Chance me for Swarthmore College ED2 [PA resident, 3.85 GPA, 1530 SAT, economics and statistics]

Chance Me / Match Me
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United States, Pennsylvania, Citizen, Public High School, No legacy, Male

Intended major: Econ + Stats. Minor: Classical clarinet performance.

GPA + SAT: 3.85 UW (4.12 weighted); 1530 (730 english 800 math)

Classes (AP scores in parentheses):

Freshmen year: Bio(H), Band, English(H) A, gen ed for freshmen, Business, History(H), Phys Ed, Precalc (H), Spanish 2, and Health

Sophomore year: Accounting, AP Calc AB (4), AP Euro(3), AP Micro(4), Chem(H), English(H), PE, Spanish 3(H), Wind Ensemble (H).

Junior year: AP Lang(5), AP Macro(4), AP Stats(5), AP US History(4), gen ed for juniors, Spanish 4(H), Wind Ensemble (H)

Senior year courses: AP Literature and Composition, AP Government and Politics, AP Computer Science Principles, AP Human Geography, Anatomy and Physiology(H), Physics(H), Business Finance, Wind Ensemble (H)

Awards:

  1. John Locke Essay Competition Finalist with High Commendation (Finalist top 18% out of 63k internationally; High Commendation top 3% out of 63k); International
  2. President’s Volunteer Service Award (Gold 2x, 250+ volunteer hours); National
  3. NAKS junior leadership award (3x); National
  4. All State Band (2x); Region Band (2x); District Band (2x); State
  5. Future Business Leaders of America State Qualifier; State

Extracurriculars:

CO founder for Non Profit Organization(raised fundraisers, donated used instruments to kids, hosted free online lessons, performances teaching 500+ people, organized 30+ volunteers to raise 1k+); 12

Music teaching internship at Language School #2 (Led 30+ students in Korean drumming; performed at museums and universities to bridge Korean heritage & cultures with younger generations.); 12

Teachers’ Assistant for Language School #1 (Awarded President’s Service Award for 250+ hrs over 2 years; led Saturday Korean tutoring, proudly guiding 10+ adults and children to fluency); 9-10

FBLA regional winner + state qualifier (Led a team to win Top 2 in Regionals, earning qualification to the PA State Conference: enhanced presentation skills and public speaking.); 9-12

Youth Orchestra Member + Section leader (Selected through competitive auditions; performed for 10,000+ audiences, organized and coached the clarinet section, dedicated to harmonious music.); 10-12

School track (Committed 2 years to a 100+ athlete track program. Trained 10+ hours weekly and competed in 8+ meets within the competitive league); 9-10

Worked as a server for a senior home (Orchestrated dining for a 5-table section, promptly resolving guest issues and treating senior residents with warmth and care like family.); 11

Marching Band Member (Logged 12+ weekly hours (200+ seasonally) in rigorous rehearsals & performances. Competed in 2+ state-level field shows and 5+ major festivals.); 9, 12

Model UN (Awarded Honorable Mention Delegate; mentored new members and strengthened team collaboration. ); 9-10

Club swim (Participated in Swim Practice for over 10+ years. Passionate about improving my health through exercise.); 9-11

Essay:

  1. Personal statement p good in my opinion
  2. Letter of rec: had a great relationship with my two teachers, so im guessing pretty good but theres a confidentiality policy where i cant see them
  3. Additional letter of rec: from my internship vice principal, very good solid 9/10 9.5/10
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Why did you stop math after calc? Not counting stats which isn’t rigorous - and none Senior Year.

Was your personal statement good in anyone else’s opinion , or just yours ? Did others review is what I’m asking.

I’m not an AO and you have a fantastic portfolio but if you demanded an answer, I’d say unlikely.

I assume you have other LACs in RD that are affordable ? Initially you wanted finance but you’ve now changed to econ ? Why the change ? Just curious

Where did you ED1, if you did?

Good luck - hope you do get in. If it’s your true favorite and the cost works, it’s certainly worth a shot.

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i stopped cause i really struggled in calc ab and i was going through some bad mental health issues. i talked to my consular and he strongly advised against bc in order to preserve my gpa.

i got multiple opinions for my essay including a family friend who helps with college admissions.

i changed from finance to econ cause midway through college apps i realized i dislike big schools and would prefer a small environment where i can just study, play my instrument, conduct research and do pitches, read, etc. i just wanted a more academic environment and i feel like lacs can do that. i also have no clue what i wanna do like at all so i thought i could go to a lac and maybe find something i could do for a career.

i did ed1 to uva and got deferred to regular.

