<p>I read through the descriptions in the college catalog and searched the forum, but I can’t tell the difference between Introductory GenChem and Comprehensive GenChem. Is the former only for fulfilling the core requirements and not for potential bio majors or pre-meds? Also, what do the chem/bio online placement tests actually determine? Thanks in advance!</p>
<p>What are you looking at? I haven’t heard about “Comprehensive Gen Chem”. In the regular introductory Gen Chem, there are two variants, which respond to different interests kids have. I think one is more biochemistry focused, and the other more physics focused. Then there is Honors Introductory Gen Chem. Basically, the placement test is probably only used to sort kids between regular Gen Chem and Honors Gen Chem, and maybe to identify a few outliers who could skip Gen Chem altogether, or who should never take a real Gen Chem class.</p>
<p>There is no “Chemistry for Poets” Core sequence. Any of the introductory Gen Chem classes will satisfy the Core Physical Science requirement, but there are also a wide variety of special Core classes that also satisfy the Physical Science requirement – just none that are focused mainly on chemistry.</p>
<p>I think the Comprehensive GenChem started last year as it doesn’t exist on '08 time schedules. From the College Catalog:</p>
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<p>So, including the honors track, it appears as though there are three tracks for GenChem. Aside from the fact that the first track is NOT for chem/biochem majors, who is it for? Thanks!</p>
<p>I was just considering this. I’m interested in placing into Honors Organic Chemistry—should I still take the placement tests, even though my AP score (5) supposedly enables me to take orgo? Is there anyone I should notify about my decision? I’d imagine that starting out with such a challenging course isn’t a popular option, but I’d like to avoid repeating material I learned in high school (I know, there’s supplementary material in the Honor Chem sequence, but still, I want to expand my horizons and test myself). I had an excellent teacher for AP Chem and I’m willing to teach myself any necessary material. Any thoughts/advice?</p>
<p>P.S. Sorry to hijack your thread, but my question seems relevant.</p>
<p>zakuro: Sorry, I was having browser problems, and couldn’t read the current course catalog, and the Chemistry Department site had not been updated. I think everything you need to know is here in the 100s description:</p>
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<p>What I surmise is that this course will meet premed requirements, but is not OK for prospective Chem majors, and they are trying to divert some of the premeds (at least the ones who aren’t really interested in Chemistry) into a course that is less stressful for them, and to keep them from stressing out the future scientists.</p>
<p>apple: You are going to be attending one of the great universities in the world. They know how to teach chemistry. They are not in the business of holding you back out of sheer bureaucratic inertia. On the other hand, they know from experience how to tell what entering students can take without crashing and burning. I don’t know specifically about Chemistry, but as far as I can tell most other departments err on the side of letting students push themselves.</p>
<p>But. The chances that your great AP class really prepared you to go into Honors Orgo are probably pretty slim. You should take the placement tests and discuss with the departmental advisor what you want to do, and what they think you ought to do. And then you should probably follow their advice. Believe it or not, you don’t know more than they do (a) about chemistry, or (b) about teaching chemistry.</p>
<p>@apple- JHS is correct on all counts, but I did want to offer a student’s perspective on this. I had an excellent teacher for 2 years of chemistry in high school (he was working on his PhD in Chem; we didn’t adhere to the AP curriculum, but ventured in to o-chem topics by the end) and I found the old, normal gen chem sequence difficult. While I’m sure you’re well prepared, DO take the placement test, and at least try out whichever class you place in to before requesting alternate placement. Chances are this is NOT going to be honors O-Chem, but that doesn’t mean you aren’t going to eventually take that course, nor that you’ll be labelled a “non-challenger”. Chemistry is one of the most difficult subjects taught at UChicago, and can be a little unforgiving. It’s especially difficult as a time commitment, and taking any chem course is quite a drain during your first quarter in school- best not to take something unrealistic. While I know you want to challenge yourself and are decently well prepared, expecting to challenge yourself that much- by starting out in honors o-chem right off the bat- might be a little unrealistic. Many students who have achieved an AP 5 find honors gen chem a challenge, and no one (in the chem department or otherwise) is going to think you’re a slacker for electing to take that course- so you shouldn’t either.</p>
<p>@gracello and JHS</p>
<p>I appreciate both your opinions, and I didn’t mean to sound conceited. I’ve been researching the two o-chem sequences, and as I understand it, the honors version is simply the regular version condensed into two quarters. If this is true, I would probably take regular o-chem. I realize that o-chem is daunting for any student, but I’m willing to put in the extra time and effort. I’m interested in pursuing graduate studies in the sciences and I want to keep my options open (i.e. make more room for advanced electives in later years while fulfilling the basic requirements for Ph.D.-M.D. programs). Thanks for your thoughts.</p>
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<li><p>What are you talking about? There are 3 quarters of Honors O-Chem.</p></li>
<li><p>If you are really interested in pursuing a PhD track in science (or MD/PhD), my guess is that what you ought to be planning on is taking Honors Gen Chem and then Honors O-Chem. The honors chem classes are both small, tough, and elite – a great way to have great peers and real contact with faculty, to build your knowledge base systematically from the ground up the way the Chicago faculty thinks you should, and to shine. Graduate programs aren’t going to reward you for jumping into the deep end of the pool and thrashing around, even if you finally do figure out how to swim. They would prefer to see you disciplined and thoroughly, reliably in command of the basic material a non-grad student should know, and with solid recommendations from faculty they admire. The way to be that person is to start at the beginning, not the middle. (Not the very beginning, just the same beginning where the other AP 5s, chemistry research in high school, crazy dedicated people start.)</p></li>
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<p>An update on the chem tracks…
What I found during registration was that the chem department is loathe to drop you from 111 to 101 if you placed into 111 (which, apparently, is based on math not chem knowledge). Our advisers told us this the first day, and one of my friends who has only taken honors chem in high school talked to the chem department and was told he could not drop down. As a result, if you look at timeschedules, there are very, very few enrolled in Intro Gen Chem. </p>
<p>While I suppose you can add/drop into 101, most people didn’t and it was surprising that the chem department was so adamant - I was rather expecting these new tracks to work like other classes (physics) where your placement does not matter as much and you can take a lower level if you aren’t majoring. </p>
<p>So, for those of you who haven’t had significant exposure to chemistry, don’t expect to be automatically allowed into 101 - you will probably have to go around your placement - and it might be a smart choice, given the surprising number of chem majors in 111.</p>