Chance me, junior looking at top LACs [NC residnet, 4.0 UW, 1520]

Chance Me / Match Me
1

Demographics

  • US domestic (citizen)
  • Current state is NC, but 9th-10th was in TX
  • Average public high school
  • I might count as a legacy to Harvard? (my mom went there, but she doesn’t donate or anything)

Cost Constraints / Budget
No idea, but my parents say not to worry about that

Intended Major(s)
Not entirely sure, maybe something like math, physics, philosophy, or chemistry (and double major or minor).

GPA, Rank, and Test Scores

  • Unweighted HS GPA: 4.0
  • Weighted HS GPA: Not sure yet. I just started this school as a junior and it has a totally different system, so I’m not sure how they’ll count my 9th-10th grade classes. The semester I just completed would probably be a 5.0, because I took all APs and have all As
  • Class Rank: Same kind of situation as weighted HS GPA
  • ACT/SAT Scores: 1520 (730rw, 790m)

List your HS coursework

My old hs didn’t have APs or honors, so this might look a little wonky. Because I moved states, I have to retake and do a bunch more history and social studies classes so that I can graduate.

  • English: English 1, English 2, AP Lang, AP Lit (haven’t taken yet)
  • Math: Algebra 1 (8th grade) Geometry, Algebra II, AP Precalculus, AP Stats, AP Calculus (both AB+BC, haven’t taken yet)
  • Science: Biology, Chemistry, APES, AP Physics 1 (haven’t taken yet, school doesn’t offer Physics II or Physics C)
  • History and social studies: World Geography, United States History 1 (dual credit), TX Govt (dual credit), APUSH, AP World History, AP Gov (haven’t taken yet), Econ & Personal finance honors (haven’t taken yet)
  • Language other than English: Spanish 1 (8th grade), Spanish II, Spanish III honors, Spanish IV honors (haven’t taken yet)
  • Visual or performing arts: Art Appreciation (dual credit)
  • Other academic courses: CTE Engineering (9th+10th)

Awards
1st Place in UIL Calculator Applications at district (9th+10th grade) - Advanced to regionals
2nd Place in UIL Mathematics at district (10th grade) - Advanced to regionals
6th Place in UIL Number Sense (10th grade) - Advanced to regionals as an alternate
Top ten in UIL Spelling (10th grade), 2nd place team
All A Honor Roll (9th+10th grade)
College Board School Recognition Award (10th)

Extracurriculars
My extracurriculars are a mess because of the move, the lack of clubs at both my old school and my current school, and my introvertedness

  • UIL Academics (9th+10th), competed in Calculator Applications, Mathematics, Number Sense, and Spelling
  • Volunteering at a home for refugees (10th)
  • Volunteer tutoring elementary schoolers and high schoolers on SAT math (10th+11th)
  • Science program at a local university (11th)
  • Volunteering at a local church by cooking and serving food to people in need (11th)
  • Model UN (11th) and Sunrise (11th), but I don’t know if I should count those because I’m not really involved

I was also in this study in 11th grade that took up a significant amount of my time, but I don’t know if that really counts as an extracurricular

Essays/LORs/Other
Haven’t done started all that yet, but I think I have a unique and compelling story to tell that could make my essays interesting

Schools
I’m probably applying RD for everything unless a school offers EA (I don’t want to ED anywhere), I also might not be able to apply to all of these colleges anyway

Reaches: Harvard, Wesleyan, Vassar, Bowdoin, Williams, Amherst, Hamilton, Haverford, Davidson, Middlebury
Targets: UNC Chapel Hill, UNC Wilmington (honors college), Macalester, St. Olaf, Elon (honors college), University of Rochester, Bryn Mawr, Carleton, Mount Holyoke, Smith, Agnes Scott

I have automatic admission to my safeties, so I don’t need chancing on them

2

Congrats to you - it does appear your mom is a legacy. You’re a strong applicant.

I could see you getting into all your targets - including UNCW Honors assuming your essay holds.

If you decide you want physics, I’d add U of Arizona as a big school safety. If you decide you want chem, I’d add U of Delaware as a big school safety. Or just add NC State which will be strong in both - as a safety.

If you truly want an LAC, I think you get into all you listed in targets with Mt. Holyoke and Agnes Scott very safe (and Agnes Scott will deliver financially even though you don’t need it). It wouldn’t suprise me that you get into a reach or two as well.

