Geneseo is the NY Public Liberal Arts - great school but definitely more rural - but less than an hour to Rochester. For a pure safety and they have an Honors Program, might Albany work better (SUNY)? It’s in the capital for extra “oomph.”
Again, you’re not going there (to this pure safety) but it’s the - if I get nowhere else (a situation, that to me is unlikely). I think with good LORS and Essays, this student will have options.
Best of luck as your student develops the list and applies.
Which campuses has she visited? For instance, knowing that she’s eliminating a school because her brother’s friend attends means that a visit may still be worthwhile (Brandeis), whereas if she visited a school and didn’t vibe with it (Wesleyan), then it seems like a no-go that is unlikely to change.
She has visited Brandeis twice — once with her brother, once just for her.
Schools she has formally toured in the last year:
Columbia, NYU, Vassar, Cornell, Tufts, Amherst, Clark, Brandeis, UVA.
Schools she has high familiarity but non-tour- BU (she did a 2 week summer program), Georgetown (did a 1 week summer program), GW (multiple visits).
Schools she toured 2022-2023 with her brother- Wesleyan, Binghamton, U Rochester, and I’m probably missing a couple.
Tour of Brown likely coming soon. Scheduled to formally tour BU over the summer.
She is mostly sick of touring, “can’t I just apply without touring” is the new refrain. Right now, she doesn’t want to do ED. She wants to just apply to a lot of RD and then decide next year.
I’m encouraging her to give real thought to Cornell ED, but she doesn’t want to be bound if she isn’t 110% sure it’s her first choice.
Right now, her list is:
“Absolutely not”
“Eh, I’d go there if didn’t get in anywhere else” — this is most of her list.
And final category, “it’s fine… maybe.”
Don’t get me started on the conversation of what she wants to study. Public policy is basically process of elimination as it’s the only “maybe” on a pile of rejections. No STEM, no to business, no to environmental, etc etc. public policy gets the ringing “ maybe” endorsement.
If a student doesn’t want to ED, then don’t ED. You have to want to be there - and you have to - not just be able to afford it (you can) but want to afford it. Think about - $400K over four years - do you want to spend that, knowing that grad school may be in the mix. That’s up to each person. But before you mentioned Drexel with merit of SUNY B for low cost (on the safeties). After thinking about it, some could move it to the top - you lose that with ED - but the fact that she doesn’t want to ED, frankly, is all that matters!!!
"She is mostly sick of touring, “can’t I just apply without touring” - at this point, yes she can. IMHO, you need to slow down. She’s tired of this and app season hasn’t even started yet and it’s grueling. Kids burn out then - you don’t need them burning out before you even start the app season. For her, she’s seen enough - and it’s fine. If she gets into a school she knows she already likes, and she applies to some she hasn’t seen, she has no risk - because if she gets in she’ll have plenty of time to see it and worst case if she doesn’t like it, who cares - because she has a landing spot already at a school she’s seen and likes.
It’s a policy major. I may be in the minority - but I don’t think the where matters that much. My kid chose #16 of 17 she got into rank wise (a low name regional and has interned for the state we live in and for a well known think tank in DC during the fall).
I get it - schools like Brown and Cornell are special - and the names may carry - but at this point, based on your own words, your running your student too hard - and app season hasn’t even started.
So I’d say to pull back - let her finish the school year focused - and revisit when the app season opens - later in summer. Let her enjoy the first part of her summer too.
She’s already well ahead of the curve. And don’t forget, she, not you, is going to college.
Thanks for defining her categories…definitely helps put things in perspective!
It sounds as though she is toured out at the moment, and it’s totally okay to apply to schools without touring them. But I can see why it’s been challenging understanding her desires at present.
I’m going to toss out some more suggestions here, as it seems her preferences can easily be swayed by other factors . Some of these might vibe better with Vassar, but others definitely won’t, but might vibe more with BU. And if Middlebury’s in consideration, then I interpreted some latitude from there as well. So, this list is a bit scattershot, but for good reason!
I focused on the sure things, because I really think it’s critical to have a school that meets her, “it’s fine… maybe” tier, as that is her highest level of commendation.
Extremely Likely (80-99+%)
Emmanuel (MA): About 1900 undergrads in Boston and part of a consortium with Wentworth Inst. of Technology, Simmons, etc. So classes, clubs, etc, are with students from multiple campuses. 16m drive, 21m bike ride, or 27m via public transportation to the Massachusetts State House.
George Mason (VA): About 27k undergrads, strong programs and opportunities for her areas of interest. Well within the driving radius and she could also take the train back and forth for ease of transportation (or a super quick and frequent flight).
Goucher: I know she thinks it’s too small, but does she realize it’s in part of a consortium with Loyola Maryland, Johns Hopkins, and other Baltimore area schools, so she could take classes and such at the other schools? There’s also a shuttle that goes between the campuses.
Loyola Maryland: About 4k undergrads and part of that same Baltimore consortium
Saint Joseph’s (PA ): About 5100 undergrads in Philly
Suffolk (MA): About 4400 undergrads in Boston that is a 3m WALK from the Massachusetts State House
The College of New Jersey: About 7k undergrads, an 11m drive (20m bike) from the NJ State Capitol
Likely (60-79%)
Dickinson (PA ): About 2100 undergrads, strong in her area of interests and a half hour away from the Pennsylvania State Capitol Complex.
Providence (RI): About 4k undergrads and 1.2 miles from the Rhode Island State Hosue
Trinity (CT): About 2200 undergrads and 1.1 miles from the Connecticut State Capitol
Note that I normally would have put Dickinson & Trinity into the toss-up (40-59%) category, but based on your description of the results at your high school, I’ve bumped them up to the next higher category.
