Chance me for Colleges :) [TX resident, 3.94GPA, 1510 SAT, top 10%, $15-20k, poli sci]

Chance Me / Match Me
, ,
145

As you’ve read different folks believe different things.

I think, most if not all would agree that if grad school is truly in your future, you need to budget for it up front - and in the end, especially for a social science PhD, earnings may be tough. So avoiding loans is most important. I believe that anyway.

Interesting to me is that many on here say PhDs are typically funded from undergrad on but the Harvard profiles show most have other degrees first - either a Masters or Law. Not all but most that I saw.

Ogelthorpe was simply a low cost suggestion but again I don’t know your finances or interest. They don’t use common. I suspect but don’t know that it’s an easy app. It is a small school that matches in state tuition for UT - the only reason I mentioned. I work with a couple grads - they’re both solid (but working, not academic).

But you do you - just providing info.

Hope the info helped.

https://apply.oglethorpe.edu/account/register?r=https%3A%2F%2Fapply.oglethorpe.edu%2Fapply%2F

1 Like
146

Yes, that’s very helpful, and I appreciate it!!

I agree that avoiding loans is important. I’m not super concerned about my earnings in the end, personally. I suspect that my plans for post-grad could change in college, but I feel well-equipped to handle those changes, and I’m not stressed about it. Just going wherever life takes me! So the information about law school is helpful, and PhDs.

Interesting about Oglethorpe. Thanks!

2 Likes
147

Just for your consideration, here are some other articles.

College Transitions also did a similar sort of study of Top Feeders to the higher ranked law schools:

Total is on the top, per capita on the bottom.

I think it is fair to say the usual suspects tend to do better in the law school studies, even per capita. Again this is not meant to deter you, just to point out it is a bit different from PhD placement.

And actually, part of what is going on is a pure numbers thing. Harvard in this study had placed 3651 graduates in top law schools. Harvard was again top in Poli Sci PhDs, but this time with 41! This leads to very different dynamics at college, including what it takes to actually be competitive for top PhD programs versus top law schools.

OK, but then College Transitions also had this interest article:

It starts with what is basically a deeper version of the per capita list, and they acknowledge the usual suspects effect. But then they walk through lots more data which paints a more complicated picture. In fact you can, if you like, pull up pipeline data for a variety of colleges.

Here is what they conclude:

So, What’s the Verdict?

After sifting through this data, what can we conclude? Here’s the takeaway: while attending a prestigious, selective undergraduate institution can give you a leg up in law school admissions, it’s far from the only path to a legal career.

Strong liberal arts programs, well-regarded public universities, and institutions with robust pre-law support all offer viable routes to law school. Your undergraduate choice matters, but it’s not destiny. Factors like your GPA, LSAT score, extracurriculars, and personal statement play crucial roles in shaping your law school journey.

The key is to choose an undergraduate institution that will challenge you, help you develop critical thinking and writing skills, and provide opportunities for personal growth. Whether that’s an Ivy League university, a small liberal arts college, or a flagship state school depends on your individual needs and goals.

Remember, the path to law school is as diverse as the law itself. So explore these visualizations, dig into the data, and chart the course that’s right for you. After all, the best predictor of your success in law school – and beyond – is not the name on your undergraduate diploma, but your passion, dedication, and hard work.

I think that is a more realistic and data-driven conclusion than insisting your undergrad choice does not matter at all. But again, it is pointing to different ways it can matter, and acknowledging that different choices may make sense for different people. And in fact you can use some of the tools there to at least get some ideas of what paths and colleges might make most sense for you.

6 Likes
148

This makes sense. About what I expected. Thanks for the info!!

Most of my top choice schools have a rate of between 1/3 and 1/10 of their students attending top law schools. That seems to be reasonable to expect from a group of reasonably selective, small LACs. A trend I noticed was that public schools tend to send lower percentages to top law schools. That’s interesting, and I’m not entirely sure what to attribute that to.

