Chance me for Rice ED1/T20s/Match me [3.77 UW, 35 ACT, Pre-med]

Chance Me / Match Me
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Demographics

  • US
  • State/Location of residency: Undisclosed
  • Competitive HS (best in district), then transferred to an early college program high school (well known by colleges in my state) w/ an average SAT score of 1450, taking all college classes w/ college students

Cost Constraints / Budget
High income, no budget.
However, state uni is T30 and 10k/yr so I would choose it over a 90k/yr T25, for example.

Intended Major(s)
Public Health, if not offered, Health Sciences/Biomedical Sciences/Biosciences/Biology in order of greatest to least priority

GPA, Rank, and Test Scores

  • Unweighted HS GPA: 3.9 at old school when I left, 3.7 at current school
  • Weighted HS GPA: 4.4 at old school when I left, current school only UW
  • College GPA: 3.7
  • Averaged total GPA: 3.77 UW
  • Class Rank: N/A
  • ACT/SAT Scores: 35 ACT (36 science, 35 English, 34 math, 33 reading), sophomore year, first time

List your HS coursework

  • English: PreAP English I and II
  • Math: PreAP Algebra and Geometry, On-level Algebra II, AP Precal
  • Science: PreAP Biology and Chemistry, AP Physics and Psychology, AP Computer Science A
  • History and social studies: AP Human Geo and World History
  • Language other than English: Did On-level I and II and PreAP III of a language
  • Visual or performing arts: Orchestra

College Coursework
English I, English II, American Literature
Precalculus, Calculus I, Calculus II
Honors Biology and Chemistry, Physics, Psychology
American History
*Doesn’t include next semester’s classes or labs courses that came w/ the classes
*All credits are transferable except for Precalculus. Only 2 years of college are required to graduate if you transfer all credits successfully.

Awards
Research Scholarship from my school
Academic Scholarship from my school
AP Honors with Distinction
Scholastic Gold Key Art

Extracurriculars Also the description isn’t the same as my commonapp ones

-Research Lab (Scholarship Funded Researcher) | Co-author on 3 published peer-reviewed research papers in international journals, two first quartile journals (Q1) in the subject, First author on one publication.

-Research Job (Research Assistant (RA)) | Paid to do research for public health lab, employed under the Principal Investigator, ~13 dollars an hour, soon-to be peer-reviewed published paper with guaranteed co-author in either Q2 or Q1 journal, working on multiple projects.

-Music Club (President) | Grew by over 150%, 60+ members, fundraised $1000+ in my time as president for local nonprofit (partnership, established by me), leading all fundraisers & events

-Internship (Medical) | 100+ hours of a medical internship at a clinic, interviewed & selected, assisted & shadowed physicians and did multiple tasks for the clinic including seeing patients, taking blood pressure, etc. ordering labs for patients, researched disease and presented to 40+ colleagues, finished w/ high marks from both doctors.

-Music | Varsity orchestra, first violin, recieved best score in regional competitions as a soloist and as an orchestra

-Opportunities Club (Outreach Director) | 120+ members, directly impacted 30+ students, giving 200+ students opportunities in nonprofits, research, jobs, etc.

-Orchestra (President) | Self-established orchestra, not part of the school administration, recruited 40+ members, lead in advertising and seasonal concert events, weekly rehearsals

-Research Lab (Undergrad Researcher) | 3 months, only adding this because its a different science so more experience in diff fields of research

-Volunteering | Taught elementary schoolers how to code, book reading for elementary schoolers, assisting and organizing for local library, playing instruments at nursing homes and hospitals

-Volunteering | Selected as an excellent researcher to present to 200+ students at my school and answer questions about research.

Essays/LORs/Other
I think my CommonApp is pretty unique and very authentic, if I revise it well it would be very good. LORs probably just your typical LORs saying good stuff but I’m not sure if any of them would be amazing.