That’s not such a bad idea if she can choose schools she’s interested in without touring. I see that she’s already toured a lot of schools, so by now, she can probably figure out for herself what kind of school she wants. It’s OK to leave some until she is admitted.
My D26 told me she doesn’t want to spend a lot of time touring schools. So the current plan is that we are not going to plan tours for reach schools, unless they are in the area with no travel required. We agreed to put our effort into touring “likely / extremely likely” schools, so that she can be sure she has schools on her list where she will probably be admitted and would be happy to attend. She can also apply to reach schools, and if she gets in with an affordable package, we will figure out how to get her there for an admitted student visit.
Very good advice. I don’t care where she chooses to go, I’d just like her to make an educated choice (if I’m spending close to $400k for it). She does have time.
Thanks for the suggested, a couple possibilities there. I should add she ruled out Johns Hopkins because she didn’t like Baltimore. George Mason is too big and too far – She is only willing to maybe consider UVA because she would have 5 cousins and 2 Aunts and 2 Uncles within a 15 minute drive.
Suffolk, College of NJ, Dickinson may all be worth a look. She online toured Providence and didn’t like it. No idea why not.
Technically, from where we are – Boston is about 3 hours and 20 minutes. And she simply loves Boston.
GW/Georgetown takes nearly 5 hours by car — but we have train service and short direct flights from a nearby airport. And, my son is there, so she would have family there.
Ithaca is about 4 hours from us, but she would have a lot of friends there (about 10-20 kids from her high school go there every year), but she still sees that distance as a real negative.
George Mason would be a bit over 5 hours from us, without direct train or plane service, and with no family or friends nearby.
If your sons are flying from Ronald Reagan or Dulles airports, Fairfax is about a half hour from each of those airports (same travel time for Dulles, but longer for Ronald Reagan in comparison with the D.C. schools). George Mason is about 20m further from Union Station than Georgetown is. GW & Georgetown are 30m away from George Mason.
If it’s too far for your family, then it’s too far, but I want future readers to understand where Fairfax, VA is in comparison to the D.C. schools (whereas Charlottesville is about 2 additional hours away vs. 30m for Fairfax). For folks who are looking for an extremely likely admit with strong policy opportunities, I don’t want there to be confusion about George Mason’s location.
Just throwing out another big (but not so big) school - that’s well connected in policy and will come with merit - to give another option vs. Bing - I don’t think it was mentioned and it would meet the travel guidelines and those who know it well speak highly of it on this website:
Had a meeting with our college counselor.
She was comfortable with SUNY Binghamton being essentially the safety school, with a couple similar just to be truly safe.
Her advice is:
ED1 - Cornell
ED2- Vassar or BU
She felt Amherst would be a possible ED1 alternative.
Felt Brown and Georgetown would not be impossible but low enough likelihood that could be a “waste” of ED/REA.
She likes to encourage use of ED into schools that really give you a good chance. Not boosting a 2% to a 10%, but rather boosting 20% to 50%+.
80% of her ED students got into their ED school the last few cycles, so that’s her philosophy.
SATs— my daughter is currently sitting on 740 math, 720 reading and writing. Encouraging tutoring focused on bringing up the reading and writing.
So updated questions—
For Cornell ED, public policy school, would 1460 be submit or go test optional?
If increased to 740/740, 1480 total?
My advice is - ED to the school you 100% know you want to go, and that you can afford (it sounds like you are willing and able to do this).
Has your daughter been to Cornell? Are you sure it’s her top school? Because if Vassar or BU are #2 - wow, both are so different.
ED is not a game and doesn’t necessarily need to be used. If it is used, it should be for those schools where the student wants to be - not that Amherst may be a better sub or Brown would be impossible.
Where does the student want to go?? That’s what ED is for - and nothing else. Game playing will potentially lead you to a campus where the student doesn’t preference.
Many of us would never let our kids ED - some for money purposes and others for what I just mentioned. And at some schools, btw, like Brown who specifically says - ED is for getting an earlier answer but the decision won’t differ than RD.
So I disagree with your counselor because this is life - and not to see - which great school can my kid get into.
Cornell - I’d go TO, especially if unhooked
Please get her out and see which place she really, really wants to be vs. a highly ranked school she can get into.
You can definitely apply without touring. There are other ways to demonstrate interest: requesting interviews, doing virtual tours and information sessions if offered, and meeting with a school’s rep if they visit your D’s high school. Not all schools measure demonstrated interest, anyway. Then, after acceptances are in, you can decide which schools to visit/revisit.
But since you’re in the Northeast and so are most schools she’s interested in, you can back off the touring for awhile, and just take a couple of short trips here and there over the summer and into fall.
This is not a matter of concern at all. The colleges she’s considering don’t admit by major, and she’ll have till the end of sophomore year to declare. It’s very typical to change. The only students who need to map things out beforehand are those who are considering majors with lots of requirements and very clear sequences of courses (like engineering), those who are applying for high-demand majors in schools that admit by majors (often comp sci), or those who are considering concentrations or second majors that will take up a lot of available course slots (like pre-med – not a major, but you need to be on top of required courses). Otherwise, there’s no need for a clear focus right now. Ask broadly about special resources and opportunities in various areas of interest – those might vary from school to school, but she can find opportunities anywhere.
. Some of these might vibe better with Vassar, but others definitely won’t, but might vibe more with BU. And if Middlebury’s in consideration, then I interpreted some latitude from there as well. So, this list is a bit scattershot, but for good reason!