Best of luck.

3

As an opinion on your listed choices, I believe your range of academic interests suggests that you may appreciate colleges with open curricula, such as Amherst, Hamilton and Smith.

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You appear very competitive and so I don’t see any reason not to apply to a healthy list of highly-selective LACs. I might suggest cutting a few Reaches from your list (if you haven’t visited yet, but can, that might help), but that is not critical as long as you have thought seriously about why each of those colleges would be a good fit for you, and you a good fit for them.

If I was going to offer any substantive advice at all, I would just think carefully about your Target and Likely choices. With your credentials, I would think you could be very competitive for significant merit and/or honors programs, and that opens up a lot of possibilities that could provide surprisingly competitive when making a final decision (even if your parents are saying not to worry, it is a rare family that doesn’t at least appreciate a nice merit offer).

This isn’t a criticism of your Targets–they make sense to me through that lens. But again you might see if between visits and other investigations you can cut that back a bit, while keeping an open mind to adding new ideas as they might emerge.

And you don’t have to share your Likelies if you don’t want to, but my point is I think you are in a position where you can have Likelies you actually really like.

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Hi! I am planning on applying to the honors colleges at my state schools like ECU, WCU, App State, UNCA, UNC Charlotte, etc. I don’t really know how competitive they are. I’m also trying to visit several of the schools on my, but it’s really hard because they’re so far away and my family is so busy. I think I’m touring a few during spring break. But thank you so much for your advice! I appreciate that you took the time to comment.

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Hi! Thank you for the suggestions. I thought that an open curriculum sounds cool, but I still don’t know exactly how they work or how they look for grad school. I’m planning on researching that though, so thank you!

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Hi! Thank you for the suggestions. I’ll look into those schools. I would really like a LAC, but I still am thinking about the cost, especially because I want to go to grad school. It would be nice to get some merit money, so I’ll look further into Agnes Scott.

I was just curious, are many of my reaches unrealistic? It’s hard to find out how likely they are, because I don’t know of anyone from either of the regions I am from applying to them.

Thank you for taking the time to comment!

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I think NC would still be considered an underrepresented state at all the NESCACs. So, that’s another factor in your favor. It may even be enough to make up for a certain lack of heft in your ECs. Be aware that several of them, including Wesleyan, receive more women applicants than men. But I agree with what others have said; it’s hard to deny that you are a strong candidate.

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9

If you care about cost, then you might want to redo your list.

As I noted, I think your reaches are reachable - and I could see one or two happening. Which that is, I don’t know.

You noted - No idea, but my parents say not to worry about that - but if you want low cost and LACs, your list isn’t great.

For example, assuming you are full pay, you will be full pay ($90K) + a year at your reaches. You will get money (likely) at Mac, certainly at St. Olaf, and potentially at Smith, Mount Holyoke, and definitely at Agnes Scott.

Agnes Scott says:

100% of full-time undergraduate students at Agnes Scott receive scholarship or grant aid.

Merit-based scholarships range from $25,000 to $32,000 per year, with additional special scholarship opportunities ranging from $500 to $5,000. Through the $100K+ Promise, every first-time, full-time undergraduate student will receive at least $25,000 per year in renewable merit-based scholarships, totaling $100,000 over four years. In addition, students awarded the Marvin B. Perry Presidential Scholarship will receive full tuition, room, and board.

I missed Carleton - it’s a reach but a reasonable reach.

If you want lower cost, you should swap in excellent schools like Kalamazoo, Wooster, Allegheny, Wheaton (MA), Connecticut College, Furman, Rhodes and more. Grinnell is a top ranked school like yours that gives merit aid - not a ton, but some. Same with Franklin & Marshall. St. Mary’s of Maryland (a public school) is also reasonably priced.

If you want grad school, look at this list - on the right side shows the PhD per capita. You might not want a PhD but just to give context.

For Chem, top schools include Juniata, Kalamazoo, Allegheny, Wooster, Hendrix, F&M.

For Physics, the same + St. Mary’s Maryland.

Philosophy doesn’t show.

In the end, budget matters if it matters - so while your parents told you what they said (some of your list will be $350-400K just for undergrad and may not impact where you get in for Masters) - so it’s fair to let them know that and then a Masters cost more. Some don’t realize what schools cost or think they have merit aid (much of your list doesn’t).

