Chance Me (My Son) Haverford and Case Western (Science Nerd/Theater Kid) [PA resident, 3.9 GPA, 32 ACT]

Chance Me / Match Me
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Demographics Junior, white, male (half Quaker/half Jewish)

  • US domestic (US citizen or permanent resident) or international student US
  • State/Location of residency: (state is important if you apply to any state universities) PA
  • Type of high school (current college for transfers): public in Philadelphia suburb

Intended Major(s) Biology or Neuroscience (plans to pursue PhD)

  • Unweighted HS GPA: 3.9 (?)
  • Weighted HS GPA (incl. weighting system): 4.77
  • ACT/SAT Scores: 32 (plans to re-take as he’s gotten much higher on practice)

Coursework

AP Bio, AP Psych, AP Lang (5s on practice tests) Next year, anatomy, statistics
3 years Spanish, 4 years everything else, all honors

Awards National Honor Society

Extracurriculars
4 years orchestra (percussion), theater (head of wardrobe, show orchestra), a capella, started a rock band (drummer)
This upcoming summer: accepted to neuroscience research program at Drexel, camp counselor at camp for children with Cancer

Cost Constraints / Budget
No constraints but will be a consideration factor once we get acceptances. For this reason we are not planning to appy ED

  • Safety (certain admission and affordability)
    Pitt, Drexel, Thomas Jefferson, Penn State

  • Match
    Case Western Reserve, Gettysburg

  • Reach
    Haverford, Wesylan, Johns Hopkins, Penn State Honors, WashU

Right now his first choice is Haverford and we’re looking at Case Western in a few weeks which looks really good on paper. He’s highly driven academically and loves all things bio and neorology. High priority is excellent research opportunities. Also a LGBTQ theater nerd who wants to take classes in all disciplines, join a school band, take music theory, and be among intellectually curious peers. Does not want a school with primary Greek Life and party scene. (Haverford really emphasized the lack of competition on campus and student input on curriculum which he loved).

I’d love to hear feedback about our current list and chances you think he has at acceptance at Haverford and Case Western. I’m assuming Johns Hopkins is a pipe dream and not sure the vibe would be a good fit.

Many thanks!

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A bit of friendly advice: A statement like this is going to be triggering for a few regular College Confidential posters. So unless you want your post to get derailed and completely dominated by an intrusive interrogation into your family’s finances, I would suggest deleting this sentence. You could try replacing it with something like, “Our family is aware of our financial picture and do not need help with our finances. I’d like to focus on the academic chances and fit.”

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So overall I think your list is looking good, and I do think if he can get that ACT up a bit it will help.

Just a few thoughts to consider.

If he really likes the cooperative, dare I say Quakerish, vibe at Haverford, I agree Hopkins is maybe a bit dubious of a fit. Particularly for a PhD intender, those majors at Hopkins just have a LOT of pre-meds. I mean, they always have a lot of pre-meds, but at Hopkins in particular I think it can have a lot of influence on the vibe. I think WUSTL is a better reach choice–also a lot of pre-meds but the culture there is just more, dare I say, Midwestern in vibe, which is probably more what he seems to be looking for.

And I also think Case Western might have a little of that Hopkins-type problem as well. Take this for what it is worth, but among the kids in our feederish HS who have similar interests and often consider all these colleges, Case Western has a reputation for being a bit more pre-professional and grindy, not least in popular pre-med majors. It is also academically excellent with a very nice location, and offers merit, but it is a bit more Swarthmore than Haverford it you will. They are also pretty big on demonstrated interest and if you do not ED there (and I would not recommend it) that might be a bit of an issue.

So I might suggest you check out a popular alternative to Case Western in my circles, which is the University of Rochester. It is also very strong in these areas academically, also lots of pre-meds to be honest, but again just has a reputation for being a notch less internally competitive. It also has a great performing arts scene–some of that is based in the Eastman School of Music, with a separate downtown campus, but then the main “River” campus also has its own Music Department, separate Dance and Theater Departments, and what I understand to be lots of productions. And they also have robust merit. They also consider demonstrated interest but by reputation and observation you have to do less to satisfy them.

Of course you can apply to both Case Western and Rochester (many kids in our circles do), and then compare offers and do admitted student days and such if relevant.

My other thought is since you have included some LACs, there are others I think you might want to check out. One obvious one to me would be Vassar. Just seems like your kid’s sort of vibe, and is very strong in Neuro. Another that seems really obvious to me is Oberlin, which has some merit. And the last I would suggest checking out is Macalester. Again, seems really on target both academically and vibe-wise, and they have merit too.