Additionally, with the example of Mac, I would assume a significant portion of the top pre-law graduates would go to the well-regarded University of Minnesota Law School, which is right there, and they seem to send around 1/5 of their students to T14 law schools, which is intriguing.

My conclusion, after looking at the data for a while, is almost exactly the same as the article, with the caveat that top LACs seem to feed into top law schools at almost the same rate as top universities. Thanks so much for the info!!

2 Likes
149

Hmmm - where have you gotten your stats. Your #s are very high.

Here is Macs career report. 1/5 do not even go to grad school - at least not directly - let alone top 14

Public schools are larger and most not as selective. They get just as sticky kids but not as a percentage.

That’s why you see what you do.

I’d surmise the kid at Harvard Law could/would be at Harvard Law no matter where he went - that’s why they have 146 schools represented.

That’s why you see schools like Arkansas, Alabama, Oklahoma as top ten UVA feeders depending on the year. Bama and OU are top NMFs. A stud is a stud is a stud but certain schools have a larger chunk of studs. But that stud will be successful no matter - why there was a Furman and a Clemson on the Harvard Poli Sci PhD. Those students are studs.

I am not disputing your hypothesis but it seems to me your # s are overstated.

I’m trying to find where Harvard or Yale undergrads end up in law school - I’m sure their own plus schools like UMN.

Anyway, I can’t find it but I started looking at the Yale law list of where they are coming from - this is just the first few.

Don’t over think it.

Find the affordable, kick butt academically and crush the LSAT and you’ll have options.

  • Allegheny College
  • American University
  • Amherst College
  • Arizona State University
  • Barnard College
  • Bates College
  • Birmingham Southern College
  • Boise State University

By the way they have both SE Missouri State and Southern Utah. Clearly stud students went there.

This is a bit dated but you can see an old thread. So there’s been varying ‘thoughts’ on this for a long time.

I’d just say this - you don’t have these top 20 schools on your undergrad list. You have who you have and all are great. And will get you anywhere.

150

I meant of their law students, on the sheet NiceUnparticularMan provided, my apologies.
It was: Macalester, %going to law school 4.12, %going to top law school .88
So of their law students they send 1/5 to top law schools.
I think you and I agree with each other, I just didn’t express that quite right.

I have personal experience with a lawyer who attended a well regarded but not prestigious state school and went to a top law school, who gave me very similar advice: minimize costs, crush your undergrad school, and then you’ll get to pick where you go. So, I’m not terribly concerned about the undergrad institution I attend. That doesn’t mean that I’m going to intentionally attend a school that’s not a good fit for me academically or whatever, but it does mean that I didn’t shotgun T20 applications like many people I know, and it also means that I won’t be comparing the rankings of the school I end up at with others. (Most of my friends have never heard of LACs.) Anyways, thank you for this information and the encouragement, and if anyone has any suggestions for programs, any advice, or any relevant experiences, feel free to share!

3 Likes
151

My two cents is you are thinking about this the exact right way.

By the way, I do think there is an element of self-selection here that tends to carry through. Like a lot of public law schools that are not “T14” nonetheless have a lot of well-positioned alums in various markets, and students who do well will likely have plenty of opportunities to network and get good jobs. And of course the exact same thing is true of a lot of public colleges which are not T20 or whatever. So people who choose public colleges like that may end up disproportionately choosing public law schools like that–and for many of them, that will work out well.

So, to sort of extend your example if I may, Macalester and the University of Texas (Austin) had a similar total rate of people going to law schools (5.0% and 4.88% respectively), but Macalester had over twice the rate specifically going to top law schools (0.88% to 0.41%). And that makes perfect sense to me based on knowing the sorts of choices that would lead people to one or the other of those colleges.

Does that then mean I think you should automatically choose Macalester over Texas? Heck, no.

But if, say, that was a choice you were making in the end, that would be one interesting piece of information to have in mind–among many. And in fact, I think it could further involve things like where you might be interested in eventually having a career, and so on.

3 Likes
152

This data is a bit old but I wish schools would all provide info like this.

