that means 96% are getting rejected– and most of them have superb qualifications.

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20

No. A university is not required to meet full need for every student who asks. There is no law that says that they have to give up their university funds to anyone.

What they do is limit the numbers of students they admit with aid packages. They may select one or two students, that particular year, to fund. You have to be the best student from your country to be even be considered for their limited aid.
This is what a need-aware school will review. If you say that you need financial aid to attend their school, they will be aware of your need. If they can’t afford you they won’t admit you with funding. They may admit you but they won’t offer you aid.

A need blind-school won’t look at whether or not you can afford to attend their school. They don’t look at your financials when making a decision. They may admit you but without funding.

The universities will explain on their websites how they calculate need.

If you have too much need they don’t have to admit you.

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