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A would second Vassar for consideration. I attended a Quaker high school and enjoyed attending weekly Meeting well beyond graduation. I also attended Vassar, and while not religious the “vibe” was a similarly inclusive and welcoming community.

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Thank you so much for this!!! Unfortunately I’m a brand new user so can’t edit my post yet but will do so as soon as I have a high enough “trust level”. I worded it horribly but our plan is to apply to the schools that seem to be the best fit, apply for financial aid and then made decisions accordingly.

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I can’t thank you enough for your deep read and thoughtful recommendations. I’m excited to check out the schools you added as you seem to 100% understand the “vibe” we are looking for :slight_smile:

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Thanks so much for sharing your experience! Sooooo excited to check out Vassar as for some reason I thought it was an all-Women’s college :flushed:

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As a male I have gotten a lot of that over the years😀. Vassar started admitting men in 1969.

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In case you are not aware, colleges all have Net Price Calculators. The more detailed they are, the better a result you are likely to get. So you can run the NPC at Haverford, Wesleyan, etc, and see what the cost is highly likely to be, as those schools do not offer merit aid. Thus, you can decide whether the school is something your family feels comfortable affording.

Additionally, please discuss with your son what the financial parameters are at the beginning of the process and not partway through. So whether it is a total budget number ($x/year) or we are willing to pay $x for school A, $y for school B, and $z for school C, or however your family intends to make its financial decisions. But it’s good for all parties in the family to know the financial parameters up front rather than having particularly difficult conversations in the spring.

I suspect that Gettysburg would be a likely for your kid, but based on how you’ve described him, I’m not sure if it would be the desired vibe. It’s definitely something I would have him research more.

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It actually just happens to be the case there is a partial overlap with my S24, so a lot of this is very fresh for me. He is not a theater kid, but he is interested in Bio and possibly a PhD, but is not pre-med and does not love a grindy vibe. So, of the schools we are discussing he applied to and was accepted at Pitt (excellent Likely choice–apply early so you get an early answer!), Rochester, Haverford, Vassar, and WUSTL, and is going to attend WUSTL.

That said, the theater thing is a notable difference, so that may lead in some non-overlapping directions, which is fine. Like, my S24 didn’t end up applying to Oberlin, but could have–he just had plenty of other options and Oberlin did not end up standing out to him. Conversely, Carleton was on his list and made his final two in the end, and while your kid could certainly consider it, I would not necessarily think it would stand out for a theater kid.

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I used this site that looks at the baccalaureate origins of people who have gone on to earn PhDs (through 2018). I limited the search to people who earned their doctorates in a biological field between 2000-2018 and used that as my initial inspiration source. For schools that seemed like they might be a good fit, I also cross-referenced with the number of students who majored in drama or similar to make sure there would be likely to have enough theater kids on campus (realizing that not all theater kids major in theater).

I’ve sorted the schools by my guesses as to what your son’s chances might be at these schools. The schools in bold are the ones that I added to the list while the unbolded ones are the schools in your original post.

Extremely Likely (80-99+%)

  • Allegheny (PA ): About 1400 undergrads

  • Drew (NJ): About 1500 undergrads

  • Drexel

  • Gustavus Adolphus (MN): About 2100 undergrads

  • Ithaca (NY): About 4600 undergrads and can cross-register for classes at Cornell

  • Thomas Jefferson

Likely (60-79%)

  • Clark (MA): About 2400 undergrads

  • Gettysburg

  • Lawrence (WI): About 1400 undergrads

  • Ohio Wesleyan: About 1400 undergrads

  • Penn State

  • Pitt: Make sure to apply early…like August or September

Toss-Up (40-59%)

  • College of Wooster (OH): About 2k undergrads

  • St. Olaf (MN): About 3k undergrads and can cross-register for classes at Carleton

Lower Probability (20-39%)

  • Case Western

  • Dickinson (PA ): About 2100 undergrads (not as many theater majors here, but seemed like it might be a better fit than Gettysburg if it’s important your kid stay close to home)

  • Oberlin (OH): About 3k undergrads

  • Skidmore (NY): About 2800 undergrads

  • Vassar (NY): About 2500 undergrads

Low Probability (less than 20%)

  • Grinnell (IA): About 1800 undergrads

  • Haverford

  • Johns Hopkins

  • Penn State Honors

  • Wash U

  • Wesleyan

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Your list looks quite reasonable. Agree that taking a look at Vassar might be worth it.