College List
-EDing to Rice University, ED2 undecided
-Lowest in the list is a T50
-Debating if I should apply UCs

Personal Thoughts
-Not sure if if my ecs are that good, they don’t seem very well-rounded or holistic, more like a “pointy” student than a round one especially in research, which some schools don’t like that much I believe, especially Rice (they said in a webinar they dislike it). Basically have no competitions either, so I’m not applying to any Ivys or T10s except for Duke.
-GPA is low compared to other applicants. The only thing to make it better is that I took college classes and the ACT score, but not sure how far that can get me.

If not T20s, then what T’s do I have a chance at? I would also be very grateful if anyone had some colleges in mind that are good that like research (I heard Duke does, any other colleges like it?)

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I don’t think you’ll get in and given this statement, I don’t know why you’d apply. You certainly SHOULD NOT apply ED if you don’t want to pay - current COA is $87K and only going higher.

Getting in is one thing. Then getting large merit - is a second hurdle.

Demonstrate a lot of interst and see.

As for the rest - I don’t know what pre-AP is but your rigor looks fine.

Your ECs as you describe them are outstanding. You don’t need well rounded - you need 1-3 where you put in time, effort and made an impact. You have many clubs and are in an orchestra - assuming ou spend time in it. If it’s clubs where you just had a monthly meeting, you’re right - no big deal. But you have music club, internship - so on paper looks fine.

You want to study public health and go to med school. Med school is 8 years so think with Rice $800K.

Even if you don’t go, with a public health degree you’ll need more schooling.

btw - what’s the difference between #42 Rutgers or #46 UGA and #88 Delaware or #183 Arkansas or #127 South Carolina.

I’d argue in most cases - nothing - and for pre med - definitely nothing.

Look at the residents from top teaching hospitals. Where did their residents go to college?

At Vanderbilt’s Hospital, schools like Ole Miss, UMass, [Sewanee], UF, Murray State, N Illinois, Kansas, Luther, Lipscomb, OK State. And yes the UNCs, Lafayettes and Vandy’s of the world too - but not by and large.

For Duke Hospital, Tuskegee, UCF, Muhlenberg, Minnesota, and Dartmouth. The next year’s residents, Temple, FSU, Gannon, Earlham and Campbell..

So - if you have a public for $10K - I assume you don’t live in CA. So why would you apply to UCs when you say, you’ll choose your public over a $90K top 25??

You might consider Alabama. Why? They’ll buy you in with $28K merit so your cost will be $22K-ish a year - and they have a formal pre med program called McCullough.

There are other schools with health scholar Living Learning Communities - but if you’re talking about $10K over $90K, just save your time and go there.

No matter where you go, given the major, you’re going to grad school - so where you go is not going to matter - and rank matters little. In most cases, Illinois/Rutgers/Georgia - are they really different than Colorado or Arizona or Oregon from what you’re going to get out of it?

I don’t think so but YMMV.

One last thing - you could apply to W&L and SMU - they have two widely available full rides in the case of the Johnson at W&L and Presidential at SMU. You may have a shot at W&L but the Johnson, which goes to 10% of enrollees - is unlikely. I’d say no to W&L but an admittance wouldn’t surprise me. I don’t see the Presidential at SMU - but you never know.

Or you can apply to schools like Troy and Prairie View, amongst others, where your stats would likely get you a full ride - not sure if these are automatic or not but you meet the requirements.

Finally, my daughter had free tuition at College of Charleston through the Charleston Fellows Program, which attracts admittees to top schools. It’s in the Honors College and by Invitation only to an interview weekend. You might or might not get an invite. There is no assured $$ amount but she got free tuition plus $2500 sent back to us each year. The school is very close to the Med U of SC, a leading hospital where you can try (not assured) to get shadowing opportunities.

Basically, what I’m saying is - heck no to Rice ED based on your initial comment and just go to your $10K flagship. I don’t suspect you’ll get into Rice regardless.

