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<p>Remember this guy?</p>
<p><a href=“Rich Idiot Thinks 1% Are Being Treated Like Jews In Nazi Germany - Gothamist”>http://gothamist.com/2014/01/25/rich_idiot_thinks_1_is_being_treate.php</a></p>
<p>These people are not doing themselves any favors with their whining and faux outrage.</p>
<p>Wouldn’t it be fascinating to get Tal Fortgang’s take on that guy’s argument?</p>
<p>“But here again, you’re buying into Fortgang’s entirely fanciful and unsupported claim that he was ever shut down or silenced by anybody. There’s this fantasy that the poor beleaguered conservative makes some sensible statement, and then is “shut down” by the utterance of this all-powerful phrase, presumably causing him to slink away in shame. I don’t believe it for one second.”</p>
<p>I get it, Hunt. You’re going with the thought that he’s just a whining liar. Probably not a single thing that he or anyone could say could change your mind.</p>
<p>Except that most of us have been around awhile, and we’ve seen the same sort of attitude. People getting shut down all the time because of “political correctness”. Enough material to give those poor beleaguered types plenty of ammunition to overreact.</p>
<p>You’re right that I don’t believe Fortgang, because he doesn’t do what a truthful person in his situation would do: describe an example that he experienced. It’s also obvious that his screed matches a world-view of a lot of people (which was why he was invited on Fox), but the actual examples of this attitude actually shutting anybody down are few and far between. And, I point out, that the “Princeton Tory” is allowed to exist and publish on his campus–so he’s not being shut down at all.</p>
<p>I also note, in passing, that his article might not have achieved such success if he had complained about the phrase, “Fortgang, stop being such an elitist jerk.”</p>
<p>“Elitist jerks banned at Princeton.” That is actually a hilarious concept. </p>
<p>Busdriver wrote: *“I have read arguments that polite conversation rarely facilitates major social change.”</p>
<p>But telling people to sit down, shut up, and keep their feet off the seats does?</p>
<p>I think that just creates resentment and a predictable backlash. *</p>
<p>“Blood Done Sign My Name” by Timothy Dyson: a friend gave me this book to read last year. It describes a murder and race relations in Oxford NC during the 70s. If I understand correctly, one of the arguments the author makes (or reports others making) is that until white residents experienced economic hardship or fear, no change took place. I don’t think anyone reading about Oxford in the 70s would argue serious change wasn’t needed. The people who needed change to happen were always being told “sit down, shut up, and keep their feet off the seats” They had to change that conversation for anything to happen. At least that is how I understood it. ymmv</p>
<p>BD: I could think of more examples but that one already takes us off topic. I just wanted to respond to your follow-up to my comment.</p>
<p>“If I understand correctly, one of the arguments the author makes (or reports others making) is that until white residents experienced economic hardship or fear, no change took place. I don’t think anyone reading about Oxford in the 70s would argue serious change wasn’t needed. The people who needed change to happen were always being told “sit down, shut up, and keep their feet off the seats” They had to change that conversation for anything to happen. At least that is how I understood it.”</p>
<p>Yet, telling the people who are supposed to be the oppressors (by virtue of their sex or skin color, not by what they have done) are the ones being told to shut up, and that’s supposed to be useful? And believe me, there are plenty of white people with serious economic hardship right now. They don’t need a lesson in understanding.</p>
<p>See, I just don’t get it. I don’t believe that I ever will. I think you treat EVERYONE with respect, and if they have an opinion you disagree with, you argue against it. You relay your own stories and opinions. If anyone has something to say, it gets listened to. You get your point across with conversation, not shut up, we don’t want to listen to your type. I know this is a fairly common agenda nowadays, to shut people up, but I don’t think you win people over to your side that way. </p>
<p>I know I’m a beneficiary of white privilege. That doesn’t necessarily mean I’m an oppressor. At least I hope it doesn’t. </p>
<p>As Hunt as pointed out, Princeton Kid hasn’t been silenced. He is on Fox news. Maybe we could start a list of those actually silenced.</p>
<p>Ah, but those actually silenced will probably keep on being silenced. They will allow themselves to continue to be intimidated. Most people will not get on Fox news. The fact that Princeton Kid wrote an article that caught media attention and got a platform doesn’t mean that it’s fine to shut down everyone you disagree with. Most people would not get published, nor get on TV.</p>
<p>As far as being a beneficiary of white privilege…I’ll just taking a wild guess that you are normal weight and attractive. But put yourself in the place of a middle aged/older overweight woman, who isn’t particularly attractive and is looking for a job. Do you think you’re getting the full benefit of that white privilege now? Talk about an oppressed class of people.</p>