Tufts would be a reach but a fit.

You have a few that you will likely hear from earlier, and that can be quite liberating.

Gettysburg and JHU both strike me as odd men out in this list.

And yes, based on what you have described, Haverford looks like a Cinderella fit.

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Ooh, Wooster and St Olaf are excellent ideas if the OP’s son would like to diversify the LAC list further beyond just the reachier ones already mentioned. Particularly for the purpose of possibly having some significant merit offers to consider.

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These are way outside your geographic region, but my S23 applied to some on your list, as well as Reed (OR) and Whitman (WA). Both of those are less reachy than your reaches, with a similar vibe - and Whitman offers merit aid.

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Wow! Congrats on WUSTL! Sounds like you guys worked together well, did a bunch of research and found a great fit! Mine doesn’t need a theater program, but needs a combo of dare I say “artsy” with STEM.

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As @Ohno2 noted, some of us will take issue.

Here’s the thing - if Haverford - at today’s price is $370K for four years (no merit) and Pitt is high 30s for an Arts & Science degree - so let’s say $160K - and it’s going up so Haverford might be $400K for you.

Are you choosing it over Pitt? If so, then your statement should be - no financial constraints.

But when you say, they will be a factor and because of it we won’t apply ED, then it is a concern - and if the Quaker/Haverford thing matters, then maybe look at Earlham, etc. You can argue Indiana is no place for an LGBTQ kid - but I could make that same argument for CWRU and Ohio.

So - to build a list, you need to be honest up front about cost. I am a full pay family - but my student was only allowed to attend a school that came in under $50K. Unless you have financial need, Haverford is near $400K. So it’s imperative you set a budget.

It doesn’t mean you can’t apply to expensive schools (CWRU is one) - but they must have the “chance” to come in at budget - if that makes sense.

Haverford is #1 but money matters and you won’t ED - that tells me it shouldn’t be #1. The good news is that there are many fine LACs that give merit $$. You have Gettysburg - there’s one right there.

CWRU requires demonstrated interest - it’s a hard school to call a match - some with lesser stats get in and some with higher stats don’t. But visit as you are and then stay engaged with them on the website - getting on their list, attending an on line session or two, etc.

I agree on JHU - but wonder if schools with more open curriculums might be worth a look - like Rochester (has merit) as an example. There are others - Vassar, Wesleyan, etc. but like Haverford, have no merit.

Oberlin might be another to look at given the theatre interests and while I’m not familiar with the school, there’s a lot of love on this website for St. Olaf for kids with your interests - and if you decide it’s worth a look, Carleton is next door (another top tier, LAC with no merit except NMF $2K - and has a trimester schedule). I’m not recommending it - but if you were there, it’s a 2 for 1.

On your list, Gettysburg and PSU would be safeties but I see you are noting only Scheyer Honors.

Good luck.

PS - if you don’t know your financial need, fill this out to see - you might be surprised:

Welcome | Net Price Calculator (collegeboard.org)

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We did! And I loved it. Lots of fun.

Strangely I know exactly what you mean, but I guess that is because it is a pretty common combination in our HS. Again not my kid–he was sporty, not at all artsy–but many we knew.

Anyway, as people are explaining there are really lots of great options for that sort of combination. I’ll just toss in that it got pretty personal, in a good way, for the kids we knew like that. As in, it is easy enough to find friendly but academicky colleges good for Bio and such. But then which of those colleges the kids really loved after investigating, visiting, and so on was very individualized.

And then merit offers definitely caused some re-thinking as well.

And that is all part of the fun as far as I am concerned!

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My art loving social science kid will be attending Macalester. During the admitted student day, we were impressed by a thether faculty, she was introducing a new freshman course.

Seeing Performance in the Twin Cities: In a process of studied spectatorship, students in this first-year course will attend live performances in the Twin Cities and view films of performances by local artists. They will acquire the vocabularies of the field to critically articulate their individual reactions to dance and theater performances, and consider their design elements. With the support of seminal readings in dance, design, and theater criticism, students will write reviews and essays that give special consideration to issues of representation, socio-historical context, and artistic expression.

Not sure if my S24 will take that course, but I would definitely have signed up!

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Seems perfectly sensible and personal. Different families have different priorities and resources and I respect your desire for our focus to be on academic and social fit.

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Thanks so much for this info!!! Lots of research to dive into, I love it :slight_smile:

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