You can try for me but I would expect it wouldn’t be a good use of your time.

Best of luck.

Program Description – McCollough Scholars

CHARLESTON FELLOWS PROGRAM – Drive for the 250th – College of Charleston

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“All credits are transferable except for Precalculus. Only 2 years of college are required to graduate if you transfer all credits successfully.”

I don’t know if you were just giving us more information about your precollege academic work- but you do NOT want to skip two years of undergrad if your intent is a successful med school application. Whether or not a med school will accept the coursework as comparable– you are cutting off 50% of your opportunities to shadow, develop relationships with professors, get involved in meaningful volunteer work with vulnerable populations, etc.

And although a master’s in public health is a less competitive process- having only two years of college is the same 50% less than other students.

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I missed that - good point - and also to note, all credits may not be transferrable.

That will depend on the college attended - if they accept them or not. Not all will - certainly not every class.

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I see “Pre-med” in the title of the thread. This shapes my reply.

First of all, medical school is insanely expensive. You need to budget for a full 8 years of university if you are serious about taking this route. If your parents are fine with spending between $800,000 and $900,000 over 8 years then you do not need to worry about budget. Otherwise it would be much easier to save money on the undergraduate part of this trip than it would be to save money on the medical school part of this. You do not want to take the full cost of medical school as debt, or even half the cost as debt. If you get your bachelor’s degree in 2 or 3 years this might reduce the cost, but note the risks mentioned below.

Premed classes are tough. Both daughters had majors that overlapped with premed requirements (one was pre-vet and is now a veterinarian, the other is currently getting a PhD in a biomedical field). I have heard lots of stories about how tough these classes are. Things like premed classes full of very strong students with a mid-term exam with a class average in the mid 40’s or mid 50’s would be entirely normal. You do not want to rush to get to the toughest premed classes as fast as possible. Instead you should be taking these classes at a measured pace, scheduled to complete all premed requirements by the time that they hand you a bachelor’s degree, but being very careful to be solid on the prerequisites before taking any particular class and also being careful with regard to how many tough classes you take at the same time.

It seems that students may vary in terms of which premed classes they find toughest. For example I have heard that some students find the required math and physics classes to be difficult. Some other students see the math and physics classes as the solid A’s that help to make up for the B and the B- in two semesters of organic chemistry. A small number of students seem to breeze through premed classes, although even they are working very, very hard in these tough classes and even the few students who do best in the premed classes might in some cases decide that they want to take another path in life.

And we have seen a few posts from students who were taking organic chemistry as a freshman in university and suffering quite badly. Be cautious about taking classes early.

Another issue is that experience in a medical environment is essential for applying to MD or DO programs. If you get through your bachelor’s degree in less than 4 years this reduces the time available to get this experience. Most students applying for MD and DO programs however take some time off between getting a bachelor’s degree and applying to medical school. This gives more time to get experience in a medical environment, and also more time to prepare for the MCAT.

The large majority of students who start university thinking “premed” end up doing something else. There are lots and lots of forms of “something else” available. Fortunately the schools that are good for premed students are also generally good for a wide range of “something else”. If you get through your bachelor’s degree quickly, in some ways this may reduce the time that you have to explore other options, although of course some exploration can occur on the job after getting a bachelor’s degree before applying to any graduate program (medical school or otherwise).

If you look at the students in a highly ranked MD program, or in a highly ranked biomedical PhD program, you will find that they come from a very wide range of undergraduate universities. Assuming that you avoid arts academies and music conservatories and other very specialized programs, there are hundreds and hundreds of schools that are very good for premed students. There are also hundreds of schools that will be full of very strong premed students.

As one example, one daughter attended an undergraduate university ranked somewhere in the 100 to 120 range. She nonetheless at one point had a boyfriend who was premed who had never had a B in his life, plus a good friend who had only had one or two B’s in her life. Both are now MDs. Attending a school in the 100 to 120 range did not stop this daughter from being 4 for 5 in acceptances to very good DVM programs (she is a veterinarian now).

