Chance Me/Match me for Philosophy Pre-law [4.0UW, 1570 SAT, HS Senior, NJ] ["Parents willing to pay full price to reaches, otherwise looking for significant merit aid"]

Chance Me / Match Me
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If they are, as they noted later, not wanting debt and law school - then 100% yes. That conversation has happened earlier.

But language just came up - the original was Philosophy - and Rutgers (in-state) is near tops as is Pitt (not as cheap).

So if they truly have a budget, then yes - because you need to build a list based on budget - no different than my $50K budget (but full pay kid) - couldn’t apply to the Cornell’s a Gtowns because of it - but could apply to W&L because it could get to cost (she got in but at $81K) it came right off - as was known.

If they don’t have a budget, then no. But too many budget driven kids simply apply to schools that make zero sense - because they like the name. That name is likely not going to pay back the monthly payments for 10+ years.

Most kids who say - I got into schools I can’t afford - it’s because they put name ahead of cost and it should be the other way around, especially if you are thinking law school, because you can go from most any undergrad to any top law school.

The student is exceptional and came with a prestige driven list - and that’s ok. But the tradeoff to said list, if they choose one of those schools, is likely significant debt if they attend law school. If you read up from the first few posts, there was a lot of discussion on this.

The student had mentioned not wanting law school debt - so when I hear about future visits to non merit schools vs. merit schools, I cringe. Or if, and it was asked, will the student go to $35K Rutgers or $90k+ Cornell and the answer is Rutgers, then that’s another reason to optimize for schools that you would consider vs. schools that my academic record would justify. In essence, that fine academic record will bring money at many schools - so it’s still being utilized. Maybe it’s F&M instead of Swat - but that affordability at F&M would be because of that academic record….for the same reason, so many Southern schools are loaded with NMFs - they “buy” in the high stat students that have their pick of schools otherwise.

I’m not OP so I can’t answer - but just adding to previous discussions - where it appeared to be an aversion to significant debt.

Thanks

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Hi everyone! I talked with my dad again about finances and he basically said that he wants me to not worry too much about finances when applying, although it depends on the school. Right now the plan is a few very selective schools(eg princeton/stanford/yale), plus two other T20s that I like the most. Bryn Mawr is off the list and Cornell is 50/50 (right now is a likely no). I do think it depends on the other offers I get, and I will ask a little bit more about student life to some of my friends who go to/got into Cornell abt why they chose it. I will also keep my parents updated on the schools on my list so that expectations about what they would be okay with paying or not are set before applications/acceptances come out.

Rutgers will be staying on my list (in-state + good philosophy program + good record at my school), so is UPitt. I will continue to look at schools that offer strong merit scholarships that have programs which fit my interest for some more financially safe options. → ik graduating w a 4.0 + no debt is better in the long run for law

I’m still considering law but I’m not certain yet (job market is changing and my interests may shift before I finish undergrad). I do plan on looking for internships/shadowing opportunities this summer so I can get a better sense of whether or not the field is right for me.

Anyways. I think my main priority is keeping my options open with 1) some higher-ranked schools my parents would be open to paying for, and 2) some schools that would be more affordable via merit aid should I decide to pursue law school/any other kind of graduate degree. I would really love to be able to explore my options once I’m in college with more freedom/resources than hs!

I will keep you guys updated on how things go :))) I genuinely appreciate all of the advice given in this thread so far!

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You may want to ask him directly if Rutgers and Pittsburgh are schools that he is willing to pay for. You may want to ask for each school you may apply to, in order to avoid wasted applications.

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He said Rutgers in state price would be totally fine. Pitt would depend on aid offered (so we’ll see) but he is generally okay with the idea of going to pitt

I will definitely check each one w them before I apply :slight_smile:

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Why are Cornell and BM off ? BM has merit. it’s fine to remove both just curious why.

There are many types of law. Hopefully you can shadow someone who practices areas in with your interests. Other types might be wasted in regards to shadowing. I’m guessing some type of social work might be worth exploration too over the next few years given your social justice bent. Organizations such as the IRC might be worth a look to see what types of folks work there.

I can’t imagine that there won’t be a need for lawyers. But like most professions, duties evolve.

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It means that you need to assess reach / match / likely / safety based on the chance of getting sufficient scholarship or financial aid, not the chance of admission.

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It was kinda difficult for me to find how much in scholarships Bryn Mawr gives/how competitive it is :frowning: I saw on their website it caps at 45k and the total cost of tuition/room/board seems to be like 87k? I guess I could still apply and see what happens? Otherwise I do quite like the school itself!!

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Yes for sure!! I would love to be able to check out the social work area.

What’s the IRC? :0

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Mmmmm I see I see that makes a lot of sense!! I feel like it’s also difficult because most schools don’t rlly release their process of how this kind of scholarships are calculated so I’m not sure how to best calculate my chances of receiving aid…

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The way this should work this - but it’s a bit odd because you have multiple price points - but you set up a budget. You ensure you have a 100% will meet - which is Rutgers. Then you have a Pitt. If it’s $60K and your budget is $45K and you don’t get $15K, then it’s off - period, end of story. But - it’s a worthy app because it could hit.

Then you simply don’t apply to schools that cannot hit. Your deviation here is you still want to apply to high level names.

To answer your other questions:

IRC = the International Rescue Committee. In this case, I believe confused posters. There’s a pre-med student who wants to work with refugees and knowing your social justice bent, I confused you. So Social Work may not be for you. Not sure your “international” interests .

