High School Student Aiming for Columbia [TN resident, 4.0 GPA (4.74 for UTK), 33 ACT, political science and statistics, <$15k (Columbia NPC $10k)]

Chance Me / Match Me
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1

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Demographics

  • US domestic
  • State/Location of residency: Tennessee
  • Type of high school (or current college for transfers): Public, News and World Report 3rd best public high school in the United States
  • Other special factors: Not a legacy, one step-parent graduated from UT Martin and the other dropped out of MTSU

Cost Constraints / Budget
Comfortable with Columbia’s 10k estimate, but can’t do more than 15k all other colleges net price calculator have given me 15 or lower
Intended Major(s)
Political Science/Statistics, Pre-Law
GPA, Rank, and Test Scores

  • Unweighted HS GPA: 4.0 Unweighted on a 90-100=A scale, individual 1-100 average is a 97.54
  • Weighted HS GPA: 4.74 UTK weighted (Never been given a weighted GPA outside of this safety app)
  • Class Rank: School does not rank but estimate top 15%
  • ACT/SAT Scores: 34 ACT superscore 33 ACT non superscore. Specifically 33 Math, 35 Science, 35 English, 33 Reading. Taking again in a week as the state pays for it during the school day.

List your HS coursework

(Indicate advanced level, such as AP, IB, AICE, A-level, or college, courses as well as specifics in each subject)

TLDR 17 AP Classes, 2 Dual Enrollment Classes

  • English: AP Lang, AP Seminar, currently in AP Lit and AP Research
  • Math: AP Precalc, AP Statistics, MTSU Dual Enrollment Math for the Managerial
  • Science: AP Physics, APES
  • History and social studies: APUS APHUG AP World AP Macro AP Gov, currently enrolled in AP Micro, AP Comp Gov, and AP Euro
  • Language other than English: Latin 3 adv honors, was given a slot in the prelaw program as one of 2 sophomores filled with only seniors and did not have space for AP
  • Visual or performing arts: Piano one year for the fine art credit
  • Other academic courses: AP Cyber Security, Prelaw 1-2, all other courses honors or advanced honors with the exception of gym and drivers ed, MTSU Dual Enrollment Speech

Awards
PreLaw award Sophomore year - given at the school level after being the head attorney for a trial presented in front of Judge Barry Tidwell in Murfreesboro, and selected out of an almost senior class

College Board National School Recognition Award - given the summer before senior year
AP Scholar with Distinction - given the summer before senior year, currently averaged 4.4 for 10 AP tests already taken

Youth in Government Outstanding Bill - given Freshman year after creating a bill proposing a type of micro plastic filters in dams that would cost a fraction of other methods and was the first novice bill to pass (gross oversimplification)

DECA State 5th place Business Law and Ethics/ 1st place Roleplay - allowed me to compete at internationals after 3 years of making the stage for 1st place roleplay but not getting a high enough place to compete further

Extracurriculars
Rho Kappa NSSHS Vice President Junior Year and currently President. Revitalized club from 6 members at the start of my junior year to currently 40 members and have led fundraising to cover all member fees and stoles for the past two years as well as participating with several volunteer events with the VA, Stones River Battlefield, etc.

Mock Trial Attorney for 3 years, leading attorney for 2 of those years. School does not have a Mock Trial Team Captain but virtually acted as one. Led team to compete at the state level for 2 of the 3 times in the school’s history

Volunteered 3 summers with Carpenters for Christ doing about 50 hours a week of manual labor, building churches in the rural south for 2 weeks each summer

DECA all 4 years went to Internationals for Business Law and Ethics, Junior Year after placing 5th at State, and also served as the VP of activities and fundraising Sophomore year

Law Internship with a former TBA President firm summer before senior year about 15 hours a week

Hotworx sales associate since May of Freshman year working about 15 hours a week, 48 weeks a year (2 weeks off for AP Testing, 2 weeks off for Carpenters for Christ). I live far from central and have to pay for my own vehicle, maintenance, insurance, and gas or do not get to go.

