Cheating...

<p>A good friend of mine cheated on a test and got caught. Almost everyone in that class cheats, but he was one of the first to be caught because, from what he tells me, his teacher doesn't seem to like him. He told me that he talked to his counselor and she said that, although it is in her files, she is the only one who can see it and only her and the teacher who caught him cheating will know about this, and that they will not send this to any colleges and colleges will not know about it, unless he were to cheat again, in which it would go on his actual record. He is truly a smart person and I hope he can succeed. He is applying to schools like Yale, Brown, Harvard, etc. he has a 4.6 gpa, class rank of 1/480ish, 2380 sat score, 3 800s on sat IIs, and 8 5s on ap tests. he is president of 4 different large organizations and has gotten his name published in a medical journal. do you think he has a chance at these schools? and would they find out about the cheating in any way? his counselor said that they "will not send this information to colleges" ('this information' being his cheating incident), so would they find out?</p>

<p>It's somewhat greedy of the school for them not to tell, although I guess it depends on the degree of infraction. Your friend would know his situation the best, and he probably needs to trust the counselor. But cheating on a test, with grades like he has, is a ridiculously stupid plan. It shows a lack of maturity. Personally, I know some people who were accused of consistent cheating, and got into some very selective colleges, but they didn't make a lot of friends in the process. Personally, he should have gotten a 0 on the test, although I don't know that any other action should necessarily happen, as I don't know all the circumstances. But if people got 0s for cheating more often, they'd cheat less.</p>

<p>Why does it feel that you seem more distressed about this predicament than your friend?</p>

<p>I pity 'amazing' students who feel the need to cheat. It speaks of messed up priorities (grades over self-improvement, the appearance of being perfect over actual perfectionism, etc.). The "president of four organizations" bit only reinforces this impression.</p>

<p>CommonApp will ask both your friend and his counsellor to indicate on his application if he has ever been involved in a disciplinary incident of any nature. I know that my college counsellor would never conceal such information from universities and I am kind of surprised that your school would.</p>

<p>To answer your question, if nobody tells Harvard that someone is a cheater, Harvard won't know. Obviously.</p>

<p>kartrider360, you make a very valid point. It does indeed seem like the OP is more concerned with the situation than his friend. Or perhaps, the OP is the one in the situation, and is merely trying to conceal that fact by saying it was his friend who cheated. Hmm...</p>

<p>Yah, these types of posts always come up on CC. If you are actually the person in question, then I should remind you that you are anonymous on the internet and should be ashamed of anything you post (unless you're being a ****** bag of course).
If you're telling the truth, I suggest perhaps to slap some sense into your friend because his priorities are messed up.</p>

<p>
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If you're telling the truth, I suggest perhaps to slap some sense into your friend because his priorities are messed up.

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</p>

<p>Real talk.</p>

<p>I will skip the part about you asking for the friend. I don't have the brainpower to analyze that.</p>

<p>You friend should ask the GC point blank about how to honestly answer on the Common App, and how the GC will answer the question regarding disciplinary action. We may be talking about a very grey line here were the event was recorded, but the student did not receive a formal referral therefore he was not subject to a 'disciplinary action'. He would be wise to make sure he and the GC are on the same page with this. To have conflicting answers on this would be worse then to have the cheating noted and explained. Then the student has cheated AND lied.</p>

<p>The sheer volume of students that cheat in hs is staggering. I was getting on my son quite a bit about his AP Chem lecture grade earlier in the year (lab he was fine). After a couple of months of mom asking about that grade (B) he finally said that 90% of the students cheat, many have a lower grade even when they cheat, and he was honestly doing the best he could. From that point on I never asked about the class again. I didn't want to be the one that put the pressure on him that made him make that one stupid decision at a weak moment where he was likely to get caught...murphy's law. He ended up with a lower grade than some of his peers but a higher score on his SAT2 and AP exam. He did feel pretty good about that and it was a good feeling that he'd done his own work. He will NEVER have to take chem again due to his AP score. Many, many of the students who cheated will be slugging through it again in college. Not always, but sometimes, karma will bite you in the kiester.</p>

<p>". Almost everyone in that class cheats, but he was one of the first to be caught because, from what he tells me, his teacher doesn't seem to like him. "</p>

<p>Riiiiight. The teacher deliberately chose that student to catch cheating because she doesn't like him. She loves all of the other students who cheat.....</p>

<p>I suspect the OP is a regular poster who changed his name to write about his "friend."</p>

<p>If the story that the OP posted is true, the school has such a massive cheating problem because the counselors lie to colleges by not letting the colleges know about cheating infractions. It's too bad that students from such a school may get spots at top colleges that should go to honest students including students from schools where the guidance counselors also are honest.</p>

<p>Some students really do earn their good grades the honest way.</p>

<p>Right on, Northstarmom. Right on. Also, 18,106 posts is kind of crazy.</p>

<p>OP, "your friend" will still be asked to report on the CommonApp any infractions whether or not they're on his permanent record.</p>

<p>First off, he got a 0 on the test, a saturday school, and other various punishments
Secondly, our school, although a public school, is ranked one of the best in the country and constantly gets students into the top colleges every year.
And lastly, I know the internet is anonymous. This really is my friend, and he is really stressed about this, which is why he asked me to start this discussion on this website when he was over last night.
Oh and also, I take that class with him in which he was caught. The teacher told him that, although he noticed other students cheating, that my friend was cheating ""most blatantly"
I noted that many other students cheat because, he is really a good guy, but he had a weak moment when he gave into the peer pressure to cheat.
Thanks for the more polite replies.</p>

