<p>Horse, I’m so sorry to hear (from your other recent posts) that you didn’t seem to have the joy of a close, caring relationship with your parents. It sounds like you’ve done alright for yourself, but the angry messages you’ve sprayed all over the Parents Forum today seem to indicate some unresolved feelings – whether over something you’ve experienced or perhaps over a friend’s breakdown under actual pressure.</p>
<p>The job of parents is, in fact, to parent our children. They are dependent on us for nourishment, nurture, and guidance. To guide them toward destructive behavior would be just as wrong as feeding them spoiled meat. And to leave them to flounder when they’ve tried their best to resolve a conflict but they simply don’t yet have the personal tools to handle it… that would be like not feeding them at all. Sure, they might “toughen up” and survive, in the process discovering reserves of strength they didn’t know they had – but at what price? And that would be abdicating our responsibilities as parents. Something which has been all too prevalent in the past few generations.</p>
<p>I’m glad this forum exists, because there’s so much good advice posted here by folks who’ve already been there, done that. If someone posts a suggestion that seems a bit extreme… that’s what discernment is for. We can all separate the wheat from the chaff for ourselves.</p>
<p>geek_mom, all I am trying to say here is that kids fight. Me and my brother used to and still do fight all the time and we are 20 and 23 now. We fight, hes even broken my nose, but ya know what thats just what boys do. We still love each other, and it just seems the problem is always made worse when a parent gets involved. My mother always had tried to stop us from fighting, and she would sometime even cry, but it would drive me and my brother crazy, because it wasn’t that big of a deal. My brother broke my nose and 5 minutes later in the ER we were laughing and playing around again. No hard feelings. We fight and its resolved 2 minutes after the fight. But my mother would be mad and cry for hours sometimes. It was dumb and a waste of her time. Kids fight, especially brothers. That will never change.</p>
<p>One of four growing up, 2 girls and 2 boys. Have 2 Ds now. My dad never raised a hand to us, never allowed physical fights in our house. Our Ds have never even pushed each other. A lot of sibling rivalry still goes on between my siblings - who’s got a bigger house, makes more money, better kids.</p>
<p>Its quite easy to day that over a forum to justify your argument, but the vast worldwide cultural norm of siblings fighting is pretty much enough to backup my argument. All you need to do is search on the topic. This site agrees with what I am saying. The rivalries are very common and parents should stay out unless another child is in drastic harm. [Sibling</a> Rivalry](<a href=“Parents (for Parents) - Nemours KidsHealth”>Sibling Rivalry (for Parents) - Nemours KidsHealth)</p>
<p>Um… Horseplay is one thing, and certainly that’s common in families. However, if a bone gets broken in a fight between siblings, I’d call that “drastic harm.”</p>
<p>What you’ve described may have been “normal” for you and may occur in some other families, but it doesn’t sound like something for the rest of us to emulate. And certainly it wouldn’t fly in any of the families I know. Big families, little ones, all boys or not… physical fighting definitely crosses the line.</p>
<p>I dont really consider a broken nose to drastic. I didn’t bother me to much. </p>
<p>It doesn’t occur is some or a few families it happens in almost all. But its nice I guess to live in your perfect little world where you can exclude yourself from the norm. </p>
<p>I mean what kid of world do we live in when boys reach college and have never even been in a fight. We get a world of ■■■■■’s. Pretty much what we have now.</p>
<p>I fought my brother all the time when we were kids (typically on Sundays, when my mom would be out of the house doing chores), but we never really permanently hurt each other. (OK, except when he threw that Altoids box at my face; the dent in my face has only just recently healed.) My brother and I have a great relationship now that we have separate rooms, but when we younger and cramped into a 12x12 room for 10 years, things got messy.</p>
<p>Your assessment of the world as a bunch of spoiled brats may be (at least somewhat) true–ask any educator who’s seen the last couple generations–but it’s not because boys were never allowed to fight. It’s because parents give their children too much without asking for anything in return. </p>
<p>I don’t think brothers who don’t physically fight at the age of 18 and 20 are socially maladjusted: they are rational adults who work out their feelings in a normal way. Play-fighting is for children, not for adults.</p>
<p>Our three boys are very close in age. Right now the older two who are home from college are helping with the youngest’s eagle project. </p>
<p>Do they fight? Oh yes. Break stuff sometimes and act stupid? OH YES. But on balance, they really have a great relationship. They spent a LOT of time doing stuff together over the years - camping with scouts and all of our family vacations. They have similar talents and abilities and interests. They have so many shared experiences that they speak in a shorthand. With a short time left for the break, and knocking wood as I type, I’d say the break has gone well.</p>
<p>It helps that I grew up with three brothers, so the general energy level when the three of them get together isn’t so foreign to me.</p>
<p>(note: they drive me crazy in MANY OTHER WAYS - no perfect kids here… they do get along though. Yay.)</p>
<p>"I mean what kid of world do we live in when boys reach college and have never even been in a fight. "</p>
<p>A great world. I understand horseplay and goofing off (my husband and my 16 yo son play-wrestle all the time), but actual fighting such that a nose would be broken? Or having either of them get into a physical altercation with someone else? Ugh.</p>
<p>Dr. Horse, you were talking in another thread about living in NYC with a family that makes $22K/ year. No disrespect intended, but I kind of imagine that a neighborhood that rough is indeed where young men need to get in fights to prove their masculinity, or where siblings would be so out of control and undisciplined that they’d break one another’s bones in fighting (not by accidental horseplay, but by real fighting). I expect my family to live according to better standards than that.</p>
<p>Your just an elitist then. Which is fine, but theres a reason suburbanites get taken advantage of so much. They don’t know how to defend or protect themselves.</p>
<p>My 18 year old college freshman S has never been in a fight. He has never been physically threatened, nor has he ever had to even avoid a fight. It has just never happened. We live in a typical lower middle-class suburb and don’t consider ourselves elitist. My S attends a suburban university that has little crime. A person never has to fight unless cornered by a someone who means him harm. Our family is fortunate to live in an area where physical assault is a rare, newsworthy event that is punishable by law.</p>
<p>I’m the youngest child who was left behind and I have no relationship at all with my siblings. They all grew up together and had a life before me and I had a life at home with my parents without them. I wouldn’t suggest that you stay out of it. I would suggest that you do whatever you can to encourage the older siblings (particularly the sister) to maintain a bond with the younger. It’s very easy for them to move on without each other.</p>
<p>Update- Visit is now complete. D1 is on her way back. I give the visit a C. I wish it had been better for all of us but I admit I had some unrealistic expectations. They had some bad moments but they also had some good. I think both could have done a better job of getting along. I think they both would say it was the other one’s fault. I think they both feel I favor the other one. I feel I did a good job of not taking sides.</p>
<p>“Your just an elitist then. Which is fine, but theres a reason suburbanites get taken advantage of so much. They don’t know how to defend or protect themselves.”</p>
<p>If it’s “elitist” not to frequent restaurants and public places where the clientele get into physical altercations, well, then call me elitist. What kind of trashy people go out to dinner and wind up in physical fights with other diners? Whatever for? Sorry your neighborhood was rough, Dr. Horse, but I think you’d want to aspire to better than that, not deem it “elite.”</p>
<p>But then what do I know, since according to your other postings, women shouldn’t be allowed to vote, LOL.</p>