Bryn Mawr, per the 24-25 Common Data set, gave 63 merit offers (of 380 kids) averaging $5438. I have a feeling this is in error though. They show for the school that 426 received $53,735 on average. So - their data definitely isn’t correct - and you can check with them. I’m looking at section H2A rows N and O in the CDS.

Here’s a sheet from them - but you might call and ask. Their CDS can’t be right.

If it’s women’s collges that interest you, Agnes Scott appears to be very aggressive and has a very strong reputation - so likely will be amongst the most budget friendly of all female schools. Like Bryn Mawr, Agnes Scott is in a consortium so you can take classes at schools like Emory and Ga Tech but the distance isn’t quite as close. But not overly far - and they may have shuttles - you can check.

UG_IncomingCohort_FinancialAid_2024.pdf

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Avoiding debt is highly important here, because social work often means needing a professional degree (more cost and time) and is not that well paid. That is, unless you want to be the default social worker of last resort (police officer).

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Small update– I got into NSLI-Y Russian Summer!! I will be spending 7 weeks abroad this summer in Kyrgyzstan with a host family + 120 hours of formal Russian language learning :))) It’s fully funded by the US State Department and we receive a stipend as well!! Super excited!!

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Congrats. They (state dept) also designate Russian as a Flagship Language. You might consider a Language Flagship program - they come with aid and maybe even a job. You may not love the names but these grads will kick butt. UGA, Indiana, Portland State….if of interest.

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WOAHH AWESOME!! Russian Overseas Capstone Program :00

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Hi all!! Given that it’s senior year, I wanted to give some updates.

Ended up getting all 5’s for my junior year APs, so currently have all 5s in my 8 APs. This year I’m taking AP Physics, Lit, Macroeconomics, Calc BC, Stat, and Chinese, for a total of 14 APs through my high school time.

Got some more awards. Keeping my robotics state champions, but otherwise I’m adding: 1) Co-author publication forthcoming next spring in a well-respected social science academic journal 2) Debate tournament wins 3) John Locke Essay Competition Shortlist 4) National Merit Semifinalist (only one in my school). AP Scholar can be figured out based on my scores, and I placed my cultural award into my Asian Cultures EC.

I know there was a lot of talk about budgeting earlier in the thread. Over the past couple months, my parents have told me to not worry about money at all and are fine with full-pay to the schools on my list. So cost is not an issue for me.

Also refined my ECs:

  1. Debate
  2. Robotics
  3. NSLI-Y Scholarship
  4. Caretaking grandmother
  5. NACLO Linguistics Olympiad
  6. Freelance art business and big art market forum moderator
  7. Social Justice club & tutoring
  8. Asian Cultures Club & Chinese exchange trip translator
  9. Science and Math league
  10. Summer camp counselor

[Brief refresher of other information: 1570 SAT, 4.0 UW GPA, Philosophy major, 4 years in English, Math, Lab science, Social Science, and Language. NJ Suburban.]

Right now I’m just focusing on my essays! I’ve decided to REA Princeton. Rutgers, Pitt, and Bryn Mawr remain safeties/targets. Unfortunately, I’m not able to go for the W&L Johnson scholarship due to Princeton’s REA requirements. I think I do want to be somewhere surburban, so W&L may be too rural for me - so I’m also dropping/deprioritizing Williams and to some extent Amherst. Swarthmore is only 30 minutes from Philly so I still really like Swarth. I’ve dropped UIUC and Emory. I may ED2 Vanderbilt (visited in the spring and I really loved the school and Nashville itself), but we shall see! I’ve also added Grinnell and UNC to my list. I’m considering applying to University of Alabama for its generous NMSF package - would I have to apply via the Common App too?

I think Rutgers is a school I will consider greatly given its exceptional philosophy department and that it’s in-state. I would also be able to graduate a year early from AP credits which would be great.

I am also applying for the UK schools! So - Oxford, LSE, Edinburgh, UCL, and Warwick via the UCAS application due Oct 15. Oxford has another test to complete later on (plus interviews), so that will add more to my application timeline.

I don’t know if I am 100% sure on going to law school, so I’ll try to keep my options open especially with universities that let you declare your major in sophomore year.

Right now I’m just focusing on keeping my grades up and keeping up with my ECs. Debate will probably be one of the most time-consuming ones since I’m trying to revamp the entire structure with more tournaments and practice times. That doesn’t leave too much time for my essay writing - I’ve mostly been spending my weekends on that while doing my schoolwork on weekdays. Hopefully I will be able to finish all the essays I wished to write.

Would really appreciate any insight/advice so far! I really appreciate all the help I’ve received throughout this thread and it’s helped me a lot in my decisions.

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Rutgers is a nice “safety” in-state option if you can graduate with Phi Beta Kappa honors. You will surely need this if you end up aiming for a T5 or T10 law school 3 or 4 years from now.

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Thank you so much! I actually haven’t heard of Phi Beta Kappa before - super cool!! If I end up at Rutgers I’ll definitely keep this in mind.

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Law schools, in general, like to admit students from a diverse set of colleges & universities, not just from “PHYSM”. But keep in mind the the top law schools (e.g. Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Columbia) are typically interested in admitting the 4.0 GPA student from state public college or university, with near perfect or perfect LSAT or GRE scores.

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