So given your concern - have that chat with them - are they comfortable spending $350K + another $200 for a Masters or do they have a $ figure in mind. WIth your stats (not your list but your stats), it can be as low as $20K a year and as high as $95K and lots of room in between.

So you always need to define a budget before creating a list.

Best of luck.

Top Feeders to Ph.D. Programs

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In essence, colleges with open curricula require you to fulfill major requirements as at any other school, but allow greater freedom of choice outside of major requirements. In such an environment, you could sample widely across academic disciplines, particularly as a first and second year student. As you progress, a preferred combination of potential majors and minors would be open to you in a form sufficient to satisfy the expectations of any graduate school.

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Hi! My old city in TX would probably be considered very underrepresented, even if my state is not. Will colleges consider my old city as well? I feel like that would make me stand out more, especially considering I took my SAT before I moved and my school and the public schools in the city have averages in the 800s-900s. I realize that my ECs are not very great, so I’m trying to figure out how else to stand out. I also heard about the gender ratios of LACs, especially at places like Vassar. It’s something I’ll have to keep in mind. Thank you for taking the time to comment.

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Mostly, “open curriculum” means no or very few general education requirements. In only a few cases (e.g. Evergreen State) does it mean that no major is required.

Graduate schools typically are not so concerned about general education, but each type of program typically has expectations for undergraduate preparation for their program. For example, math PhD programs like to see upper level rigorous proof based math courses in real and complex analysis, algebra, geometry and topology, logic, etc. as part of ones undergraduate study. Some have opinions about undergraduate math departments that can increase or decrease the likelihood of admission – unfortunately, it is not easy for most high school seniors to find out which undergraduate math departments are held in higher or lower regard for this purpose.

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Hi! I know that almost all the schools I am looking at are really expensive for full pay. I think that we might qualify for some need based aid, but I’m not entirely sure. That’s why I have all the state schools that I’m applying to. But the place my parents work at will start paying part of the tuition after we live here for a few years, and they already gave them some money for the first few years. But my parents will not name a budget.

I would hope to get the full ride at Agnes Scott, but I don’t know if I’m competitive enough. There were also some full ride programs I have been looking at elsewhere. I had Kalamazoo, Wooster, Conn College, Rhodes, Grinnell, etc. on my list, but I’ve been trying to cut down on my list of colleges. Do you think it would be worth swapping out some of those schools for others on my list? And do the colleges you listed give good merit aid?

Thank you for the information. I’ll be sure to check out everything you linked.

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Thank you for the information! That does sound really interesting and fun.

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Thank you for replying. I’ll be sure to look at the math departments carefully when I apply to schools. I’m not entirely sure of my life plans yet, so I might not do a PhD. I hope I can explore what I like and dislike in college to get a better sense.

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Maybe add W&L and the Johnson.

I wouldn’t worry about what you can’t - which is - is your state or city, etc. underrepresented?

You might or might not get a boost. But that’s not a reason to pick a school. The reason to pick a school is that it fits, including budget.

At some point, your parents need to give you a budget. Let’s say Carleton comes back at $60K in the net price calculator (it’s $90K MSRP). Can your parents afford it or are they willing to afford it?

If not, why apply. btw - Carleton is on a trimester system. Does that matter?

Did you simply pick names or have you visited any of these? I ask because maybe you have preference - urban vs. rural, etc. You have a mix here, etc.

So I would pick schools:

  1. Based on budget - if they’re comfortable paying whatever, than all are in. But too many parents tell kids - apply wherever - and then you find out you can’t go - what was the point. They 100% need to address this upfront, as uncomfortable as it may be.

  2. When you have budget concerns, the more the merrier - but the more that are budget friendly. So yes, I’d apply to your list - and some/many likely have free apps and no extra essays.

  3. Set up an email address - chocobean@gmail.com, etc. Use that only for college admissions…nothing else. Go to each school and sign up for information, their emails. Some will send you app waivers next fall.

  4. Some will track demonstrated interest. You can see who tracks in section C7 of the common data set (google common data set + school name). Carleton doesn’t track but St. Olaf says it’s important. In their case, open emails, play videos, even if you walk away.

  5. St. Olaf has a religious component/requirement. Most will say the classes are academic but they are religiously based - and yes, few Lutherans and many everyone go there - but is that an issue?