Essays/LORs/Other
Currently working with a Ustrive Columbia Grad and going pretty well, could send them if needed.
For Columbia
LOR from my Prelaw/APUSH teacher, who is a James Madison Fellow and also the sponsor of Mock Trial and Rho Kappa - We still Remind message each other current political and historical youtube shorts to this day and I am still constantly in contact with him for clubs
LOR from my Seminar Teacher as it was my only 3 on an AP test despite excelling in the class (final grade was a 104), and once told me she expected to read a major research publication I would write in college one day
LOR from the attorney I interned for the summer, and who used to be my Boy Scout Scoutmaster in Middle School. (Adores me, and when I asked for an internship, he wanted to know my pay for my other job, and then paid me 1.5 times that for the summer)

Others gathered for other colleges depending on requirements
LOR from Hotworx Regional Manager who relies more on me than the manager of the location after having 7 managers in 2.5 years
LOR from Deca advisor who was also my accounting/business and marketing teacher

Schools
College Vine estimated Chances
UTK Bakers School- already been guaranteed acceptance, but applying for honors college
Columbia ED 38%
Harvard RD 30%
Yale RD 28%
Georgetown RD 45%

So what are my chances?

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Congratulations for this very impressive HS profile - the course rigor, the ECs and their impact, your dedication to projects. Really impressive. :+1:

That being said, those CollegeVine estimates for Ivy+ are bonkers simply because acceptance rates mean 95% applicants are turned down, not because they’re not qualified, but because there are so many incredibly talented kids in the US there isn’t enough space for them all. It’s not enough to be qualified - necessary but not sufficient.

UTK+ Honors is a good safety.

Do you qualify for fee waivers through Commonapp?

You have a shot at Columbia, Harvard, G’Town, Harvard, Yale - but that still means 90% odds of not getting in. Better than the typical 97-95% odds of getting denied but still not good.

As a result, I’d encourage you to apply to a few target universities, if only to ensure you have a choice alongside UTK (even if you end up choosing UTK in the end).

For instance, why not apply to GWU and American University? You would need to show interest (ie., join their mailing list, open every message they send, and click on the links you find interesting) but it’d be a solid alternative if you didn’t get into G’Town : less competitive but still excellent, noticeably different from UTK, AND in DC. Or if you like G’Town for the Jesuit Education model, why not Holy Cross in MA? Then perhaps add Villanova (Augustinian, not Jesuit), or Fordham, depending on NPC results?

Sounds like your parents didn’t graduate from a 4-year college, even if a step-parent may have. This+a net price in the 10-15k range probably means you qualify as First Gen/Low Income. That’s a hook.

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I picked UTK as my safety because I qualify for their guaranteed acceptance program and they don’t have an AP credit maximum so I would walk in with 57 credit hours given I pass my senior year APs. Given the Utrack’s courses stay the same, I would pretty much only take the classes I like and are LSAT prep type with the exception of a Physics class (My AP Physics teacher sucked last year and only got us through 4 units by April and I spent many tearful nights to self study and get a 4 so I don’t like Physics much anymore) All other years AP I would get credit for already. I’ve thought about American because I love DC but I feel like I would need to justify the credit difference somehow if it didn’t feel like the environment would push me for a better LSAT score. Also thank you so much for your positivity and help!

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Also does that mean to change my common app status if only a step parent graduated from a 4 year program?

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In my opinion, you should not rely on those college vine %ages. Columbia, Harvard, Yale and Georgetown accept about 10% of applicants. And most of those rejected are strong applicants. Frankly, it’s impossible to realistically chance someone for these colleges.

If you do…or don’t get accepted, you will never know why.

I’m glad you have a great acceptance to UTK already.

Apply to the others and see. You are a strong student, but no guarantees. You could get accepted to your reach schools…or not.

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@Hunter08 if this is your real name, I would suggest you change it. Here is how:

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It depends - you just list it as is -
So, for instance, on your common app, it could read like this:
bio parent 1 : some college/didn’t graduate, bio parent 2: no college
step parent: graduated/4year college.
There should be a pull down menu (depending on application.. they changed the appearance for phones&tablets).
Each college then makes the determination whether that counts as FGLI or not.
(Imho, Ivies, NESCACs, etc, most likely would.)

I understand Utk Honors is the “one to beat” but you do want to have choices in the Spring.
Also, there’s more to life than a LSAT score :blush: Simply the added benefits of attending college in another State could be beneficial.

What about Emory, in Atlanta? Or the Lugar program at Denison? Or the shared governance project at Haverford?