This might be a slow way to say that the ranking of the undergraduate university that you attend really does not matter if you want to become a medical doctor. You really do not need to attend a “top 50” school.

Regarding your ECs, I like them. I like the fact that you have both some experience in research and some experience in a medical environment. This might help you to know which path makes sense for you. Also, you really don’t need “well rounded” ECs. The point with ECs is to do what is right for you, whatever you do you should do it well, and you should show some ability to get along with people. This sounds like what you have been doing.

I have heard very good things about Rice, but do not know it personally. A “normal” 3.77 unweighted GPA might be lowish for Rice, but given the schools that you have attended I think that it is hard to guess how this will go. Certainly you have attended schools that might be tougher than normal and I expect that admissions at any university will take this into account.

Make sure that you apply to safeties. Given what you said about possibly attending a top 30 public university, and your apparent lack of concern for getting in, I am wondering whether you are auto-admit to UT Austin. If so then yes it is a very good university and is very good for premed students. Of course Rice, TA&M and any one of a couple of hundred other universities are also very good for premed students.

I think that you should think less about how a school is ranked, and think more about what makes a school a good fit for you. Do you want a large school or a small school? Do you want to be in an urban or rural environment or small town? Do you want a school with a big time football social scene? Since the premed and pre-vet classes are the same, if you attend a school with a big pre-vet / animal science program you might have lots of academically strong down to earth rural / farm folks in your premed classes (TA&M might fit this description). Would you want this? For one daughter the answer would have been “of course”, but what is the answer for you?

I think that you are doing well.

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I think you misunderstood what I meant when I said that sentence. I was basically saying if the opportunities are the same, the ranking is basically the same, I’m not going out of state. Rice has an amazing community, is next door to a medical school which many Rice students do research at, is in the heart of the best medical city in the US, etc. So of course I will pay to go to Rice. The cost isn’t my concern, my concern is losing money to a place that isn’t worth it. I said my family is high income, I will not apply to financial aid and do not expect to get any. With UC’s (UCLA and Berk) they are substantially better in rank, and also the networking opportunities are massive. So I will be willing to go there as well. I’m unfamiliar with them, so I don’t know if I should apply. If I have a chance I probably will. I care about prestige despite pursuing med because I face heavy pressure from my parents and my peers. I know I will end up accepting it eventually if I don’t go to a good school, but because of the environment I was raised up in, I want to try to do my best. For my younger self as well. Thank you for your suggestions. I’ll keep them in mind as I finalize my college list. Can you tell me why you don’t think I have a chance at Rice and where I can improve?

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Of course. I would like the full 4 years of college experience as well. I just mentioned it because I saw in another post that people asked about whether credits were transferable or not. I thought it might affect my chances at college because they want more money from people taking more classes. I had originally come to the school thinking I could cut time, but after experiencing college classes, I realized I definitely should not try to graduate early. Honestly, I want to retake most of the classes anyway. I don’t have a strong foundation in many of the classes I took so far, so I’d want to genuinely try to learn instead of just trying to get an A. Thank you for your feedback.

