If anyone is familiar with Harvard’s admission system, do you think you could rate my Academics, Athletics, and ECs based on your thoughts? This Reddit post does a great job of briefly summarizing and explaining the system (make sure to open in a new tab - you will lose this page if you don’t) : Reddit - Dive into anything
Thanks!
The simple answer is you will probably get a bunch of 2s. Almost no one gets a 1 in anything besides Athletics, and you would specifically need to be a recruited athlete to get a 1 in Athletics.
2s are fine, though, the real trick is then also getting a 2 and not a 3 on the Personal Rating. That’s going to be a matter of your recommendations, essays, and possibly an interview.
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I remain concerned that your search is driven by prestige, and in some cases, school counselors are too, since it helps the reputation of the school. I hope you consider other schools for fit. (I think you liked the Case Western 3-2 for instance…and we loved Olin). You and your family sound like you have good values and you have done Ec’s for the “right reasons.” I hope you can continue that way!
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Having seen my child’s file, I noticed a couple of things:
- It’s not a straightforward 1, 2, 3, 4 rating. There are also + and - ratings given, such as 1- and 2+.
- There was a pretty wide disparity in the scores given by the the three reviewers (two admission officers plus the interviewer). This is not supposed to happen.
Given this, I believe us trying to guess your scores based upon your impression of your qualifications is about as effective as rolling dice.
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It is what it is, Compmom. This OP’s profile reads like something out of an F. Scott Fitzgerald novel. He’s going to land on his feet.
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Schools like the OP’s will try to maximize admissions for the class as a whole, and the counselor knows exactly how the applicant will rank compared to his classmates, so take his/her advice very seriously-if they say Harvard is a long shot, it likely means they have identified a classmate or two who has a better chance ( which may include hooks) and that would be the school’s top candidate for there. Ask where they think you have a good chance and would be supported. It may not be worth it to waste an REA if you are competing against a double legacy with similar stats, for example. Or if an athlete is going to commit to that school ( unless your counselor believes multiple admissions are likely). A willingness to use early admission can be to your advantage as well.
Pton does like to admit Pton prize winners.
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As others have indicated, you have a strong profile and I would not be surprised if you got into any school in the U.S. I agree that your counselors are best-suited to chance you.
If you are looking for schools with higher admit rates that you may want to investigate, I’d suggest taking a look at:
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Binghamton (NY): About 14k undergrads
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Cal Poly - San Luis Obispo: About 21k undergrads
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Fairfield (CT): About 4800 undergrads
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Lehigh (PA ): About 5600 undergrads
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U. of Miami (FL): About 13k undergrads
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U. of Pittsburgh (PA ): About 24k undergrads
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U. of San Diego (CA): About 5700 undergrads
All of these schools have engineering and business offerings that you could find a spot within but also offer a range of subjects for you to explore and study. There are also a number of schools that are close to the water and would have a good chance of having sailing opportunities for you. Additionally, because you are such a strong candidate, you may end up being awarded exclusive/top scholarships at a school which may provide opportunities that would rival (or perhaps, even better) those at a Super Exclusive School because there would be a much smaller cohort getting access to the high-value opportunities.
Wishing you the best as you go through this process!
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Right, and the question about Harvard’s scoring and comment about Cornell and Columbia being “lower” than Harvard suggests the same.
Here’s what I would say, with a reasonable degree of confidence, and your data set can verify this: you should assume your acceptance likelihood at Harvard and Princeton is in line or fairly close to their general acceptance rate. You get positives from being a great student at an excellent school and negatives from not being a legacy or hooked student in a pool of other classmates that are. Might yogi get in? Yeah, there’s a 3% chance or so. Maybe 5%. They might take one or two unhooked students from your school of the twenty or so who will apply. They might take zero. I’ve seen both.
Your ED likelihood at Cornell or Columbia is some multiple of that. 3x? 5x? 10x? Hard to know. It’s a fuzzy math problem. But it’s definitely meaningfully higher and almost certainly the most important differentiator from any non-recruited-athlete classmates.
Another thing, from an adult perspective, take it for what it’s worth: there is virtually nothing you would want to do with business, economics, or engineering that Harvard or Princeton would enable and Columbia or Cornell won’t. I get the pull to the “better” name, I really do, and also any of these places will help you prepare for your future and build a cohort of incredible people.
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As you are gathering there are a lot of different opinions on ED.