<p>The Common Application's only question regarding this area is the following:
"Have you ever been found responsible for a disciplinary violation at an educational institution you have attended from 9th grade (or the international equivalent)
forward, whether related to academic misconduct or behavioral misconduct, that resulted in your probation, suspension, removal, dismissal, or expulsion from
the institution?"
Since your friend was not suspended, removed, dismissed, etc. then he can honestly say no to this question.
Also, in the Guidance Counselor's Recommendation in the common app, unlike the teacher's recommendation section, there is no box that he/she will check to inform the colleges of your integrity. He/She is given the same question as you (the one I quoted above). Since you go to a public school, I would clarify with you counselor the meaning of this question and inform/remind him/her that you were not suspended, given probation, etc. and therefore she should answer no to this question.</p>

<p>From what you have stated he did in fact have an infraction (Saturday School, other various punishments). This is not something that was simply just noted in his file and tucked away in case something else came up. So we come back to the question on the Common APP regarding infractions. It sounds as though he is going to have to say yes...if he is going to be honest. It is better to be a cheat, then a cheat AND a lier. Before he gets all worked up he really, really needs to sit down with his GC with a copy of the Common APP (print it out, there is a sample available online), along with a sample of the GC form, and ask them how the GC will be filling it out and how the student should fill it out. It needs to match. If what you originally stated was correct, this doesn't go further, then he will mark no and not worry about it, but he's got to check with the GC. Also, have the GC make a note in the students file of the conversation and what they spoke about. "On 8/2 discussed Common App with John Doe. He was instructed to mark no infractions, as will the school.".</p>

<p>Not that this makes any difference, but your friend is no less guilty because of who was or was not cheating on that day, how many times he cheated, or if he's a good guy. Wrong is wrong. There is no fair and not fair here. Your friend cheated and was caught. Don't get me started on what isn't going to be fair about your friend NOT marking an infraction on his application when my son can honestly say he did not have any. One is true, another is not. So you tell me, in the world of admissions, which is fair? I'm not looking for an answer here. Just something to think about before he starts whining again about what is fair.</p>

<p>Thank you californiagirls. Actually, one saturday school was his only punishment besides receiving a zero on the test. teachers give saturday schools and detentions all the time for having several missing assignments, being late to class 3 times, etc. that doesnt mean that every one of those students marks "yes" to the question. and if you read it carefully, the question never states the word "infraction", it asks if you have had a disciplinary action for which you received at least on of the following: expulsion, probation, suspension, dismissal, or removal. He was never suspended, expelled, or put on probation ever. therefore, I believe that the only way he can honestly answer the question is to answer "no", since he has never receieved any of these. I'm sure his counselor will agree since she said that colleges will not be informed about him cheating.
Thank you again californiagirls for the direct evidence.</p>

<p>hellocollege123, </p>

<p>Just to satisfy my parental skepticism, you say that you are also in this class that everyone cheats in, so I guess we should assume that you have cheated as well, correct?</p>

<p>As for your friend's situation, I have no idea how your GC will handle things, maybe he'll tell the schools your friend applies to or maybe he'll forget about it fearing legal repercussions from your friends parents. The simple problem is that by cheating your friend has brought up the nagging questions of "Has he cheated before?" and "How do we know how real his performance truly is given this cheating escapade?". I suspect that if your GC tells his colleges of the incident he will be rejected - why should an elite institution take a caught cheater when they have ample honest students (or at least more effective cheaters) to choose from? The fact is that your friend will probably never know if he was rejected because of the competition or because of the incident. By cheating he's given schools a reasonable excuse to say "No Thank You".</p>

<p>I agree with the previous advice about consulting with the guidance counselor. The worst thing would be for the school to report it but have a conflicting answer on the application.</p>

<p>However, I don't think choosing to reveal this incident necessarily means all is lost. What matters most is how your friend changed as a result. The common app instructs you to submit an explanation essay about the circumstances of the incident and what you learned from the incident</p>

<p>If your friend can show real remorse and a better grasp on the merits of honest work and effort, I think a college admissions officer wouldn't automatically write him off. (Obviously just my opinion).</p>

<p>Just something to think about.</p>

<p>It seems that a case could be made that he is on probation, one of the terms about which the common application asks. If he is not on probation, what would you call his current status?</p>

<p>Compare the description of what the counselor said to a general definition of probation in the criminal context and a specific description of academic probation:</p>

<p>From the original post:
[quote]
He told me that he talked to his counselor and she said that, although it is in her files, she is the only one who can see it and only her and the teacher who caught him cheating will know about this, and that they will not send this to any colleges and colleges will not know about it, unless he were to cheat again, in which it would go on his actual record.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Definition of probation, from Business Dictionary . com:
[quote]
Release of a convicted criminal (usually a first offender, young offender, or an aged offender convicted of a minor crime) from custody, subject to good behavior under specified conditions.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>From EHow . com:
[quote]
Academic Probation
Although some universities have a zero-tolerance policy, meaning if you cheat once then you are expelled, many schools start by giving the student a warning and placing him on academic probation. This will most likely include a written warning that goes on file at the office of student affairs. Probation shows the student the seriousness of the offense, and that subsequent offenses will be taken much more seriously. The student will also likely receive a failing grade for the assignment.

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</p>

<p>Although your friend did cheat, OP, I think what he should be more worried about is determining what he learned from the incident and how he can grow wiser after having done something like this. I know this isn't the answer you're looking for, but your friend is only cheating himself if he doesn't acknowledge the fact that he did do something wrong. More times than not, the lessons we learn from our mistakes far outweigh the punishments given. And in the case that he does have to mark "Yes" on his apps, he'll be much better prepared to explain why he did what he did and the lessons he took from it - which could lessen his crime in the eyes of the admissions officers.</p>