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Thank you for your kindness and your thoughtful reply. I am glad your daughters are doing great and found their lifelong passions. I can tell you are proud of them, and they have an amazing father. Since I learned (kind of the hard way) about course selection in college, I will definitely be as careful as I can with my 4-year plan and the way I manage my time. I appreciate your concern. I heard many pre-med take easy classes to keep a 4.0. I will try to limit my coursework to 1-2 rigorous classes per semester. Switching careers is an option, but since I decided on public health as my major, I don’t think I have as much freedom as others do to be honest. It will be hard for me to find a job. I have wanted to do med since I learned about macromolecules in 9th grade, and my passion for it still remains strong. I hope I will stay dedicated, but I can’t say for sure. Thinking about 13 years of school is intimidating, especially since I also wish to have a family in my mid-20s. I guess we will see. I know an undergraduate does not really matter for medical school. If you are someone who shines, you’ll shine everywhere, regardless of where you go. I have seen many examples of this before. However, I grew up in a family that placed emphasis on college. Even when I was in elementary school, I felt heavily pressured. I had wanted to go to UPenn, Columbia, etc., as I would grow up before finally settling on Rice. So I’m really determined to try my best to get in. Going to competitive schools has made it worse as well. I expect majority of the people from my current high school to go to a T1-T30. I know one day it won’t matter. But in the past, now, and for the next 4 months, it matters. So I will try. Rice fits many of the things I look for in a university. Small, private university, with an unjudgemental, inviting community that isn’t “party culture” and a beautiful campus while still being academically rigorous and providing challenges. If I don’t get into Rice, then I’ll still be happy with some other schools on my list, too.

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Thanks

I definitely mis understood - but you said “However, state uni is T30 and 10k/yr so I would choose it over a 90k/yr T25, for example.” - so I think you mis wrote.

You basically said, I’ll choose $10K over any over priced, high ranked school./

But now I understand:

  1. You have a prestige issue with your family - I get it.

  2. No one guarantees research or shadowing but ultimately what isn’t going to get you into medical school is Rice or UCB/LA (two different schools by the way). As I showed in the example above from Vandy and Duke, they have more Murray State, N Illinios and more as their residents.

The right school for you is the one where you can fit well, excel, get a strong GPA - the MCAT will likely be more you than the school. If you’re in a place with a ton of smart kids, is it as easy to stand out vs. a school where you might overperform?

If you don’t want giant classes, is UCLA the place to be??

So I would think - taking your parents out - what’s more in it for you.

Some schools, like Va Tech, have shadowing on campus, but it’s not assured.

Someone last week posted about Wofford, which has contracts for shadowing at hospitals. Is a smaller school like that a better fit?

Then you note the UCs because they are better in rank. So US News says they’re better, so they’re better? Do you really think going to UCLA is any better than Colorado or Delaware. Their student admission stats are higher, their weather is better and supposedly the food is better. If you like the quarter system and large classes, then go ahead and pay $80K+. But what exactly are you getting better for it than your top 30 for $10K? And what are the massive networking opportunities that you don’t have at any other school in the country?? And what exactly do you hope to get from them?

My kid was in a small sub group of honors program - she had networking opportunities - with diplomats and DC people and more - but she was in a poli sci program. But the school at large…not sure what you would expect from a large public school?

In the end, if you want med school, the true answer is - where are you going to do best.

You are better to go to Rowan or Robert Morris than Rice if you get a 3.8 instead of a 3.0.

You are better to go to a school where you will thrive - whatever that is - because if you’re happy, you’ll likely do better.

You know what doesn’t bring happiness?

Rank or prestige. You will be somewhere four years, day after day - and rank is meaningless to that. There’s lots of kids looking to transfer from top schools because they’re not happy…they likely don’t do as well academically. There’s a Vandy thread right now in fact.

So rather than pick a school because of a name, find a place where you will stand out - so that you’ll get great LORs for med school, etc.

In that sense, I think your search is highly misguided because it seems like it’s built on tidbits of info and not actually looking deep into a school and fit and given you have funds avail, visits.. Understand the parental pressures but that’s my perspective.

Bottom line - kids pick safeties over reaches every day - and do just fine. Both mine did.

So let’s say you don’t get into Rice, UCB, or UCLA and let’s say you don’t get into - whether the top 30 is - UF, UNC, etc. Don’t forget, the UCs won’t see your ACT - they are test blind. So you might be more UCR or UCM than UCLA or UCB.

Then what is your plan - because that’s a likely scenario?

The most important school - not your Rice / UCs but your safety - find one you’ll love.

