Honestly, I have seen a fair amount due to a variety of factors. Also to clarify, I was speaking to my intended major of econ/finance/business and specifically in IB, PE, and asset and wealth management as you mentioned. You are right to assume that they are all in primarily one sector. However, I don’t think it is fair to assume the level of which I have observed and seen this treatment as you only know so much about my life through the initial post. Although I see where you are coming from and I understand that it may not be reasonable for a HS student to have seen “a lot.” I have many friends at every ivy in these majors and I can list countless examples. Coming from a school of high caliber, I already have a strong network of alumni and recent grads whom I have spoken to. Additionally, through sailing, which is a very niche and “rich man” sport, I have met multiple people at these schools who have had similar experiences. Lastly, both my parents are well-educated and have done well in their respective industries and are both in leadership positions, hiring or overseeing the hiring process. I talk a lot with them a lot and have seen and heard of that preferential treatment from them. While there is a difference between prestigious schools and prestigious schools in regard to a specific major/industry, there is much overlap at the top. Maybe the definition is causing the confusion between the two. A quick example of something that I have seen firsthand happened at a sport recruiting visit to UPENN. Wharton has a heavy focus on job-recruiting and by spring of sophomore year, nearly every student has a job lined up for them after they graduate and most at top firms. I know this is exactly what you are saying how “Industry-specific prestige” exists and matters more, but econ is offered at many schools and there are many studies showing how students from more prestigious schools go to better firms. You are also very right in that I have observed the “input” (going to a prestigious college) and “output” (recruited at top firm) not the actual science per se behind the process, although I do have some exposure through my parents. I used the phrase “so many cases” more as a means to emphasize my point, and classifying “so many cases” is a bit subjective. In my opinion I have seen a fair amount, maybe not the point of “so many” if we are getting the nitty gritty detail. By no means am I discrediting less “reputable” or prestigious schools. As you mentioned, they may have more industry-respective prestige which is beneficial, but as I mention, which is also research-proven, there is much overlap between the two at a higher level, especially with econ. Also, a major part of this is risk management. By going. to a more “prestigious school” whether that be industry specific or not, you are likely increasing your chances at securing a better job post-college. I know there are many factors to this, but you are significantly controlling you chances and reducing risk of not. I am well aware there are many success stories of people coming from so many different backgrounds, but again the point is to reduce risk and maximize/enjoy learning. Hopefully this clarifies that!
All of your points are well taken- and I agree with many of them.
But just to take Econ (using your example)-- which is more “prestigious”- working in client services with high net worth individuals, or working for the US Treasury department restructuring the debt of a developing nation to prevent a global meltdown of the banking system? Which is more prestigious- selling canned asset allocation models to mutual fund companies, or working on the team which traces the assets of the ruling family of a particular country which has been responsible for murdering thousands of their own citizens?
I know which jobs pay more. But since you already have landed on third base, you have the luxury of considering some of these other career paths from a degree in Econ. Hugely prestigious in their own way even if not monstrously well compensated.
I don’t need to sound snide. But I can’t imagine that you will get bad advice from either your own family or your guidance counselor. What exactly do you need from a bunch of strangers on the internet???
Your background sounds phenomenal and I can’t imagine a bad outcome.
Good grief, the boy is on track for FAANG, MBB, or bulge brackets at the major banks. From there he can jump eventually to companies, the government, or Mother Teresa’s charity group if he wishes, but he will start out by keeping his options open at elite employer. Jumping the other way is much harder.
I’m pointing out that with his options, education and upbringing he can do virtually anything. And no need for the snark about Mother Theresa. There was a time when doing something socially beneficial was not looked down upon by the affluent… time honored tradition in the US for those with advantages to leverage their social status in a way that the those from an FGLI background couldn’t do with the same cushioning.
Sorry I hit a nerve. Yes, every smart, hard-working rich kid should head off to Goldman Sachs before the world runs out of 1%'ers…
But just to take Econ (using your example)-- which is more “prestigious”- working in client services with high net worth individuals
This is a great point and something that is to consider. I have actually thought about this a lot and reminds me of the concept of ethical investing, or participating/doing something that aligns with your morals and makes an impact on something meaningful to you. I am well aware of my privilege and there are certainly more opportunities for me to engage in a specific field that makes a global or more significant impact or difference. I do think that these opportunities vary at schools due to wealth, prestige, and other factors, but they exist at every school (again this is my opinion others may have a different view). I also think that top firms are a great starting point to learn skills and the industry and then you can take what you have learned and do your own thing or something more meaningful (Something which both my parents have done). It is definitely a multi-faceted topic with a lot to consider. I think it is also important to consider (this may sound a bit privileged or controversial) that it is harder to financially move down than up. Obviously, life is life, but starting at a place where I can succeed will allow me to pursue other maybe more meaningful opportunities later on in a way that may even be more meaningful than off the bat. I also have a very limited perceptive so take all this with a grain of salt and I am not trying to argue or start any arguments.