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This concerns me. You were way, way ahead of normal in mathematics, and you struggled. Calculus is very important for most math classes that you would take in the future, including quite a few classes that would be appropriate for someone with a statistics major. I was a math major in university and particularly liked probability and statistics and stochastic processes, but we were using calculus all over the place in these classes (some of which I did not take until graduate school). Calculus is also useful for some economics classes, as is linear algebra (which is a potential future math class for you – something that students typically usually would not take until university). Also, calculus is something that depends a great deal on its prerequisites (high school algebra, trigonometry, pre-calculus), all of which look to be things that you took a very long time ago.

I am wondering whether you should find some sort of summer classes next summer and retake or at least solidify your knowledge of all of the prerequisites for calculus, and then retake calculus starting your freshman year of university.

One daughter attended a small university, basically the Canadian equivalent of a Liberal Arts College (they do not use the “LAC” term, but have a few similar schools). She got a great education and I have become a big fan. She did successfully navigate a rather drastic change in her major at the end of her freshman year of university.

It sounds like UVA did the right thing in your case. By deferring you to RD they released you from the ED commitment and at least if you end up getting accepted they have given you the opportunity to rethink whether it is the right school for you.

I think that Swarthmore is a rather high reach ED2. To me it looks like acceptance might be possible, but is probably unlikely.

There are however a huge number of very good LACs. Hopefully you have applied to a few for which admissions is significantly more likely compared to Swarthmore College.

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You can study finance at small schools. Finance is not Econ and economics will be far more heavy math centric. You might want to re- think that. Finance is offered at many small schools - if you’d rather truly study that.

You dislike big schools but ED1 to UVA? Swat is known to be very demanding so are you sure that’s the right environment ? Did you apply to Pitt which is a fair sub in similar size or Miami of Ohio, Delaware, or Syracuse, three others of similar size ? Big is in the eye of the beholder but most consider UVA big

If you want finance, you might consider Bucknell, Susquehanna, Lehigh, Richmond, Babson, Bentley, Christopher Newport, Gettysburg, etc. - all excellent small schools that offer it, with Babson, Bentley, Bucknell and Richmond on most rankings that show best for job success and Babson (22), Bentley (25) and Richmond (28) on the College Transitions IB feeder list per capita - if that’s a concern.

I wish you luck but I don’t think Econ will be your right choice (I don’t know you but based on your math struggles) and I don’t see UVA as not big.

Best of luck in your apps. Hopefully you have a balanced list.

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I read back your old thread. You are trying to please parents.

I understand it’s cultural but they need to also understand that you are going to school.

Initially you discussed Michigan and Williams. Williams wasn’t happening.

Whether you go to Michigan or UVA or Pitt, Williams or Dickinson or Susquehanna, the common ingredient is you.

Study what you want, not what will get you into higher ranked.

Look in work places - tons of higher rank grads work for people who went to lower rank. Heck, I’ve got an MBA from a top 40 at the time and my boss has an undergrad - from a school I never heard of - W Georgia.

You’re not career safe at a school your parents perceive as strong nor are you doomed if you are at one they don’t.

When you look at any ranks on job success - you see those I mentioned, often ahead of the Ivies. I get that it’s hard but its your journey - not theirs.

The reality is - you are unlikely to be a top school candidate as you define it but no one has more data than LinkedIn on career success.

They rank Babson 7 - ahead of Stanford, Norhwestern and tons more

Bentley 15

Lehigh 17

Bucknell 21

Villanova 23

SMU 37

Trinity college 42

Richmond 44

Lafayette 48

I don’t think Trinity nor Laf have finance but these are more likely for you. And you don’t go in thinking transfer. You go into crush it and have a great life.

Large schools that fit you - 24 UIUC, 33 Purdue, 35 Miami Ohio, 40 Penn State, 47 Indiana.

The Wall Street Journal ranks Babson #2 behind Stanford and ahead of everyone else. Bentley #12, Loyola Maryland - bet you didn’t see that one coming is #19 and Swat is #24, Michigan 25, Lehigh 29, UVA 31 but easier to get into Delaware near equal at 38.

There’s so many great schools out there it’s unfortunate your parents have a narrow focus.