Good luck.

Clinical Internships and Shadowing Opportunities as a Wofford Student – Career Center in the Mungo Exchange | Wofford College

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Well said!! To OP: You’re going to be in that school for 4 years, so pick the one you see yourself in. It’s not just about rank/prestige, but it’s about the environment you’ll thrive in, it’s the place where you’ll make life long friends. You have to be comfortable with the academic rigor at the school you choose in order for the rest to work… so look at what fits you the best, not based on rank/prestige or what your parents want. Good luck in your application process.

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You are right in many ways. From a parent’s perspective, I can see your frustration with my mindset. I want to preface that I do not look down on lower-ranked schools. The people there are wonderful and brilliant, and many don’t have the money to go to prestigious schools despite being equally or even smarter than those at top colleges. I apologize if it came off that way at all. Even as I was drafting a response right now, I began to feel like it sounded like I did, which wasn’t my intention at all. So I am coming back to apologize. You and I clearly have completely different perspectives. I’m probably not going to change yours, and you probably won’t change mine. So I do not really see the point in justifying my thoughts. I disagree with some things you said, but I won’t say what, because my opinion most likely doesn’t matter to you. But I can at least show you my perspective as a student since you showed me yours as a parent.

My high school costs 15k/semester. So in total, my parents would have spent around 60k. I was the one who convinced them to send me here. I wanted better opportunities, a better environment, and to be challenged. And I was, and I grew from it a lot. The same applies to my mindset for college. Obviously, prestige matters to me, but the top schools also have the rigor, the environment. They force you to be better. I want to be able to have growth, in both my learning and as a person. I don’t want to just “thrive.” I want to be surrounded by “a ton of smart kids” because then I can challenge myself and learn from people better than me. I struggled with academics when I first transferred to my new high school. I would pull all-nighters to cram everything the night before the exam because I wasn’t used to studying beforehand and learning so much content for one test. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn’t. And when it didn’t, I learned to change my habits and my methods of studying. I had to reflect, and I had to make myself better. And I’m proud of myself for it. If I don’t do well academically, that means I have room to improve. I have space to learn. If I get As on everything like I did at my old school, what’s the point? I’m not learning. I understand a 4.0 is important for medical school. But I don’t want a fake 4.0 just to struggle badly in medical school. I’d rather truly learn, take whatever GPA I truly deserve, and apply with a genuine passion to learn. If they reject me, then I’ll just keep trying harder. Even without the pressure, factoring out everything else in my environment, I’d still choose what I want right now.

I genuinely appreciate your concern. I can tell you are knowledgeable about things regarding college. I’m glad your daughter is doing well and is happy with her decisions. As the saying goes, “only you know what’s best for yourself.” And I believe what I think is best for myself. Maybe some is from the pressure, some is from other “superstitious” things about top colleges I’ve heard, but my life experiences all factor into my mindset and my goals for myself. I will be fine even if I make bad decisions for myself. It’s all part of life. Maybe one day I’ll regret not listening to you. But that’s for another day, another lesson to improve and reflect on that’ll make me a better person. Thank you for wishing me good luck.

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So if it were me, assuming that you get admitted to that state university, I would not be looking for OOS public research university options. I’d be thinking about how to get competitive options that would be more different from that sort of experience.

I get the interest in Rice from that perspective–they really make the most of doing things their own way.

In terms of other research universities like that, people in my circles with your sorts of interests often cross-shop Rice with at least WashU and Emory. If Rice is easily your favorite and you don’t consider those as better options than your state university, that is fine too. But to me they are the most obvious “If you like Rice . . .” sort of answer.

A less obvious answer but one I would personally strongly consider is going to a Liberal Arts and Science College instead. I understand you are concerned about family and peer pressure, and such people can sometimes not really understand the LAC scene, but these can be great schools for premeds. Great undergrad teaching in relevant departments, great advising, plenty of undergrad research opportunities, maybe a bit less of a sense of internal competition . . . .