What exactly do you need from a bunch of strangers on the internet?
You are right in that I will get some amazing advice from counselors, teachers, and parents, but I initially posted for a few reasons.
-
Get an outside perspective on my app. Parents and Counselors, while offering amazing support and advice, can sometimes be a little optimistic. It is a bit subjective, but an outside perspective who has no need “lie” or sound “supportive” can offer some great advice.
-
To be honest, I hate college tours and doing research on colleges, but I am doing better and my parents and counselors have helped a lot. However, that group of people only has so much knowledge about every program, albeit it may be a lot, it certainly does not encapsulate the broader database of schools. I have also gotten so many great options from here that I probably wouldn’t have even seen.
-
New general perspectives - conversations such as this have opened up my perspective on different things regarding academics, college, and after college. I do have meaningful discussions with my parents and counselors, but why limit that to a select group, when I can learn from others and gain more knowledge
I like the saying “control the controllable,” and is how I both manage stress and cater my approach to different events. This idea was introduced to me by a coach right before the world championship. There is a great deal you can control going into an event like that, but there is also a lot you cannot control. If you control everything you can, you can focus on managing the uncontrollable. This idea can be applied to the college process and is exactly why I posted here. The only way to control the controllable to the highest level is through information and knowledge, which is precisely what I have gained in this thread. While I may favor the advice of my parents and counselors or give it more “weight,” the info and advice I have gathered here can also be regarded as strong, and thus aid in controlling as much as possible and reduce “risk” in the process.
I greatly admire Mother Tersa, and am certain her group both does great work and would benefit from professional investment advice at the highest level ( maybe it already gets it). But pointing out different career options to a kid who has made his interest clear, particularly a sophisticated kid who understands the options, is just substitution of your priorities for his.
I am quite serious about bailing out after a few years at an elite employer. Many do, they have good exit options, and the employees are of far higher value to the receiving organization because of their elite experience.
If a kid wanted his own echo chamber (McKinsey or bust. Goldman or bust. Jane Street represents the highest and best use of your talents) he wouldn’t be posting on an anonymous message board, would he? He already knows that going to Wharton, Harvard, Princeton, Chicago et al “preserves” his options for his next step.
Presumably he’s looking for a different take. Which I’ve provided. You are free to ignore my take.
Actually, I thought he was seeking input on the Harvard/Pton REA vs Columbia/Cornell ED choice, but to each their own.
Unlike others, I do not think this is a bad thing. You only live once, apply to where ever you want.
Agreed with this 
The OP has a profile that seems to be manufactured in an assembly line to the Ivies, but I also wont be shocked if they get shut out completely from the top schools.
I’ll assume the users who wish to debate each other will take their conversation to PM if they wish to continue, and that all further posts from all users will focus on the OP.
Yup - nothing is guaranteed and that’s happened so many times.
but I also wont be shocked if they get shut out completely from the top schools.
Is this because of something pertaining to my app or the general admissions process (or a bit of both)
Personally, I would assume you will get into most of T20 schools you apply to (except maybe MIT/Caltech because of their quirks) UNLESS you give them something / some reason to reject you. Your background can either be an advantage or disadvantage depending on how you come across on paper.
@blossom and @roycroftmom
Both of your points are correct and offer unique perspectives. At first, I was looking for advice regarding REA, but I am also seeking new perspectives. Blossom had a great point that I enjoyed thinking about and impacted my perspective. My response post got drowned out by the recent posts, but if you read it (I think it is post 64 or 65) you will see that both are great points and are helpful. So I appreciate both your perspectives and thank you.
As an aside, after my fancy law school degree and clerkship, I could have gone into Big Law and joined the rat race to try to make partner, but instead I worked every angle to start off my legal career as a trial attorney at the DOJ, skipped the whole junior associate thing, and eventually lateraled to a midsize firm where I have an actual work/life balance. This was not the most lucrative path I could have taken, but I am very happy with my decisions.
Anyway, people get blanked and it is not always obvious why. I’m not saying this will actually happen, but it could be as trivial as you getting branded as that sailing kid, and all these colleges deciding they have enough sailing kids by the time they get to your application.
