Just reading the old thread - she doesn’t want to ED and she no longer wants to tour.
That she doesn’t want ED means you shouldn’t ED. And as I noted earlier, that she doesn’t want to tour means you should stop.
You noted - she has time - but kid’s psyche’s are frail - and some of us parents are go, go, go - but the kids aren’t.
And you need to have your kid gassed up for app times, not indifferent.
So don’t ED - and still apply to schools that she likes - but EA or RD.
And if she doesn’t get in, oh well - it wasn’t meant to be - and there’s plenty of SUNY, other public or less competitive private that for policy, will be just fine - and give her a great experience.
Truth is, if she’s not as competitive in personality, some of those high profile may not work for her either.
And don’t forget, once she’s in college - she will have to be self motivated. Some kids do better away from home without that kick in the butt but others don’t.
But go back to your earlier emails - she’s telling you her desires - and I do think you need to listen. I didn’t always - and it costs you - in strained relationship and in forcing kids to something they’ve got no interest in.
Based on what you’re reporting as your daughter’s reactions to schools, she does not sound like a good ED candidate. She is very fortunate that she has a family that is willing and able to pay full freight at some very expensive colleges. If your family is paying upwards of $400k/year for her to go to college, it should be at a school that she is excited to attend.
Additionally, many families report how their kids change from wanting (or strongly not desiring) one type of school, and then they…change their minds! Students are continuing to evolve throughout the process, so to choose a school that is, at best, “it’s fine…maybe” and commit to it 100% if you get in is a real hard circumstance, particularly if she ends up changing her mind about anything.
Because your family is willing to be full pay, that also opens up doors at schools that are need-aware. Frankly, I don’t think that ED should be a part of any discussions at this time, and certainly not until she is excited about a school.
She’s been to all those top 3 schools multiple times. Visited Cornell 3 times, including regular tour. Toured Vassar twice. Has visited BU 3 times, including tour and including living there for a 2 week summer program.
Obviously, those 3 are each very different. But as of now, with maybe Amherst thrown into the mix, those are the ones that she actually wants to go to.
Ultimately, I’ll support her decision and back her up. But her advisor and counselor are strongly urging her to do ED. As she would be pretty miserable if she waited for RD and got rejected by those 3-4.
Absolutely do not pressure her to do ED unless she has a clear favorite. So much changes just within the application cycle – if she’s not ready to commit, don’t ask her to. Buyer’s remorse can be pretty strong with students who are admitted ED to a school that was never the far-and-away favorite.
The ED advantage can be kind of overblown at most schools – it’s skewed by the number of recruited athletes who are mostly admitted ED, especially at small schools, which tend to have a higher percentage of athletes than larger ones. Remember that in the RD round, many schools have to be more careful of yield, so even if they’ve filled half the class ED, they still need to admit several times the number of remaining spots to make sure they fill. This isn’t to say there is no ED advantage – there is. But it’s not as pronounced as one might think. With a few exceptions (Middlebury comes to mind) a student who would get into a school in the ED round has an excellent shot of being admitted RD, too. [I’ll add my personal experience – my D23 got admitted in the RD round by several schools that were more selective than the one that rejected her in the ED round.]
Multiple visits per school? No wonder she’s got tour fatigue. That’s really overdoing it, unless there was a specific reason to visit the school several times (i.e., to visit a close friend or sibling). That said, it’s a good idea to visit a few schools that are in the target/likely range, so she can get excited about some schools that are not reaches. But just once each! And wait till she has the appetite for more visits.
It’s over the course of several years, including visits with her brother. The schools that she actually likes, she requests to see multiple times. Seeing BU again 1 more time this summer.
Her list is down to 4 schools she actually wants to apply to ( Cornell, BU, Vassar and Amherst), 1 school I’m making her apply to (SUNY Binghamton because she should apply to at least 1 SUNY). Then she has about 10 schools she is willing to apply to, but doesn’t really like. She has eliminated a bunch of schools from consideration.
I’ve told her, whether to apply ED is up to her. But if she is only focused on RD, she needs more than 4 schools.
Which gets me back to my question, if she waits for RD at Cornell, should she submit a 1460 or go test optional.
I’ll leave it to others to weigh on on TO (my instinct would be to favor TO? But I’m not sure.) But please help her get excited about more schools than those four plus SUNY Binghamton. There are some great suggestions above. I would encourage you to look at Dickinson, GWU, American, Clark, UMAss, Maryland, and Delaware. Can’t recall without rereading the thread if any of these are now on the “no” list.
I am leaning toward TO (just my opinion).
I would not ED unless there is 100% a clear favorite (and even then things can change).
I would add a few more schools that she likes to the list.
Agreed those are all great schools.
She has crossed most of them off. She is willing to apply to GW since her brother goes there. She might apply to UMass but she really disliked it, she would rather just go to Binghamton. She agreed to apply to Clark if she really doesn’t get in anywhere else, and because it has EA.
She recently added Middlebury, Lehigh, Bates and Colby as maybes. She doesn’t know anything about them but she added them as schools to think about.