And in some sense, what makes Rice special among research universities is they are sort of trying to reduplicate some of the aspects of an LAC-type experience. But . . . why not go for the real thing!

OK, so normally this is not where I would start an LAC exploration, but since you may need to sell yourself, your parents, peers, and so on, you can check out this list of feeders to med schools, particularly the first list which is per capita:

https://www.â– â– â– â– â– â– â– â– â– â– â– â– â– â– â– â– â– â– â– â– â– â– /blog/from-pre-med-to-md-understanding-the-pathways-to-medical-school/

A lot of what I would call “the usual suspects” from the top research universities, and Rice is at #4. So, yeah, that’s a real thing for Rice. There is always a very legitimate question of value-added versus self-selection, but at least we know Rice is among the colleges where lots of students end up admitted to med schools. WashU is #10, Emory #17, so yeah, with the same caveats.

But there are actually quite a few LACs doing really well too. In the top 20, you have Amherst #9, Haverford #11, Pomona #12, Swarthmore #14. Of course these are not exactly easy admits themselves, and Amherst, Pomona, and Swarthmore would be considered by many absolute top tier LACs. But Haverford is a little more interesting in the sense it is a sort of Rice of LACs if you will–a very academicky college that is proud of having its own distinct culture. Could be worth checking out.

OK, then you have Wellesley at #22 (top tier women’s college), Williams #25 (another absolute top), Barnard #26 (another top women’s college), and Grinnell #29. Grinnell I am going to focus on because again it is a very academicky college with its own vibe. Notoriously in the middle of a cornfield, but as a premed? Could be great.

OK, so I’ll stop listing every LAC, but here is the thing. You don’t even get to Michigan, UCLA, and Cal until 53-55. Again, there is a LOT of self-selection behind that, but still, this leaves lots of room for alternatives. For example, I think Wesleyan (#36) and Vassar (#43). are both great LACs well worth considering, Bryn Mawr (#41) if you are not male, Oberlin and Carleton not far behind the top publics, and many more.

OK, still not convinced? They also do a “top” medical schools version, which I don’t see as a big improvement, but it does bump up the top publics. Still, the LACs I mentioned above are either still above or at least not much behind the top publics.

And this isn’t just me. They pick up on the same pattern, and actually do an LAC-specific list.

Anyway, that’s my pitch. Rice is great, but if you want more options to consider as true alternatives to big publics, I think LACs are a great place to look.

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I like your ECs but I don’t have a clue as to whether you will be accepted to the highly ranked schools on your list.

Take a look at Pitt and Rochester. Excellent schools with a lot to offer.

While I understand your family pressure, I want to let you know that you can be very successful without going to the highly ranked schools on your list. That’s a lot of pressure.

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No need to apologize - your thought process is your thought process and you just stated your line on budget differently than I interpreted it - but my guess is you are not getting into Rice, UCLA, UCB and I don’t know your state school but I’m guessing it’s UF with Bright futures - and you might not get in there either.

And you are allowed to disagree - we all think differently and sometimes even learn from one another.

If that’s the case - then what?

What is your plan - I’d think about that more than will I get into Rice.

One last thing - if you’re at a high school that cost $30K per year, I’m guessing they have college guidance counselors - and can assess your chances much better than a website of strangers. Have you asked them where kids like you go or about your chances?

Best of luck.

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Thank you for doing the research and putting in the time to help me. This definitely helped me a lot and opened me eyes (?) to a new branch of colleges. I never even thought about applying to LACs before. I went to a webinar that had Rice, WashU, Duke, etc. and Pomona presenting. And even then, I never even thought about Pomona. I definitely agree that the people in my environment would not understand LACs. I didn’t either - until you just told me. I’ll definitely add a few to my list after doing some research. Thank you so much! And yes, I am applying to Emory and WashU. And yes, I would still go to the in-state over them since I don’t see much of an advantage in choosing them over the in-state. And I’m glad you see what I see in Rice!