Personally, I am generally skeptical the competitive benefits of ED, and indeed even ED + legacy, are nearly as high as some assume, particularly at high-yield colleges. Among other reasons, these colleges can and will choose to defer marginal cases, including marginal legacies, knowing their yield will still be high if they then admit RD.
So personally, I would not apply binding to any place unless it was actually my top choice.
Of course part of that is also because I would be confident I would get admitted somewhere great anyway. Like, I agree Harvard is not so special that Cornell would be so much worse, but then Cornell is also not so special! So, if you REA Harvard, RD Cornell, get into neither, meh, who cares, somewhere else great likely admitted you anyway.
Again, people see it differently, but that is my two cents.
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What a compliment 
and one of my favorite authors.
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Except that OP is at a top private school, with excellent college counseling and a great placement record at elite schools.
That, plus his accomplishments and ECs, suggest to me that his acceptance chances are quite a bit higher than the general acceptance rate.
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Also ask your counselor if the legacy hook will apply in an RD round in practice
SCOIR data suggests that for our feederish HS, there are ranges in which the admit frequency at even the most selective colleges can be as high as 1 in 3, maybe even better. Of course some of those might be legacy, but I see some of the same dots getting admitted multiple places. My guess is they were just all around very strong candidates, and indeed I know some kids like that from this year.
Again the OP’s HS will know for sure what sort of profile gets what sort of frequencies, but my point is that is not terribly uncommon. But the really tricky bit is those correlated results for individual dots.
Like, it isn’t a random 1 out of 3, it is more like out of three, there is one who gets into many but not all, one who gets into none, and one who gets into maybe one or two. Which implies you still need a more robust list, just in case you are that none applicant.
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Thank you all for the amazing responses. I did not realize how much I would learn from this post. I have gotten so many great recommendations and advice and I can’t express my appreciation enough, so thank you. I have gathered that the best thing to do right now is talk to my counselors as they have the best insight on how I stand.
To address some of the recent comments, I guess I have been chasing prestige, and I know that is not a good thing; however, the schools I have mentioned are ranked highly for a reason. I do think that there are so many great schools out there that may even be stronger in some academic aspects but have less prestige, but I have seen so many cases of prestigious schools getting more favorable treatment in the job recruitment process. Also, not saying that I am anywhere close to good for looking at prestige, but if you step in my shoes for a minute, there is so much pressure to go to the best schools, especially from the environment I come from. I have gone to the best private schools all my life, starting from nursery school (I know that sounds crazy), and I have worked so hard to get where I am. Additionally, it doesn’t help to go to a top private school because that competitive environment inherently exists and is prevalent. So from my perspective, it is a hard thing to balance. I think that everyone is right and it is not the thing to be looking at, but I hope my perspective, which is similar to many others in my situation, can provide some clarity for the selections and comments I have made. Also, from what I have gathered, I think at the end of the day, I will have the best chance at the legacy schools, so maybe apply their early, and then apply to anywhere else I want and see where I get in. With a decently strong application, it comes down to a bit of luck, but my college counselors will be helpful in that process. Thank you all again for all the amazing help!
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You seem mature and balanced. You are correct that while there are plenty of great schools, these brand-name schools will open more doors for you. So you should not feel bad about wanting to get into any of these schools. Just make sure you balance your list with other good schools that are easier to get into, so you’re not shut out (which happens occasionally).
Best wishes.
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I definitely sympathize. I think like many such things, it should be seen as a process.
Ambitious kids at highly competitive secondary schools may have a very limited view of what makes a college good/better. 25+ years later as parents and such, many may have a much broader view. Usually that is because by that point, they have seen so many personal success stories for people who did not go to a fancy college, and also know a lot of people who went to a fancy college who have not had a great life. But when you are still just a kid, and have not experienced any of that yet, it is asking a lot for you to see the world the way those people do.
But, it is never to early to start broadening your understanding. By the time you choose a college, there still might be some sharp limits to where you will consider, and that is OK. But I think the more time you spend actually really looking at various college programs in depth, talking to people who know about those programs, and so on, the more you will start getting an idea of the variety of what is really out there.
Just a side note, but a lot of that is just a wealth effect.
These institutions can have wealth in various forms–endowments, gifts for current use, research grants, real property, net tuition, and so on. And the wealthiest institutions tend to use that wealth in ways that lead to them being seen as more desirable, such that a lot of highly qualified kids apply. This can be faculty, facilities, housing, dining, all sorts of non-academic programs, some very generous student grants, and so on.