Truth is, once you stopped math, you likely no longer were a top school candidate. But you struggled so you took a rest it’s ok.

You’ll be great but it will be because of who you are - driven and dedicated.

Your parents will see that, in time
And no you didn’t make a mistake stopping…you went too fast and you were a bit out of your league and your mental health frayed best you got that under control.

And there are fantastic names that would love to have you. Forget the price tag on the privates - many have merit aid.

I hope you’ve balanced your list and that your parents will be proud of you no matter where you enroll

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you’ve gotten good analysis and things to think about from the posters so i won’t pile on. i realize you are planning on majoring in Econ/Stats but you have relatively weak science rigor compared to most who are applying to the tier of schools you are trying to get into (Swarthmore) - Swarthmore is elite and likely a harder admit that UVA ED1 and you are already got deferred. if you must ED2 (and i would caution against that due to its binding nature), you have a more realistic chance at the next tier down of LACs such as Carleton, Haverford, Wesleyan but it’s still not a given that you would be admitted. being from PA you should probably be familiar with Haverford, no? you have access to Swarthmore classes (as well as Bryn Mawr) through their consortium so if there are particular professors/classes you are interested in at Swarthmore, it might still be possible.

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i really want to go to a lac tho. do you think you could also give me some more realistic options than swarthmore(might still apply if im feeling risky). also thank you for your kind words of encouragement. im also hard on myself and kinda dissapointed for not working very hard… but im sure it will work out as you said.

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i do know haverford but i was thinking of just doing rd there… so it appears i have a low chance of getting into swarthmore… which is fine thank you for the honesty. but i want my ed to be the highest school so wouldnt it make sense to ed to a school where i probably wont get in? or is a tactical realistic more advised.

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I don’t think anyone would call Wesleyan a tier down from Swarthmore. They are academic peers even if Swarthmore has a lower admission rate.

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Economics and statistics as college majors will require math and math-heavy course work in college.

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There are lots of wonderful LACs out there to consider… but at least among my kids’ friends, Swarthmore has a reputation of being a relatively grindy LAC. I would wonder if it would be the right fit for someone who is hard on themselves for not working super hard?

I won’t suggest specific alternatives but I’m sure others here can make lots of great suggestions.

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I gave you some above.

Again, I think you need study finance vs. econ. If you struggle with math, you shouldn’t necessarily major in econ.

I think Swat in Econ could cripple you given your struggle and two years without.

So I’d look at the following and for finance and don’t turn your nose down just because you don’t know or like the name:

  1. Christopher Newport (it’s gorgeous) and Susquehanna as safe
  2. Bentley, Gettysburg, and Bucknell as Targts/High Targets
  3. Babson, W&M, Richmond as reaches

Can you go a little bigger - still, not big at all. U Denver, Ithaca and Marist would be safe. Elon and TCNJ would be likely. Lehigh and Rochester would be reaches.

From a smaller and fine POV, Christopher Newport is in VA (not far from W&M) - another worth trying.

It’s not my place to and you may disagree and that’s fine - but I’m uncomfortable with why you pivoted to econ - you assumed small schools don’t have finance and you assumed incorrectly - and it’s better suited for your struggles in math. Not to say it’s what you should major in but it’s less math centric.

Hope that helps.

PS - your parents should be proud of you period and there’s not a single school I mentioned that’s not a good school.

PPS - there are others I could name but assuming you want to stay in a somewhat tight geographical range. Let me know if that’s wrong. I did go to Denver (easy flight) and great finance rep.

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that’s fair - I don’t mean to imply one is getting a lower tier education at Wesleyan - but in the context of the OP’s search for a viable ED2 LAC, it would seem (to me) that there would be a better shot at ED’ing to what I called “next tier down” schools than Swarthmore (tier in the context of selectivity/rejectivity rather than education quality).

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if you love Swarthmore and would go there over every other school you’re applying to (including if you get into UVA in the RD round since you are technically deferred, not rejected) AND can feasibly pay for it, then you are within your right to ED2 there. Different people have differing views on how to view ED strategically. I do believe it is a reasonable approach to use the ED as a “shoot your shot” so long as you have a balanced list of other target/likely schools that you would be satisfied with. Just don’t get your hopes up too much and set yourself up for disappointment. Best of luck!

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Agreed 100% - if it’s the top school - but OP I do question - should it be? What will you study there. Unless you take some remedial math, I don’t see econ working out.