If you feel in your heart of hearts budget will be an issue and they’re not going to be transparent with you, I would then argue the Kalamazoo, Allegheny’s of the world are more important than your reaches.

So if you’re going to get app overload, I’d cull the no merit schools first - to protect yourself. Because if your parents won’t give you a budget or fill out NPCs, you want to have safeties - and by that I mean LAC safeties, not just large school safeties.

I’d also love to see you add College of Charleston. Why ? Not only will you get into Honors but I think you have a great chance at the Charleston Fellows program which is a small cohort of studs within Honors. My daughter was one and we got free tuition and money back. Kids who get into Ivies, Vandy, Rice, etc are in the cohort. It’s a reach (the Fellows, not the school)- but not unreasonable given your stats. The school is very urban, so much closer to Agnes Scott or Mac (more urban than both) and very different than a St. Olaf or Hamilton - so that goes back to - what do you want in a school besides a high ranking in US News?

You can cull that way too.

by the way, K (Kalamazoo) has the K Plan - which they claim is sort of open - so it hits high PhD rate so you know it’s respected even if you just do a Masters or do nothing., going to be huge merit (maybe $40K-ish cost), and is open. You may be one of few from NC or Texas…but that’s the trade off. So if you want open, it should be your “safety” LAC in my opinion.

“Our flexible curriculum allows you to explore your interests or immediately dive into your existing passions. Be a physics major with a history minor or a psychology major with a concentration in community and global health. With minimal general education requirements, no pressure to declare a major until your sophomore year, and with 32 majors, 22 minors and 13 concentrations to choose from, you will have the time and opportunity to find your niche—or niches!”

Good luck.

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Others have explained open curriculum, I’m just chiming in to say for that list of schools (Amherst, Smith, Hamilton), grad schools are not concerned that they are open curriculum. They are well known schools with a quality education and the majors are intended to set up requirements that would not pose an issue for grad school admissions due to open curriculum. If, after you research open curriculum and like it. Brown is the gold standard of open curriculum schools in my opinion. So, worth considering in the reach category. That said, you don’t need more reaches and your list of open curriculums already on your list are fantastic.

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I slightly disagree with this point based on what OP has said. OP needs to make sure the parents are willing to pay the full cost of the most expensive school (or whatever the NPC says their cost is for that school plus a buffer), but I don’t think they necessarily need to give the kid a budget. We have told our kid she does not need to worry about the cost. We have not given her a budget. We are fortunate that we can pay the full cost of the most expensive schools (almost $100k per year) with no loans to her or us and no change in lifestyle. But we have not gotten into a budget with her. We’d still love merit (which she has gotten at a few), but we 100% want her to choose the school that is best for her. If my kid got on here and did one of these chance me’s, I would not want people getting on here and pressing her to get a budget out of us. Even if she said she’d like to not have to pay full. OP needs to make sure parents can afford what they want, but they don’t need a budget necessarily if the parents said don’t worry about it. Some parents don’t want their kids all in their financial business.

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I understand - full pay is wide open - as you’ve done.

But OP has expressed concern - and we’ve seen many a time when parents say it’s open, and then a kid gets in and can’t go.

But I did note - if you have concerns (that’s the operable word - if), make sure to include those budget busters - in case - this way all bases are covered.

OP wants to cover them with UNC or UNCW - but given they prefer an LAC, I’d ensure to have the lower cost LACs - so at least that option is there as needed.

But everyone needs to understand their budget situation - whether full or limited. I read this as more - they’re never going to understand it as the parents might be keeping it closed to the vest - as many do - hence my suggestion of including lower cost schools (Furman, Rhodes, Agnes Scott, K, Allegheny, etc).

But I’d love OP to think deeper too - about environment, calendar (Carleton on a trimester, etc). They don’t need 10 budget busters but a few - just in case. And hopefully all their apps are to schools that “fit” vs. just are high ranking - because environment matters. Do you want to be in a town where you can walk to things (F&M) or in the sticks, etc.

Hope that makes sense.

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They have Agnes Scott on their list. As you said, and I know to be true, Agnes Scott will be relatively low cost for this student for an LAC (worst case scenario at Agnes Scott for them is under $40k per year for this student and likely well below that). So, they have low cost LAC covered in my opinion. Not to mention the others already on their list that will likely offer them good merit. I don’t think OP needs to focus their time chasing more high merit schools given what is on their list and what they have said about budget.

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