<p>and the process takes 6 months minimum so it’s a serious time commitment</p>
<p>Agreed. Everyone’s character takes a hit if they cheat, regardless of how trivial it is. Every student at UVA feels the pang, takes the heartache of “what if I get caught”, and swears to never do it again. Other students know what that feeling is like and most stuff gets left alone. Usually it’s a simple homework or quiz. But it seems to be when a mass amount cheat on something, that’s when people get caught (they’re being dumb to cheat in such large numbers) which kinda sucks. Or when someone cheats BIG TIME on something that matters a lot. Again, no fine line. Just one big blurry one</p>
<p>OP and others: I’m having a really hard time with the OP’s original characterization and some of the following comments. As a UVa SEAS graduate, non-fraternity person, and someone who took the Honor System seriously, I don’t see how you can classify test banks as a form of “cheating”. There is absolutely no representation or guarantee that an old test has anything to do with a subsequent test. It thus cannot be considered as an advance test copy or an actual “cheat sheet”; if you rely on it you do so at your own risk. At most you can say an old test will deal with the same material as the actual exam, as is the case with problem sets, example textbook problems, and study guides. An exception would be if a professor specifically asked you not to use old tests (which I never heard happen).
And specifically to the OP: I understand that you may be upset to hear about this practice, but if you decide not to apply anyplace because of it, I guess you’re not going to college- this situation is universal.</p>
<p>It is cheating because it gives you a distinct advantage over other students who do not have access to your test bank. If you ask the prof first and they are okay with it (this in the past has ended up with profs releasing the tests to everyone as a study guide) then that would not be cheating but otherwise you’re doing exactly what cheating is, which is having an aid that no one else has access to (a person during the test, a resource during the test, or a resource before the test, it is all the same to me).</p>
<p>hazel- has the practice of using test banks actually been ruled a “cheating” offense per the Honor Code? If so then yes, it is a widespread offense and it is a mystery to me why it would be allowed to continue. If it is not a formal Honor Code offense, then it is a matter of opinion how you categorize it, but just bear in mind that lots of situations may be inequitable, and even seem “unfair”, without being considered “cheating”. Think about it- suppose that before a test I find a book or other reference that explains the material better, or even has examples that turn out to be very similar to the test questions. You could even stipulate that there is only one copy in the bookstore, or that the item is out of print! Am I really obligated to make that reference available to everybody in the class? If I don’t, am I really cheating? Suppose my father or a sibling is an expert in the field in question and I get help studying for a test? Am I required to make a public transcript of our discussions? If I can afford to pay big bucks for a private tutor, is it “cheating” if other students can’t afford one? At UVa in particular, where the possible sanction for cheating is so severe, I think it is important to draw necessary distinctions and define terms pretty carefully. In this situation I think the primary obligation is with the professors to avoid this problem by writing fresh tests.</p>
<p>There’s a major difference between outside help and previous tests from the same exact class at the same exact university. The fact that a student asked first really shows that they considered it an honor offense as well. Especially if professors specifically say when they distribute the resource that it is “only to be used by you personally for this class” etc.</p>
<p>“…but otherwise you’re doing exactly what cheating is, which is having an aid that no one else has access to…” </p>
<p>“There’s a major difference between outside help and previous tests from the same exact class at the same exact university…”</p>
<p>So, you have maybe revised your definition of what cheating is? Don’t get me wrong, Hazel, I’m not trying to quibble or pick a fight with anyone. I am just trying to think through to the heart of the matter and maybe help the OP, who is troubled by this practice at “our” university. Again, if a professor told me I was not to use old tests for study purposes, I would abide by that (and not question the professor’s reasoning). But otherwise I honestly do not see an ethical problem with it. To me an old test is nothing more than one more potential source of study material. And the fact that not all students have equal access to all possible/available resources doesn’t bother me- in fact that will always be the case.</p>
<p>I do not know what iUVA a honor codes says. The honor code in my alma mater required the students to sign that he/she “has not asked or received aid during during this exam” (or test, project… ). Studying past tests/exams available to some may not be fair but was not considered cheating. I guess the key here is during the time of the test or writing the report. </p>
<p>Professors and adminitrators knows this practice and the could even the field if the want. IF graded tests/exams are returned, they should be able to save electronic copies to be available to all.</p>
<p>I can’t believe you’re even still trying to defend using tests a professor specifically says not to distribute as not cheating (on the distribution and usage sides).</p>
<p>Hazel, please read my posts. I have said that if a professor indeed provides specific instructions to not use old tests, fine. As I have also previously written, no professor I ever had gave such instructions. The closest any professor ever came to doing this would be to tell us not to discuss a current test before it was given to a later section of a class, usually later on that same day or maybe on the following day. To my knowledge, my classmates adhered to that. But what we are discussing is just not the same thing. Again, your position on this seems to be based on the premise that an old test by definition is just an older copy of a new, or current test. In general you cannot say that ,i.e., your premise is wrong. If however in a specific case it turns out to be true, then the professor himself is negligent, because once he hands back graded papers he has no realistic expectation of being able to control their future use-those papers belong to the students. For everyone’s sake the professor needs to bear this in mind when he writes new tests.