<p>If you google news for “Fortgang,” you get pages of results about this incident. I think this indicates that what this phrase evokes in people is not a minor deal.</p>
<p>fdsfsdsff</p>
<p>busdriver, I’m starting to lose the point of your argument. Are you denying that white privilege exists? Are you suggesting that an older, overweight white woman has the same challenges as an older, overweight black woman in the workplace? We all get older and less attractive. Privilege is not just how we look. Even as I get older (but hopefully not overweight–that is somewhat within my control) I recognize that I still have an advantage over many people in my age bracket. I’m still white, I still have decades of “majority” treatment going back to my birth, I still enjoy family resources that provide an invaluable safety net. Yes, I have faced my own challenges–premature babies, the early death of my mother, divorce, multiple job losses–but I don’t feel sorry for myself and I cannot imagine that anyone else would either. I happen to live in a city and state with the nation’s worst racial achievement gap in our schools. The deck is literally stacked against poor minority kids here. Forgive me if I can’t shed a tear for the silent, beleaguered masses who have been reminded they are luckier than most on their way to the squash court or eating club.</p>
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<p>LOL Does that mean you are bored, dadx? How about coming up with something thought-provoking to get this thread going again? :)</p>
<p>“The deck is literally stacked against poor minority kids here. Forgive me if I can’t shed a tear for the silent, beleaguered masses who have been reminded they are luckier than most on their way to the squash court or eating club.”</p>
<p>But isn’t a better response to this to figure out ways to level the playing field? Think we have made some progress but obviously not enough. But phrases like “check your privilege” just become a weapon, and provoke more of a divide between the two extremes.</p>
<p>It’s not an either/or thing. Of course the better response is to figure out how to level the playing field. But people like Fortgang who say “I apologize for nothing” and are seemingly devoid of empathy are not likely to be part of the solution, because they don’t acknowledge the problem exists. And for the record I have never heard (or heard of) anyone in our minority community say something like “check your privilege” to a white person, nor do they blame privileged white people for their problems. The incidence of use of this “weapon” seems to be grossly exaggerated by people who believe the playing field has already been leveled. And remember, in the Princeton kid’s case, he believes passing on financial assets and beliefs is altruism and sacrifice enough.</p>
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<p>What was the point of this? No one cares. All that matters is that you are white, so you are privileged. Quit whining. ;)</p>
<p>Bay…Sorry about that. Was simply trying to write over one of the many drafts that I thought better of posting. :)</p>
<p>I think this discussion has remarkable parallels to the “I too am Harvard” thread. I’m on the other side of this one, though.</p>
<p>“I believe that privilege — racial, normative, gendered and moneyed — exists. And, I think that discussions about said privileges and wanting those who benefit from them to acknowledge the benefit, and the luxury of living without deleterious labels, is a valid one. It shouldn’t be about condemning a person for an identity that, in many cases, they were born into, but about giving proper weight and measurement to cultural advantage, and thereby coming to better understand cultural disadvantage.”</p>
<p>This is Charles Blow’s response to a question about privilege. It echoes my thoughts. I teach a college sociology class on Ethnic and Race Relations and the point of teaching about white privilege is simply to help students understand cultural disadvantage. Never to make anyone feel guilt or responsibility. </p>
<p>Like @Sally305, I’ve never heard anyone utter the “check your privilege” but understand it exists on college campuses. While I understand that all of us can highlight and recognize our own personal “disadvantages” (age/gender/socioeconomic status) as the author of the article did, that does not negate the reality of white privilege. </p>
<p>@Pizzagirl, I like your anecdote, and I think your daughter has a great sense of humor. my daughter and I joked similarly about how her college was so sensitive to gay and transgender issues that it often felt politically incorrect to talk about their heteronormative interest in well, guys. </p>
<p>* I happen to live in a city and state with the nation’s worst racial achievement gap in our schools. *</p>
<p>Is that because its a diverse city or is it like the tony suburb of Lexington with 1.5% blacks?
I have been a volunteer in the public schools for decades.
There are cultural reasons why some immigrants are doing much better than some minorities.</p>
<p>Makes me glad my kids attend places where they are much more likely to encounter phrases like 'check your board dude, waves are coming …check your sunscreen…should be SPF 30+, check the gas tank…time for us all to pitch in.</p>