OK, and then having attracted a lot of kids who want a piece of that action, they can only admit a fraction. And among competitive kids that reinforces the perception that they must be very desirable.
My suggestion to you, though, is to think about the first phase of that, but in an individual way, and ignore the second.
Meaning if a wealthy institution has used that wealth to buy things you find attractive in a college, great. But you might also consider when such an institution might be buying things you personally care less about, or alternatively is spending relatively much on something you do care about.
And then once you have identified the colleges that have paid for the things that you as an individual care about, try to avoid the temptation to overrule that analysis because maybe some other college has a lower admit rate or whatever. All that means is something about them is attracting a lot of applications, but if that is not one of the somethings you really care about, then that is not important information for you. Of course other kids may want the same things you want, so your colleges may still be quite selective. But they may not be the absolute most selective, and that should be fine.
But again, all this is from the perspective of adult with a lot of real world experience. You may not be willing to entirely buy into all that, not yet at least. But I would advise at least thinking about it, because I think often really the best colleges for some people will not in fact be the ones with the absolute lowest acceptance rates. Maybe some colleges like that would be good for that individual, but not all, and other colleges might be as good or even better.
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That is a really interesting perspective, and very well written. The wealth effect section makes so much sense and sheds a new light on the process. I think it is very true and something that I have heard before. It is something that will definitely take more time to process and understand but it is something I will definitely consider. I have reread that a few times and has made me think a lot. I appreciate your help and I do have to say you particularly have had some very amazing and helpful insights, so thank you.
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“but I have seen so many cases of prestigious schools getting more favorable treatment in the job recruitment process.”
You’re in HS and you’ve already observed the job recruitment process up close?
Your statement is absolutely correct but I fear you have drawn the wrong conclusion (and I doubt you’ve seen more than a handful of job candidates/analyzed their search strategies).
When I hired for the aerospace industry, the “prestigious schools” included MIT and Caltech (as you would expect) but also Missouri S&T (I doubt you know anyone who has ever gone there, but they are a powerhouse of a university in many fields), UIUC, Purdue, Embry-Riddle (few people outside the industry even know about it), Georgia Tech and a few others. And we hired for applied math type roles (so not engineering) from Swarthmore, Harvey Mudd and Rutgers among others. THAT’s prestige in that industry. And yes, candidates from our short list of schools got a second look even if ultimately we didn’t offer an interview or if they didn’t progress in the process.
It’s industry specific. So being prestige oriented may or may not work out for you. I know kids who assume that NYU, Fordham, Columbia are the smart choices for a career on the business side of the visual arts because all the major auction houses, galleries, (plus about a dozen of world class museums) are in NYC. But Williams (tiny Williams in rural MA) " out-prestiges" them all by a large margin.
I really can’t imagine you’ve seen “so many cases” at this point in your life! And if you have, I’m willing to bet they are all clustered in one sector- some aspect of asset management or wealth management- which in no way represents the rest of a multi-trillion dollar global economy.
You want to major in linguistics? U Mass for the win. The top accounting program in the US? You’ll get a healthy debate going- but among the contenders are BYU and U T Austin.
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I note part of where that all leads is that one of the main distinguishing factors of the “top”/wealthiest colleges is they are usually at least pretty good for almost everything they offer, and next-steps they support (including as to both industry/field and region/locality). Always the best in everything, everywhere? Definitely not. But with limited exceptions, at least pretty good. Which, when you think about it, is going to be very expensive.
And I think that can be real value, particularly for kids who are not sure yet what they want to do–or who think they are sure, but it turns out they change their minds anyway. Of course some flagship publics are well-resourced enough to serve that function too. But it makes sense kids would value those schools for that reason.
But if you can’t get admitted to, or can’t afford, one of those colleges, of course you are not doomed. Way, way more successful professionals exist than have been educated at one of those colleges. As I like to say, I think people on that path sometimes face a narrower margin for error, but many people successfully negotiate around the pitfalls and end up with very successful lives.
So that’s the reality of the situation as I see it. I do think there can be value in increasing your margin for error and broadening your good options, but there are other paths available if that is not feasible.
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The OP never expressed interest in linguistics or accounting. He is the son of wealthy well connected parents interested in finance or engineering, thus likely to pursue the trinity of IB/consulting/tech so popular on Ivy campuses, for which prestige matters, and all of the Ivies would be good choices.
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