Great schools, but all reaches except Lehigh (though Lehigh is stronger in STEM fields – doesn’t really seem like a natural fit based on what you’ve said). And maybe she’ll get into some – but she needs to get excited about some schools she’s highly likely to get into.
Please do not wait until April of the student’s senior year to drop the cost constraints on her.
If you are not certain that you can afford $95k+ per year for four years, do the financial planning now so that you have the budget that you can tell the student before making the application lists.
Then don’t…even if she won’t tour or maybe some online tours, check out U Delaware, as an example Or TCNJ. Or Albany. Or UVM or UNH if not too far. Or for private, Ithaca would be a safety. She definitely needs a 2nd safety beyond Bing - in case.
She needn’t go check them out unless there’s a reason to - she doesn’t get into a school of desire, etc.
But applying to a school she up front doesn’t like makes no sense.
The new LACs are all strong and you might find one or two that don’t track interest - but I would definitely not tour her around - I just fear pre application burnout based on what you’ve described.
Some kids aren’t jazzed for a school but then get jazzed when they get in. And if she’d be happier at a school with big merit (or you would), there’s some merit providing LACs that might work instead of the Maine schools - from a Juniata, Ursinsus, Washiington College, Hobart, St. Lawrence, Geneseo, Gettysburg, Dickinson and more. And they can double as a 2nd/3rd safety or likely.
The money is saved in her 529, so barring a complete collapse in the market, it’s there. But I wouldn’t mind her spending less and saving for grad school.
For now, Cornell is the only school on her list that she actually likes with a tuition under $60, and with total under $85.
I’ve encouraged her to include some schools known for merit. So she is applying to GW, Brandeis, Clark, U Rochester. But she seems those all as back up.
Maybe she will change her mind once she gets acceptances and sees the merit packages.
She really doesn’t like the feel of state schools. She hated Albany, U Maryland. The only state school she liked was UVA but then she crossed it off for too big and too far.
Her counselor urged her to do UVM, so it’s on her list for now as a safer option.she hasn’t researched it yet.
This is where having the discussion up front matters.
It sounds like you are fine full pay - and ok with it. Cornell is $88,742 for direct billed (2024-25 year) unless you go to a state contract school. I don’t see a match there except maybe ILR - they are $66K.
If you were to say to your student, with a policy major, you’re likely going to grad school at some point - and you’re going to need loans and I don’t want that - so I’m limiting you to - and I’m just throwing out a #- $50K - then you have that discussion up front and eliminate any schools that can’t hit a #.
If you get to the point where a Vassar is already $90K+ and Bing is $32K and you want her to go to Bing so you can save for grad school - but you didn’t set the terms up front - then you can’t expect her to not pick the $90K school.
Kids at 18 don’t understand the economics and we read countless stories from parents/students that refused to set terms up front, realize later that they needed to, but don’t know how to tell their kids since they gave no restriction.
You certainly don’t need to restrict - that’s up to you. But if you think you want to, you need to plan that into your search.
This is great - tell us - and maybe we can help more. Or maybe not.
Not much further than UVA is W&M - much smaller - which sort of seems up her alley.
I think the big points are (to me):
Don’t overstress her - she has a list and it doesn’t need to be big
Is Bing the right state school for her or is a New Paltz or Geneseo bigger or a Delaware (good in policy) and people say the campus isn’t overly large or UVM
Maybe add a safety or two LAC or mid size - schools where you can see a lower cost and get a good admission.
I think you’re in good shape - she’s seen a lot already - and you can chance applying without visiting - some schools that trick interest you can do a few virtual things.
But you don’t have to go crazy as it sounds like she’s low key. In the end, you’re going to just one. Hopefully it’s one of the four she likes but of course, when you put all your eggs in the reach basket, things can go awry.
She had Geneseo on her list, she and her counselor crossed it off, as she already has safeties she would rather go to.
Curious why you think Lehigh would be wrong for her. I don’t know anything about it except that it’s in Pennsylvania. Think she only added it because it’s a “likely” admit.
Her counselor feels she has enough safeties.
She knows what she dislikes when she sees it.
so unfortunately, there isn’t much pattern I can discern. Likes Vassar and Amherst, dislikes Tufts and Wesleyan. Likes BU and Cornell, dislikes Bing and UMass.
Her counselor initially suggested she look at W&M. But she has now crossed off UVA as too far, so she crossed off W&M with it.
Well, I am in the opposing camp to the others as to submitting the scores / TO. Assuming that we are focusing on Cornell at the moment, first verify which school / college the particular major is in. Some are TO and some are test blind (with the latter making the decision easy).
If you have the option to submit, I personally would submit her current score every time. My rationale is looking at the 2019 CDS (i.e., pre Covid). This indicates that the middle 50% submitted scores between 1420 and 1540. Further, the math subsection was 720 and 800 and the ebrw was 680 and 760. Her scores are already within the middle 50% of all those elements.
I’m not sure what would be a compelling reason to not submit her current scores. Would slightly better scores help? Possibly. But that is not a guarantee. My point is that I think her current scores would check whatever box needs checking and the rest of the application would govern her admission decision.
My only hesitation on the above would be to have this discussion with her counselors at school. It sounds like they are incredibly experienced with Cornell admissions and I would follow their advice.