This is UT Dallas and they show stats for Texas Law Schools and Top 20 Law Schools from their grads.

Vandy used to do this - but no more. Well they showed each applicant - and many got in nowhere - which was interesting.

I’ve looked for this - like where does Harvard undergrads go to law school - because I’m sure they go to plenty of "regular ones) - non top 25, etc.

Just another thing of interest - but I think you’re good. Pick the school that’s right for you. Law school shouldn’t play a part at all. You being happy and motivated is what matters.

Still it’s fascinating. And the admit rates to top 20 schools are higher than you’d think for a regional college…well, higher than I’d have thought.

Alumni Stats - Pre-Law Advising Center | UT Dallas

153

College Transitions has some data on that subject in the article the OP and I have been discussing.

Overall you can see that 6.58% of Harvard grads went to law school, and 4.56% went to a top law school. For UTD it was 1.55% and 0.15%.

Then in the Undergraduate to Law School Pipeline chart, you can get some more information.

By far the biggest “pipeline” for Harvard College was to . . . Harvard Law School. That was followed by Yale, Georgetown, Stanford, Columbia, Cal, NYU, BC, and Penn. BC is the only of those not a T14, but obviously like Harvard it is in Boston, and the more of this data you look at, the more apparent is that locational effects are definitely playing a role in outcomes.

UTD, top by quite a margin was SMU. That was followed by TAMU, Houston, Texas, Oklahoma City, St. Mary’s, and UVA. UVA is the only T14 on that list, but it is worth noting Texas is one of the law schools just outside the T14 and for sure people interested in Texas, or possibly greater regional, employment might prefer Texas over various T14s.

Of course comparing Harvard and UTD is such a big difference it is hard to really know what all this means. Like just to get a somewhat objective baseline, Harvard is #3 in WalletHub’s Student Selectivity ranking. UTD is #202. So that might well have something to do with all this.

When looking at, say, Macalester versus Texas . . . I chose that comparison mostly because it seemed of possible relevance to the OP, but also because while those are extremely different sorts of institutions, in terms of selectivity they are at least broadly similar–like WalletHub had Macalester at #72, and Texas at #69.

So we discussed above the basic difference in top law school outcomes, and then here are some pipeline details.

For Macalester, tied for the top are Minnesota and Mitchell Hamline (a private law school in Minneapolis), followed by Georgetown, St Thomas (Minneapolis again), Michigan, and Iowa. Georgetown and Michigan are the official T14s, but Minnesota is like Texas in terms of national as well as state/regional prominence.

For Texas, it was Texas (no surprise), followed by Houston, Southern Texas, SMU, St Mary’s, Texas Tech, Baylor, Harvard, and TAMU. Harvard is the only T14, but we discussed Texas being fringe like Minnesota.

3 Likes
154

A new thread was started to discuss law school and acceptance rates from less selective schools: Colleges with Strong T14 Law Records & Admissions Rates Above 20%

Since this was a “chance me” we are getting very off topic. Thank you for your understanding and cooperation!

3 Likes
155

Seriously? As a TX resident you think this school is a hard reach for acceptance at UT??

156

Well, we’ll find out soon :slight_smile:

2 Likes
157

OP is not in the top 6% which consumes about 3/4 of the space.

5 Likes
158

Yes, if not auto/Top 6%, even for Texas residents, it’s a Reach.

3 Likes
159

But just bc kids are an auto admit doesn’t mean they are definitively going to UT.

1 Like
160

nevermind

161

There is something seriously wrong with this process. So all kids have to do is get in the top of 6% of their class (GPA) and literally do nothing else (stellar essays, extracurriculars, sports, SAT, nothing) and they get automatically admitted?

162

This is going off-topic for the OP. They are aware of the auto-admission process as noted in the opening post.

You can read about UT-A’s auto admissions practices here, which incidentally will change to the top 5% for fall 2026 start.

5 Likes
163

However not necessarily to their major or desired specialized school (e.g. Engineering, Business, etc…).

3 Likes
164

Got it. Forgot where I was :crazy_face:

1 Like