Chance me for Williams, Washington and Lee, Mount Holyoke [international, 4.0 GPA, <$3k]

There are “feeder” type schools overseas which attract a middle class/upper middle class student body (in their own countries) and Adcom’s know this. Some of those kids will need aid- but not full freight. I would not extrapolate that schools which “spread around the aid” are not truly need blind. Colleges in the US know the state of play on the ground; they know which countries/cities/HS’s have kids who want to study in the US and can pay for much of it- but not all of it.

That’s doesn’t mean they aren’t need blind. It just means that admitting kids from these schools that have a track record of preparing their students for US style college educations, prepare transcripts that are easy to interpret, and attract kids from families with resources are kind of a no-brainer admissions-wise. It’s efficient, it helps craft the class you want, and it doesn’t take weeks and months to interpret the kids application. And there’s often a guidance counselor (whatever it’s called in that country) on the other end of the email/phone who can help if need be.

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So we have data from the seven colleges that in fact said they were need blind and meets need for Internationals as of the 2023-24 cohort. Here are their percentages of Internationals receiving aid and average International award:

Amherst 84.3%/$81,202
Bowdoin 66.4%/$77,156
Dartmouth 69.3%/$81,378
Harvard 72.2%/$75,088
MIT 75.8%/$72,712
Princeton 75.1%/$78,606
Yale 61.5%/$80,285

There are some interesting variations, but overall I would say it is obvious that being need blind and meets need for Internationals is typically going to lead to a relatively high percentage of Internationals with aid, and a relatively high average amount of aid per International on aid, as one would expect.

What I think is interesting and important for Internationals to know is that although there is a rough consistency among the need blind colleges, there is much less consistency among need aware colleges, even when they say they are meets need.

Mount Holyoke, the college we were discussing, does not claim to be need blind for Internationals, so I am definitely not accusing them of doing anything dishonest. I am more just trying to observe how they actually use being need aware. And their comparable numbers are 54.4% and $52,109. So a significantly lower average award, and then a somewhat lower percentage of Internationals on aid.

Let’s compare that to their 5C colleague Smith. For Smith, the numbers are 43.5% and $79,023. So Smith is demonstrably not spreading their International aid budget around as much as Mount Holyoke in the way I am defining it. Indeed, Smith has an average award similar to the need blind colleges, but it has a significantly lower percentage of Internationals getting aid at all, which means Smith is using being need aware primarily just to be more selective for needy Internationals generally, but not specifically as to very high need Internationals. Whereas Mount Holyoke appears to be a little more generous as to needy Internationals generally, but conversely appears to be drawing more of a distinction between high need Internationals and low-to-medium need Internationals.

Now of course I have no idea what actual mechanisms they are using behind the scenes to achieve these results. Like, I don’t know if they are doing this on an individual level, using policies which predictably have these effects on a group level, or some combination of both. But since neither Smith nor Mount Holyoke claim to be need blind for Internationals, they are free to do it however they like.

For example, you may be right that Mount Holyoke is simply favoring applicants from the sorts of International secondary schools where they know the applicants are more likely to be somewhere in the full pay or low-to-medium need categories, and not the high need category.

And for that matter, I suspect to some extent the need blind colleges do this too–they certainly do something similar domestically–and I agree that if they are doing that just for academic preparedness reasons, then whatever effect that has on the percentages of successful applicants with high need would be incidental, not intentional.

But we also know from the statistics above that whatever effect that might be having at those officially need blind colleges, it is still resulting in a range of average awards and percentage of Internationals getting aid that are much higher than Mount Holyoke’s.

So this cannot be the full story at Mount Holyoke. And again, Mount Holyoke does not claim to be need blind anyway. So even if, hypothetically, Mount Holyoke is favoring applicants from such secondary schools more than usual in part for budgetary reasons, well, they never said they wouldn’t.

Oh :pensive: thanks for the clarification!

ok, so I might have interpreted this wrong cuz this is all very…smart, but I’m assuming this part means Smith leans toward admitting fewer, less needy students and helping them generously, while Mount Holyoke casts a wider net but doesn’t prioritize the highest-need cases. I’m asking because I’ll be applying to smith immediately I’m done with MHC, W&L, and Umiami (be sending in my Miami app today or tomorrow), and I just wanted to know if my aid level would make me get rejected from Smith (amidst other things, obviously).

Also, is it possible to just…lie on my COF or ISFAA or anything about the amount of aid I’ll be needing if I’d be willing to take out loans on my part? (Like loans in Nigerian currency from Nigerian banks because then naira value would fall over time and it’d be easier to pay back in dollars (to naira)). I don’t know, you and a few others just sound like you guys are in finance or something :pensive: and this is just like an assumption on my part cuz I don’t even know how student loans work (cuz its not a thing here) so pardon me if I sound stupid :grin:

You can’t take loans for the amount it’d make a difference.

My understanding of the above is that Smith admits fewer students but they include higher need students whose need is met, whereas MHC admits more students with varying levels of need. Both primarily admit full pay or nearly full pay students.

oh :pensive: what about for schools like illinois welseyan where they are needblind for students that can pay up to 30k? If you took loans out to be able to pay that 30k, would the school look at it as though you were paying that 30k out of pocket and then consider your application regardless of need? Or is that wrong.

