<p>Did the kid cheat to do well for the main goal of getting into the IB program, or was it just because he was too lazy to do his homework one night? Cheating on homework is not uncommon, lol…pretty much everyone has copied someone’s homework at some time, even the best students. I think that the punishment doled out by the school was too severe. If the kid cheated on a test or a quiz, or he plagiarized a report, then he certainly does deserve punishment. But homework? Even if you do actually do your homework, you go and then check it against someone else’s to determine how well you did (and, of course, erase your wrong answers). So, I’m confused as to why this punishment occurred at all.</p>
<p>Yanaj1 “The sophomore had signed an “Academic Honesty Pledge” at the beginning of the 2011-2012 school year that declares cheating is grounds for immediate removal from the advanced-level program; his mother also had signed it. According to the lawsuit, however, another school document states that a student will be removed from the program only after a second plagiarism offense.” So the punishment occurred because he and his mom signed a document stating specifically what would happen if he was caught cheating. Which he has admitted. The controversy is whether the second school document supersedes the first, which would mean he should get a second-chance.</p>
<p>Hi all, new poster here. This thread has certainly hit a raw nerve with me, and I really appreciate hearing all the different points of view. It is a complex topic, as I can attest to from my own experience in trying to raise the level of discussion here in my own school district. </p>
<p>Question: I don’t think I’ve seen this mentioned here yet - but what are your thoughts about the fact that the mother in this case (and co-signer of the AI certification) is employed as the Director of Enrollment/Human Resources for the school district at issue (that her son attends)?</p>
<p>xleading…Based on the number of asterisks in your last post, there is quite a bit I can tell about you. If you don’t want to be treated like a child, stop acting like one. Childish statements like “everybody cheats”, and likening cheating to “playing the game” speak to your level of experience, or lack thereof. Children try to rationalize and justify, adults accept responsibility. Let me know when you learn the difference. BTW…“King of Morals” would be the appropriate title…if you were paying attention. 
Good Luck to you!!</p>
<p>CCOfam…Welcome. I did read that fact about the mother in one of the external links from the original Mercury news story. It just highlights how weak the argument is that this family was confused by the “ambiguous” policy.</p>
<p>Oh, you can tell quite a bit about me because I cussed, can you? Please, inform me of your great wisdom about me because I’m sure you know much more about me than I do.</p>
<p>I never said everybody cheats, I said majority of students cheat. Which is statistically true ([Cheating</a> Fact Sheet - RESEARCH CENTER - Cheating Is A Personal Foul](<a href=“http://www.glass-castle.com/clients/www-nocheating-org/adcouncil/research/cheatingfactsheet.html]Cheating”>Cheating Fact Sheet - RESEARCH CENTER - Cheating Is A Personal Foul), [75</a> to 98 Percent of College Students Have Cheated](<a href=“http://education-portal.com/articles/75_to_98_Percent_of_College_Students_Have_Cheated.html]75”>75 to 98 Percent of College Students Have Cheated), for references).
And I don’t know if you’ve never heard the metaphor of life being a game, but that’s what I meant by playing the game. In fact, using “playing the game” as a metaphor for doing something morally ambiguous is quite common.</p>
<p>And what exactly am I accepting responsibility for? For other people cheating? No, they’re not my responsibility. Am I accepting responsibility for cussing at you? Sure, I accept responsibility for that and any repercussions that follow. Am I taking responsibility for thinking you’re a complete jerk who thinks himself better than those around him? Unfortunately, yes, because I really do hate judging people and I’m really, truly sorry for thinking you’re an *******. I mean, you’re probably a nice guy somewhere deep down, but I honestly just can’t see it, so I apologize for that. So how about you prove that YOU’RE an adult and take responsibility for the way you treat others?</p>
<p>^Got it. Must’ve completely misjudged you. You’re obviously not judgmental in the least and I take full responsibility for misunderstanding everything you didn’t say. Again…good luck to you. :)</p>
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<p>Based on what type of moral reasoning? What is ethical to one person could be unethical to another. Also, you can never truly understand the actions one fore takes until you’ve ‘stepped into his/her shoes.’</p>
<p>I’ll concede and say that the student was only hurting himself in the long run by cheating. But he isn’t the first nor the last or a minority in almost any school around the country. Just like Nixon’s Watergate, in his mind, and rightfully so, his only remorse is getting caught. I remember a story about how the Spartans use to starve their children when they sent them off to live in barracks. They would be forced to steal and if they got caught, they would be punished severely. The lesson learned was to be better thieves. Zero-tolerance policies won’t make cheating go away, it’ll only cause students to be stealth and sneaky about it. I don’t have an answer for this problem, I guess I could say that our emotions mask our thinking. We think that if we believe that we have a zero-tolerance policy (we really don’t), we feel better. If someone does something that upsets us, punishment is OK (kind of like when a family cries for the death penalty for the accused, instead of allowing him to live with the guilt forever).</p>
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<p>pacificvista…There are probably some circumstances where this is true, but there are also generally accepted ethical principles that nearly everyone believes. I fully admit there are people who will try to justify their actions for some reason or another, or because it leads to some outcome or another. Do you honestly know of anyone who could say with a straight face that cheating is ethical behavior though?</p>
<p>What’s interesting to me is seeing how things have changed over the years. In my HS days (many eons ago) we didn’t have a written Academic Integrity policy…because we didn’t need one. Were there students that cheated? Of course there were. But everyone knew and understood that cheating was unacceptable and if you got caught you got suspended. That was enough negative incentive to keep the cases to a handful.</p>