16

It sounds like you have had some experience up front of what premed classes are likely to be like. This might help you in the long run and might mean that you are well prepared (at least emotionally). I expect that many premed students do similarly get at least some hint in advance of how hard classes might be.

And if you find the first two or three premed classes to be relatively easy, do not expect that they will all be that way.

And if you get a few B’s, do not freak out. Plenty of students get accepted to medical school with some B’s (and maybe even with a C or two).

A premed student can major in almost anything. Some people major in public health and end up in some sort of medical administrative roles (although the person I know best who took this route has a degree in nursing and a masters in public health). Given that you will be taking premed classes, it seems likely that you will be starting off with strong science / biology / chemistry classes, which suggests that if you want to do it you could pivot to a scientific research role. It is very common for students to change their major in university. Sometimes this is a large shift, and sometimes it is a more subtle shift between at least somewhat related fields.

I have heard that students graduating with a bachelor’s degree in biology have limited job options, and the jobs do not pay very well. Something similar might be true in public health. However, my younger daughter with a bachelor’s degree in biology had pretty much the opposite experience. I think the main issue was that while her biology-major friends were in a hospital getting premed experience, my daughter was in a lab doing research. She got familiar with a number of lab techniques that were useful to biomedical researchers. Then after graduation she got a research job pretty quickly. What experience you have while you are in university can make a significant difference one way or another even among multiple students with the same major.

It sounds like you are in a very competitive high school. Try not to let the other students get to you. Once you get to university pretty much wherever you go there will be lot of students who are happy to be there, and probably a few who wish they were at Harvard instead (unless you are at Harvard, in which case there might still be a few students who wish they were somewhere else).

From what I have heard I think that it would be a good choice if you get in, and I think that your chances are reasonable. It is just very hard to predict.

And yes your safety or safeties are very important. I will take your word for it that you have this covered.

Best wishes.

17

We do have a college counselor. I don’t really like sharing things with counselors, and since our old one left last year we have a new one this year. I guess I could go ask. But I like listening to different opinions, too, with people that are unfamiliar with the extracurriculars I do and everything. Kind of like I want to hear a “what’s your first thought when you see this” kind of thing so it’s more authentic.

The worst case scenario (in my opinion) is I go to the college I’m currently attending as a high schooler. As part of the college’s program, we get automatically accepted into their honors program. It’s around T150-T200. I would at least expect to get into 1 of the colleges on my list of ~14. I consider at least 3 colleges on the list a “safety”. If I don’t get in any, then I’ll definitely feel really bad about myself. Like I didn’t do anything in high school and I should’ve tried harder. But in the end, a college that rejects me isn’t worth my time. There’s no “plan.” It just is. And that’s fine. And I might later apply as a transfer or something. But right now, I’m not focused on the “if,” I’m focusing on what I can do in the present. I really love Rice. So I’ll put my all into Rice until November 1st, then I can start worrying.

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18

Can you please explain this? I am not sure I understand.

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I note if you are in fact admitted to the state university you described, and Rice was literally the only college on your list that you preferred, that would be fine as far as I am concerned. In fact many successful premeds went to their top in-state choice, because they are generally very well-suited for such students.

I guess the question is how sure are you about that state university? I would also think your HS counselors would be a top resource on that specific question.

If you are interested in a very, very good backup plan, colleges like Pitt and Minnesota are also highly recommendable for premeds (and actually lots of people), and they have rolling admissions. So you can apply and potentially get an answer even before you apply ED anywhere, and that can really make it easy to keep your application list short (assuming that makes sense for you generally).

20

Thank you very much. I would reply, but I don’t think either of us would like to drag this out. But I have read everything you have responded to thoroughly and found everything extremely helpful and reassuring. Happy for you and your daughter!

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