It woud be interesting to hear an Honor Court (or even a Law School student) opinion on this.</p>
<p>Well my opinion is based on all of my interactions with multiple faculty members as a TA, who all consider fraternities keeping banks of old tests to be cheating. Just so you know what the faculty think. The ones I work with always instruct students that they are not allowed to discuss the test outside of the current class section ever…</p>
<p>Wow. Back in the day old tests used to be on file at the Clark Hall library. I guess a lot has changed in 30 years!</p>
<p>Tiredofsnow: Your perspective is apparently a lot more like mine-old tests were used openly as study guides by a lot of students (ironically, I didn’t do much of that myself). Yours is a good post because it might get current students (and others) to see that things like this can be viewed in different ways. I really hate to hear from a prospective student who is actually upset because of this, especially since it is so commonly practiced at all kinds of schools, with and without honor codes. Of course one of the arguments forwarded here is that it’s not a fair situation if not everyone has equal access to the materials, and I don’t know how that stands for all courses and all professors. But my guess is that with respect to the Honor System this is viewed no differently than it was in the past, rather the attitudes and opinions of some individuals have changed, in some cases pretty dramatically.</p>
<p>I can’t believe you wouldn’t consider looking into old tests as cheating… A lot of professors tend to formulate either exact questions from old tests or questions that are similar.</p>
<p>again, barboza, professors may engage in a variety of habits or practices but without the actual presumption that old test questions=new test questions (a presumption that cannot be made even by a student using the old test) I don’t see how that is cheating per se. A simple fix would be for professors to tell students directly “I expect you not to use old tests”. Some may shy away from giving that injunction because they don’t want to admit openly that they never change their tests, I don’t know. But, as tiredofsnow’s post above suggests, many professors over the years have NOT considered this as cheating- as he says, the engineering library itself carried files of old tests! And I have heard some teachers actually challenge students to use old tests (as if to say, “you’ll be sorry if you rely just on that”), and left it at that.</p>
<p>barboza, the teachers themselves put the old tests on file in the library, so it wasn’t too hard to find a copy, and evidently, since the teachers placed them there, they wanted the students to have access to them.</p>
<p>If you ask the teacher, and they don’t care if you use old tests, how is that cheating? I would imagine most teachers would not use the test verbatim over and over for years. </p>
<p>If somehow you are obtaining a copy of a current (i.e. “new”) test (for instance, offered in an earlier class time than you have), then yes, I agree that would be cheating.</p>
<p>ASK THE TEACHER. Or don’t ask the teacher, and don’t seek out old tests. That’s the bottom line.</p>
<p>Thanks weldon, glad you get it (but I’m a “she”).</p>
<p>I think we’ve all made our opinions clear and agree to disagree so this might need to be locked at this point.</p>
<p>sorry, tiredofsnow- no offense intended</p>
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<p>Agreed. Cheating is a morals thing. Cheating occurs everywhere, including UVa, whether there’s an honor code or not, or whether teachers allow you to use old tests or not. It’s up to each individual person to decide whether or not to cheat and whether or not to report someone else.</p>
<p>Well said, shoebox10. I will say that in my time at the U I took the honor code very seriously. I like to think that most students still do.</p>
<p>weldon, no offense taken - how could you know?</p>