<p>At some high schools, I gather the cheering from the audience for each graduate during the diploma ceremony at graduation has gotten out of hand and has disrupted the graduation or parents can’t hear their child’s name. We don’t have that problem here. But anyway, I understand the problem described in the article. The school did inform students and parents that no cheering for individual names would be allowed. I’m not saying I agree or disagree with that rule but that was their rule and they apparently had just cause for it due to problems in the past at graduation. </p>
<p>However, the consequence doled out sounds rather harsh. Supposedly five kids who while receiving their diploma, had cheers coming from the audience. Because that broke the rule, they were denied getting their diploma. I guess they are allowed to get one eventually if they complete a certain number of hours of community service. </p>
<p>The thing is, the kid getting the diploma can’t control those in the audience. Anyone could yelp for the graduate…it may not even be his/her invited guests. Why should the graduate be punished? There has got to be another way to handle it, I would think. Perhaps the person at the podium calling off names stops the ceremony if there is any yelping and reiterates the rule. Or perhaps there are a lot of security personnel who remove those from the audience who cheer and they announce that as the diploma parade begins. I dunno but it seems very harsh to punish the graduate for the behaviors of those in the audience. They worked to earn those diplomas. If the cheering is a problem, there must be another solution. </p>
<p>Is it common practice to deny a diploma for this? I gather it isn’t or it would not have made the news.</p>
<p>That seems really petty, and stupid. If I were one of the students I would tell them to keep their diploma. At the end of the day what difference does it make?</p>
<p>I understand how it feels to not hear a name called - at college graduation, because of a miscue with music and some other noise, did not get to hear my daughter’s name called. There was noise and then she was walking towards the president of the university and shaking her hand. When she returned to her seat, she sent to me a text message saying “did you hear my name called”??? - in the audience, I had a quick discussion with our friends; the lot of us decided we would lie, and to tell her we did hear her name called, so that is what I texted back to her. Five years of college and two degrees and the annouced name is not heard. I didn’t care - she has what’s “real” but my daughter cared very much.</p>
<p>I agree, Soozie, that the punishment seems extreme. There wasn’t a ton of hollering at D’s graduation, but there was some. The air horns are obnoxious, and I would be happy to see them outlawed, but the punishment should go to the person committing the offense. (In our community, if a minor commits a property crime, his parents are NOT held responsible financially, because the courts reason that it wasn’t them who did it. So it seems really backwards to punish a kid for an adult’s offense.)</p>
<p>Our graduation is unticketed, and in the football stadium. Not something that seems to inspire dignity or solemnity (Is that a word?). The people sitting in front of us asked for names of graduates from other families sitting near them, and proceeded to holler for all of them. (Fortunately, my D had already gone - nice being at the front of the alphabet. Crowd was still subdued at that point.) </p>
<p>At our kids’ graduation, they don’t even get the piece of paper till afterwards - they all receive an identical diploma folder/frame thingy, but it is empty. They get the actual piece of paper afterwards, to avoid mistakes.</p>
<p>These kids in this article are still officially graduated, though. They are just lacking the piece of paper. I’m not sure I’ve ever used my diploma, or shown it to anyone. Colleges only want transcripts, so I’d be inclined to do without.</p>
<p>I think this is an issue that could be litigated. 1: There is no proof that the cheerers were related to the students; 2: there is no way that children can be made responsible for the actions of their parents (though parents can be held responsible for the actions of their underage children); 3: if the students completed all the requirements, I believe they are entitled in law to receive their diplomas.</p>
<p>A threat to sue will quickly persuade the school to disgorge those diplomas.</p>
<p>Well, there’s two layers to this: the individual injustice to the student vs. the need to find an effective way to rein things in. We had this same problem years ago in Little League with “problem” spectators. {There he goes again with the Little League} You can’t actually control spectators effectively directly - you can’t even be sure which “participant” they’re there for. But a little peer pressure goes a long way. I feel sorry for these kids but my guess is that when word gets out next year’s ceremony will be a lot better mannered. </p>
<p>In Little League (the short version is) we stopped the game and notified the offending party of the problem. Second offense the game was stopped until the offending party left the field/park/whatever. If they refused to leave we told them the game would be canceled and subject to forfeit. Obviously, it wasn’t the players’ fault, but once you stop everything, and everyone watches the public discussion with the offenders, etc. - it actually worked. We never had to cancel a game.</p>
<p>Well, if I am interpreting the article correctly, the kids did graduate. Their college acceptances or job opportunities are not at stake here. They are high school graduates. All they are missing is the physical diploma – which is just a decorative piece of paper. It’s not an important legal document like a passport or a birth certificate.</p>
<p>My son doesn’t have a physical high school diploma either because he refused to attend his own high school graduation (getting there required a long bus ride, and he gets sick to his stomach on buses, so he said the heck with it). The high school didn’t go to the trouble of sending the diploma to him, and he didn’t go to the trouble of going there and asking for it. But he’s still a high school graduate.</p>