In addition, if you end up choosing UTK, be careful NOT to graduate “early”; take as many classes as you can, especially those that make you read, write, think, and discuss things. If your financial aid covers study abroad, do study abroad. If you can take art appreciation and/or music appreciation (especially if you do so “in situ”), do so since those are statistically the ones adults are most glad they took in college (makes life more beautiful, makes travelling more meaningful, this type of things). Take classes in anything that sounds interesting and occasionally even in things that don’t but whose professor is well-known for being fantastic.

My guess is that you wouldn’t have to take Physics, though you could take “How things work”, the Physics course for non STEM majors. But you would meet the requirements with Introduction to One Health: from Antimicrobial Resistance to Zika with a Side of Thousand Cankers or Honors: Introduction to Biological Anthropology or Honors: Age of Dinosaurs…

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Congrats on your accomplishments. You are a viable candidate for any university. But please understand that Harvard, Yale, and Columbia have sub 5% acceptance rates and Georgetown has an acceptance rate under 15%. These schools must be considered reaches for any unhooked applicant. These schools have are many more well qualified applicants than spots available. Much will depend on things that cannot or should not be shared on a public forum such as essays, LORs, etc.

You absolutely have a chance at any university so take your shot! Glad you also have a good safety in hand. Good luck.

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Do you mean GWU (George Washington University) in DC?

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:scream:Typo! Will go&correct :grin:
Thanks for catching it :+1:

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Pretty sure they (particularly American) emphasize level of interest because they do not want to be “backups” to Georgetown (or GWU in the case of American).

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I don’t think American University or George Washington University guarantee to meet full need for all accepted students, and it looks like this student needs very significant aid to attend college. Will either of these colleges meet this student’s price point?

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College courses are not specifically LSAT prep, but general skills like reading, writing, and logic are helpful.

https://lawschoolnumbers.com/application-prep#ugraduate has some suggestions on choosing major and courses for pre-law students.

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I would add W&L and apply for the Johnson Scholarship. And they meet need regardless (review the NPC).

Is pre calc your highest math ?

I think you’ll end up at UTK - and guess what, it’s fine. If you want smaller, go to Chatt.

But room and board will be $15k.

For law school, where you go won’t matter. The top law schools have - for example Harvard, Penn and UVA - more than 100 colleges represented in their not large classes. Penn more than 200 looking from all three years.

Take your shots at your list. But add more meets need schools - run the NPCs. Tufts, Berea, BU, Denison, Grinnell, Kenyon, Union, WashU and more. I put the list.

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Yeah thats why Columbia’s Core has always been so interesting to me because i think it will challenge me more. I meant LSAT prep more so as only literature, argument, and writing heavy courses instead of STEM courses

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I never took calculus because I was told I would never need it by my AP Stats teacher for what I was wanting to go into and why risk my 4.0 for a class I wouldn’t need or probably like when I could take more stats focused math classes and almost every social studies AP. I also took classes out of order for my school, Stats as a sophomore when it is normally taken in senior year alongside our senior thesis research

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They don’t meet need for all but do meet need for some, whom they want.
Hopefully this student would receive some preferential packaging (geographical diversity, FGLI).
American has less financial leeway than GWU but GWU may be more competitive for that financial package.
NPC could help determine whether either is worth applying to, although preferential packaging may not appear through that mean.

@Hunter08 : run the NPC on NESCAC colleges. They tend to punch above their weight in terms of law school admissions and meet need. They’re all very different from each other, different vibes, so find a couple that sound like a good fit for you but if you like a couple and the NPC shows they’re affordable, they too would offer something different from UTK Honors, that would be worth weighting if you’re admitted to both.

Good luck and keep us updated :blush::crossed_fingers:

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Are you taking a math class in senior year?

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Emory sounds like a good pick, I also have a family connection to a current professor there. I wonder if any other classes would be considered a continued science course as I was told by a counselor when mapping out my UTK classes that it would have to be 2 continued focused science classes

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Dual Enrollment College Math for the Managerial, was originally going to be Dual Enrollment Applied Statistics 2 but only 6 people signed up because of the prerequisites and we needed 7 for the class : ( But I still needed my math to be a semester in order to take Comp Gov, Micro, and Dual Enrollment Speech

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