Again, though, you can make up possible scenarios like this for almost everyone. And you getting in lots of these colleges is equally possible. But I agree there is enough risk of something like that happening to make sure you cover that contingency.
This strikes a nerve for me, because it’s so true. Youth, in particular, have a reputation for being idealists, optimists, wanting to change the world and make it a better place. I don’t read as much about that in some posters’ threads as I might have imagined would be the case.
I think a lot of this depends on mindset, and it also depends on when you’re doing the moving down. After college I went to grad school and was living on my grad school stipend, so not the life of the rich and famous. Although there were other opportunities available to me, I purposefully entered a field that was many tax brackets lower than the one I was raised in because I felt that there was a severe injustice in the world and that by entering my profession, I could make a positive impact and improve the lives of those who were dealt a rotten hand. Because I went from no great income to no great income, it wasn’t as big of a sacrifice as if I had accepted a high remuneration position and then needed to significantly slim down my expenses (and/or if I had been continuing to live in the same lifestyle in which I had grown up).
Although that was my path, that is not the only path to do work towards a social good.
Some start in a position or in a field that earns big bucks and continue in that field until they can save enough so that they can continue their life at their desired level of expense based entirely on their savings which, depending on the amount earned and tastes of the individual, can take a longer time to create positive social impacts, though they may help use their connections for others who are more willing to foresake high monetary success while they’re amassing their savings. Others might find that their gifts lie in earning big bucks and then living modestly and donating/investing the money in ways to maximize some social good.
All of that to say, I hope you continue to think about your morals and making an impact on something meaningful to you as you think about colleges and well beyond.
@AustenNut beat me to it, but I think this is the key insight here. This entire forum is an embarrassment of riches when it comes to taking a peek at broad cross-sections of America. Our unique college admissions process is a great leveler; everyone arrives here in some state of stress and/or confusion whether they are FGLI kids largely in charge of the process themselves or the soccer mom (or dad) earnestly trying to navigate the athletic recruitment process.
And occasionally there’s the discussion starter from a privileged background.
They know the ropes; they know what they want; they have the means to travel and do a lot of “comparison shopping” even before applying (there is an entire thread that runs thousands of pages long devoted to T50 colleges their kids have systematically crossed off their lists for seemingly trivial reasons.)
What is comparatively rare is when it is the kid him or herself that is doing the talking, and is willing to be frank and say the quiet part out loud - that they are not chasing “value”, they are not chasing merit-money. They are decidedly not Undecided about what they want to do with their immediate futures: They are rich and they want to stay rich.
To give them a bit more credit, they are, in fact, seeking a kind of “fit”: Their Kind of Fit. Other people like themselves who will help keep them on track. It’s okay. I find it entertaining. What’s the worst that can happen to the OP? That he winds up at Drew?
Yeah, I think an outside neutral observer to all this might assess our fancy college system and say it appears to mostly be taking kids from upper-middle-to-upper-income families and making sure they also become upper-middle-to-upper-income adults. A few cases of actual upward mobility also happen, but observably the majority of what happens is just reinforcement and reduplication of high socioeconomic status.
Which sounds cynical, but this is in fact a competitive capitalist society in which we live, so that is no small thing. And if some kid sees and accepts all that–kinda refreshing.
That said, I think there IS more to be considered. In terms of happiness and fulfillment, understanding the concept of “enough” is almost like a superpower. You can have enough house, enough car, enough vacation, enough money, enough status, and so on. And if you can figure out what is enough, you can start making choices about how you actually spend your time and other scarce resources in ways that truly make for a good life overall.
So colleges that help you get enough are good, but then after that, colleges which help you explore your talents and interests, broaden your sense of what is possible, give you options for not just pursuing ever higher piles of income or status, and so on are worth thinking about.
Beautifully written.
The adults here all know colleagues, contemporaries, family members, for whom “enough” is never enough. I confess that although I know a lot of people who struggle with addiction (to take one obvious example) none of them have any financial constraints. I see the wreckage they’ve created with their loved ones and wonder “was it all worth it?” So much success- fancy cars and all the other markers of having made it-- but so little of enduring value.
A little introspection can be a powerful thing. Is becoming a highly paid something or other the only goal we are setting for our kids?
Probably not too controversial that it can be hard for someone who grew up in and is used to an upper or upper middle class life to contemplate living a life that does not require very high income or wealth to sustain.
But then that can be a mindset trap, since there is very little space to move up, while there is plenty of space for downward mobility (even though moving down from the upper class would still be above most people on the economic scale in most cases).