Thank you for the clarification! :grin:

You can ask this question specifically of Illinois Wesleyan, but I expect they will want to see at least $30K USD in the bank at the time of application, demonstrating an ability to pay that. They might want to see all four years of that $30K, which some schools do.

I don’t know how loans work in Nigeria, but $30K is a lot of money and I doubt you, the student, would be able to borrow that much without a co-signer. Nor would I recommend you take out that much in loans, as the monthly payments will be quite high for many years after graduation. You can estimate your expected monthly salary after graduation working in Nigeria and your monthly loan payment (using Nigerian loan term/amounts/interest rates)…and that will likely show you taking that much in loans wouldn’t make financial sense.

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What would a typical monthly or annual salary be for a recent graduate in Economics in Nigeria?

In any case, right now, getting loans may indebt you to what we call a “loan shark” (because odds are solid banks wouldn’t let a minor borrow money) and you really really don’t want that.

Anyway, 30k×4=120k and no bank would let your parents borrow that much based on their current income.

So the solution isn’t a loan for college. The solution is either a US meet need college that admits you or another college elsewhere.

I understand your plight - you can’t really stay in Nigeria. But there are other solutions.

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OP- big hug.

You can’t get a student visa on the basis of “my family is going to try to get a loan of some kind” financing. I know it stinks- but that’s the US immigration system right now. So it’s not just a question of “can I figure out how to get the money for four years”, it’s the reality of “without a visa I can’t enter the country”.

You sound like a terrific student-- and human- but any plan that involves uncertain financing or “I’ll figure it out down the road” isn’t viable.

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So the sort of analysis I was doing suggests Smith is actually a (relatively) good choice for you among the possible need aware/meets need colleges, because we know they are willing to admit a decent number of high need cases. As with any need aware college, you will face heightened competition to be selected for one of those offers, but at least it is possible.

I would not advise trying to commit fraud in your applications, including because it is unethical, and they will likely require documentation, and if they think you committed fraud they may well rescind your offer.

Finally, I will note many US parents of recent college-bound kids end up sounding like financial professionals because financing a US college education can be very complicated! But this community is here to help share what we have learned.

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Hell I’m not even close to 18 :walking_woman:t3:

Your right :pensive: i don’t know, it came to me and made sense at the time. I’m currently working on my apps and looking for safeties in other countries so hopefully something works out. I seriously appreciate the help I get on this app but I wish there was someone here that could just help me navigate the financial aspects of this thing. Like someone who’s very familiar with how other low income students from Nigeria financed stuff but you can’t afford those people without paying an arm and a leg so this and youtube is all I have. I’m not complaining tho, I’m very grateful for the opportunity i recognized on time and for the help I get through CC :grin:

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Thank you :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

I needed to be brought down to earth sooner or later. At least now I’m realistic enough to know that even if I could figure things out or something, that won’t hold up in front of immigration or anything. Thanks!

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Oh :grin: Thanks!

I needed the laugh I got from this, thank you:pray:t3:

I forgot about this :sob:

As I’ve seen…and realized :sneezing_face:

And its much appreciated :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

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@MYOS1634 Would Education USA be a good resource to give this student guidance?

I don’t know whether it’s even in the realm of possibility for her to go to Lagos. :neutral_face: If she can, she can make an appointment, although it may be a bit late :thinking: but still worth a try.

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Ma’am ticket is 240k for ONE person and I’m not even sure if its one or both ways, that’s almost as much as my SAT booking :sob:

Education USA Abuja is 85$, I laughed- that’s 130k FOR NOW, in the next week it’ll probably be like 140 150k so no education usa for me :frowning_face: :grin:

Thank you and @DramaMama2021 for the suggestion tho!

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It was a valid suggestion but yeah, that’s what I feared when I wrote “in the realm of possibility”.
:hugs::hugs:
You’re doing well with the resources you have. :muscle::muscle: Keep going, hopefully things will be alright. :pray::crossed_fingers:

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Sorry for not being in “the know” and I hope my suggestion did not read as insensitive. I was genuinely trying to think of local resources for you, but I don’t have any experience with Education USA and didn’t realize the expense. Please don’t take offense.

Keep coming back here and getting advice (the good and the bad! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye::stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:). Sharing your journey will not only help you but also is a way to pay it forward for future readers.

Sending positive vibes your way!! :heart:

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Thank you :sob: idk y the entire college admission process has kids paying to prove that their poor :sob: like css 16$, EduUSA kiterally said helping kids from low income backgrounds bla bla bla and then their going to have an $85 dollar sticker price like what :smiley:

They should just say their helping the rich get richer, nobody will be offended,I’m not complaining, I obviously know that they have to have prices along with their services but absolutely no “low income” students are going to have 85$ to pay for said services so they shouldn’t put it in their google search pop up thing for clickbait :roll_eyes: :yawning_face:

Thank you :sob: :purple_heart: :purple_heart:

It did not on god :sob:

Oh ma’am I’m not offended in the least possible way :sob: :smile: I’m going to take a wild guess and assume (sorry if this is wrong) that there’s a…system that at least considers low income or poor people over there. Its sadly just not thne same here but like it doesn’t even phase me cuz 15 years in the same useless government will do that to you. So i’m not offended or anything I promise :purple_heart:

I will :smile: I’m grateful I even found this platform so I could start relatively early on really modifying my app.

Its the end goal :sneezing_face:

Appreciate it :sob: Thank you :purple_heart:

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