<p>Nevertheless, the policy is really stupid and can only make the school look bad. It could also motivate those of nastier temperaments to cheer for people whom they dislike, which could stir up all kinds of trouble.</p>
<p>I think this is complete BS, the students didn’t even do anything and they were denied their diploma. I mean the students can’t control people in the crowd.</p>
<p>Kluge–Again, though, that would be a good way to sabotage another team (or student). Too much room for abuse–it has an end justifies the means quality that I find uncomfortable.</p>
<p>I don’t think the student should be held accountable for something out of their control. </p>
<p>I do however, think that something should be done to reign in the rude parents and guests who care only about their own kid and shout and air horn over others, commence to rudely talking loud with each other once their kid’s name is done, and who leave the audience as soon as their kid’s name is done (I’m not talking about those who do so to accommodate elderly guests). Air horns were banned at my D’s grad but some parents smuggled them in anyway. I saw quite a number of these rude people at both of my HS D’s graduations.</p>
<p>An easier way to rein in rowdy audiences is to stop the proceedings cold and tell everyone that they will not resume until there is silence. If cheering erupts again, procedures will stop again.</p>
<p>I agree that it is petty and stupid. There are far better ways to handle this kind of situation, and marite’s suggestion is a good one.</p>
<p>I also have the feeling that the people in general who cheer the loudest at graduations are the ones who have first generation graduates. They are so proud to see their family members march. This to me adds to the mean spiritedness of the school in denying those kids those pieces of paper that they worked hard to earn.</p>
<p>Garland - that was why we designed the policy the way we did. The first step shined a spotlight on the misbehaving spectator personally, without making any assumptions regarding which team or player was “responsible” for the spectator. The second step simply deprived all of the spectators of the opportunity to observe the game as long as the unruly fan refused to leave. Believe me - a lot a peer group pressure comes to bear on someone under that circumstance. The final step - forfeiture - would only be taken if there was aclear link between the troublemaker and one team. Other wise the game would just be rescheduled and played out. (We never even had to do that. The first two steps always solved the problem.)</p>
<p>Marite’s got it. Every principal knows how to quiet a crowded auditorium: you stop the proceedings and refuse to continue. Cross arms, purse lips and say, “I’m waiting.” Glare. Don’t utter another word until the crowd silences.
If they resume (and they will) just do it again. By the letter “C” it won’t happen anymore.
That’s what I’d do, if I ran the zoo, said young Gerald McGrew (with apologies to Dr. Seuss for this plagiarism).</p>
<p>Imagine…a thread where we all agree?? LOL…I also wrote that suggestion in the first post about stopping the proceedings until the cheering stops and refusing to continue and reiterate the rule. Do that one or two times and they get the idea. Who the heck wants to prolong the LONG marching and handing out of a lot of diplomas longer than it already is? :D</p>
<p>Probably another rule thought up by the same folks who expelled a kindergartener for handing a teacher a razor blade he picked up on the way to school. I can’t say I’m surprised, though. My goodness, I’m glad WashDadJr is only 10 days away from being out the clutches of his high school.</p>
<p>Oh yes, WashDad, I will also welcome the end of high school years, even though this has been a much better school than the older 2 attended. I am just so TIRED of high school. I hope I can be gracious about paying school taxes (not that I’ll have a choice). I always promised myself I’d care as much about the children of the district after mine were no longer there. Soon, I’ll see if I can live up to that principle.</p>
<p>Sorry, soozievt, indeed you deserved due credit for the great idea on stopping the graduation noise! Common sense…it’s so uncommon these days :)</p>
<p>My initial thoughts were, honestly do these people have nothing better to do to further their school or community or anything? Some people just like to have power and create overly dramatic situations or something. </p>
<p>I understand they want to rein in noise but at the same time it’s not like the student can personally control every single person in the audience. Frankly though it’s sad that you cannot rely on adults to exhibit any self control or consideration but basically that’s the way it is, I’m not sure if these people just haven’t picked up on it by now, but no matter what they do, someone is going to make noise. Because they can, because they want to, but for whatever reason, they will. The majority won’t anyway if it’s frowned upon because they want to stay generally in line with social expectations, but there will always be that person. Always. </p>
<p>There are better ways to go about this anyway. At my school they have staff stationed at various places so it is easy to tell who is making noise and that person is removed. Nothing happens to the student. But honestly people have survived for a long time with graduation ceremonies where someone makes noise, so personally if I was a principal I would probably not be devoting this much energy and attention to the issue, but I don’t know, perhaps their community is feeling extremely ill effects from this.</p>
<p>That’s just foolish. School’s like to find any reason to disappoint students at the very end of high school. Why?</p>
<p>When I graduated, 1 person broke out in tears and nearly got arrested because she was told she passed all her exams the day before. Got dressed up with cap and gown and when she got to the school gym with the rest of us, he senior sponsor told her to get out that she failed a class and she couldn’t graduate. The next day she went and found out that she didn;t fail anything and picked up her diploma. And another person, Couldn’t walk with us but could pick up her diploma the next day. Why??! noo reason. Even after getting their diploma, they missed out on the most important part.</p>