That you want an LAC but didn’t realize some had finance, I’d think you’d be wiser to pivot there - or or least not ED to a school that academically, may not have the right course of study for your interests.

So check all their majors before applying - because at least based on your hs coursework, econ is unlikely for you.

But as @jcpharm says, if it’s truly your top school, then go for it.

But don’t go for it because your parents want you in a top school - that’s the wrong reason and it will bite you in the tail end if you struggle and don’t finish.

Academics :: Swarthmore College

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LOL. Swarthmore may be harder to get into, but it’s ironically difficult to avoid Wesleyan-adjacent cultural references. It’s like when people started saying, “It was a perfect storm“ in the 1980s. :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

OP - IMHO, I think Swarthmore and Wesleyan are equally shot-worthy.

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You really do not need to apply ED anywhere at all. I would only recommend applying ED if two things are both true: (1) A particular school is clearly your top choice; (2) Either you are fine being full pay, or the NPC shows it as likely to be affordable.

We have not mentioned budget in this thread and I was sort of guessing or hoping that it might not be an issue for you. However, it appears that you do not have a clear top choice. You can apply RD to a number of LACs and just see where you get in. There really are a huge number of very good LACs, and you can do very well at any of a long list of them. If you ever get to the point of applying to graduate programs, then again you can do well and be a competitive applicant with a bachelor’s degree from any of a very wide range of schools. If you graduate with a bachelor’s and get a job almost anywhere, you will most likely find yourself working alongside coworkers who graduated from a wide range of schools.

I might add that between my wife, my two daughters, and I, and my siblings, none of us applied ED anywhere. We nonetheless went to very good universities and have done well. You do not need to apply ED at all and in your situation right now I do not think that I would.

Another important point: Rankings are mostly to sell magazines or to generate clicks on web pages. Rankings do not say anything about whether a school is a good fit for you or for me. Higher ranked schools are typically not necessarily “better”. In some cases they are just more academically challenging and/or more difficult to get admitted to. There is in some fields a shortage of jobs for recent PhD graduates, which means that very good PhD graduates will be taking jobs at a very wide range of schools, and will turn into very good professors. Also, some excellent and well known professors go to less well known schools for reasons such as liking the location and/or having a spouse that has a job in that area, or because housing is affordable there, or because there are interesting research opportunities there [One example is that there are some top experts in estuary biology at a small school in Nova Scotia, because that is where the most extreme estuaries are]. There are excellent professors and excellent classes and very good research and internship opportunities and very good students all over the place.

Unfortunately the LACs that I know best are either the really top ranked ones in New England (all of which would be a high reach for you), and the small primarily undergraduate universities in eastern Canada. With you coming from PA the schools that I know in Canada would be a long way to drive to get to a school that you have probably never heard of.

However, I agree with others that schools like Carleton and Haverford and Wesleyan are very good and very much worth considering. You might seriously consider applying to all of them. I do not think that you have missed the RD deadline for any of them yet. You might want to look at Dickinson, Franklin and Marshall, Gettysburg College, and so on. With a 3.85 GPA and a 1530 SAT you are a strong student and there are plenty of very good LACs that would be very happy to have you as a student.

You might want to make sure that you have applications in to at least two safeties before too much more time passes in this particular application season.

Regarding math, your best option at this point might be to get a tutor and see how much you can strengthen your abilities. I have a feeling that you just got on the wrong foot at some point and can bring this back together and do well. Putting in some extra effort to get back on track in math is going to be worth it over time, particularly for someone interested in economics and/or statistics.

I agree with other comments about economics using math. As one example, in graduate school I took one single non-math class, which was econometrics. Even as a math major, econometrics had me spending one or two Saturday afternoons taking a close look at the underlying math to make sure that I understood it sufficiently well. With math, having a good understanding of the concepts is important, and this can be important even when taking an economics class. I by the way liked econometrics quite a bit, although I didn’t do anything with it primarily just because I found a couple of other things that I also liked.

All of this takes me back to a question that might also have been glossed over on this thread: Do you already have applications in to at least two schools which are safeties for both admissions and affordability? If not, you need to get this done. If you do already have these two applications in, given your recent thoughts about preferring LACs, does this include two LACs that you would be happy attending (if not, there is still time to get applications in).

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Wesleyan-adjacent cultural references

call me ignorant but i have no idea what you’re talking about.

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I’m definitely not going to call you ignorant.

Check out this video, “shoot your shot hamilton” My Shot