<p>No doubt students today face issues and pressures that students in the past didn’t have to deal with as much, or maybe not at all. But does that excuse unethical behavior? Any policy short of a zero tolerance one pretty much has no chance of stemming the trend of increased cheating. Why would it? Students aren’t stupid…they know if they don’t have to face any real consequences there’s no reason to change their behavior. </p>
<p>So what’s appropriate? Give them an “F” on the project/assignment? If a student tries their best to do an assignment, puts in the work, but does it incorrectly they may receive an F. Do you really want a student who cheated on that same assignment to receive the same grade? Do you equate effort without comprehension to stealing someone else’s work?</p>
<p>Failing the class is an appropriate penalty for cheating. I fully realize that failure in certain classes (core vs elective, Honors vs regular, etc.) has more far-reaching ripple effects but application of the penalty should be based on the act itself, not on the individual outcomes. The responsbility for considering the consequences lies with the student who is contemplating cheating, not with the school. That is the only fair way to administer an Academic Integrity policy IMO…all students are treated equally and there’s no allowance for preferential treatment. Any student, any course level, any form or fashion of cheating is handled the same way. There should be no question in anyone’s mind what their actions will lead to.</p>
<p>No policy will ever completely stop cheating, but unless students fear that their actions will limit their opportunities in the future their behavior probably won’t change.</p>
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<p>What about having him removed from the class with an “F,” asking the school to include the cheating on his permanent record, and forbidding him to take any advanced level courses? Why are those not punishments you would insist on? Better yet, why wouldn’t you write a letter to every college your son applies to, informing them that he cheated? He CHEATED, after all.</p>
<p>Bay…I’d actually have no problem with doing those things. I feel that strongly about cheating. I think having to explain why they chose to cheat would make a great essay topic. That’s why I also stated that I’d do everything I could to change the school’s policy. I don’t expect you to believe me, that’s your perogative. But you asked for an answer to a completely unrealistic scenario, so I gave you one.</p>
<p>I truly hope you wouldn’t do those things to your kids, Wolverine. I hope none of your kids ever gets caught cheating, because I think it would blow your family apart. Ruining your relationship with your child isn’t worth teaching a lesson about one instance of cheating in high school.</p>
<p>On the other hand, given the position you’ve taken on this thread, I don’t see how you would have any choice but to take those actions against your kid. Otherwise, you are a hypocrite.</p>
<p>No worries Bay. My kids won’t get caught cheating, because they don’t cheat. Not because they’re afraid of their school’s AI policy, not because they’re afraid I’ll write letters to their prospective universities, but because we’ve raised them to know that it’s wrong. No excuses, no justifications, no quibbling. They know it’s wrong and, more importantly, they BELIEVE that it’s wrong. They’ve all had classmates that cheated and got caught, and they were just as angry about it as I was and thought it was just as pathetic as I did. I appreciate your concern for my kids, but they’re all perfectly happy, well adjusted, hard-working and honest. I hope all the “gray area” parents on here can say the same for their kids…and actually know it’s true.</p>
<p>Given the statistics on cheating that it may include upto 98%, why does every parent on this thread think their kids are all in the honest 2% in this country? </p>
<p>I for one believe that &*(t happens sometimes and kids screw up and as parents we have to be prepared to handle it. I am ok with every other parent believing their kids are all honest Abes and delude themselves.</p>
<p>I have great kids, too, but I know they are not perfect, and neither am I.</p>
<p>Bay and texaspg…I never claimed my kids, or any kids for that matter, are perfect. I simply said they don’t cheat. How do they get statistics to say 98% cheat? Who knows, and who cares? Maybe they only interviewed students in the Texas schools you were discussing earlier. Any pollster can make any poll show whatever statistics they want to promote their theory. If you want to assume your children are in the 98% then go ahead. If you have that little faith and belief in the values you instilled in them, knock yourselves out.</p>
<p>Bay - welcome to the club - great ain’t synonymous with perfect or infallible. </p>
<p>This does seem to elude a lot of people.</p>
<p>I would have to agree that saying that one never cheats on homework, on tests, on papers, etc., does not equate to saying one is perfect. </p>
<p>The 98% number quoted earlier came from a question which asked if the students had “ever” cheated I believe. That’s not the same as saying 98% are frequent or serial cheaters, however.</p>
<p>I am as far from perfect as a person could be. I cheated once on a spelling checkoff in third grade. I felt so disgusted with myself that I never did it again. EVER. So, while I would fall in that “98%,” I really wasn’t a cheater in any meaningful sense. I learned my lesson internally and rejected cheating completely thereafter. I think there may be a lot of kids like that who are generally very academically honest. I really doubt that 98% of kids are habitual cheaters or view it as cavalierly as we are being led to believe. The “everyone does it” mantra which has been bandied about for generations wasn’t true when our grandparents were saying it, and it’s not true now, no matter the subject.</p>
<p>Not sure why everyone is picking on Wolverine. There are kids, like mine, who–when faced with the choice between having to cheat or doing busy work when they just didn’t feel like doing it–would just not turn in the assignment. They know how many points toward their grade each assignment and test is worth, and they are pretty good at calculating the (relatively minor) impact of either not doing something or not doing it well if they either ran out of time or just didn’t feel like it.</p>
<p>This really does go back to the expectations parents place on their kids, and the values they espouse as a family. An occasional poor grade on a worksheet won’t get my kids in trouble. Lying or cheating would.</p>