Children/God /Religion/Prayer

Parent Cafe
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<p>I am an unbeliever, raised Methodist/Catholic, who attends the local Unitarian church. My H is an unbeliever raised fundamentalist Christian who has such a violently phobic reaction to “church” that he can’t even bear the Unitarians. So I go by myself, and take our kids. I say that “I don’t believe in God, but I do believe in church.” I find that spending a couple of hours a week in quiet spiritual reflection is very helpful and restorative for me. I find the community aspects rewarding; otherwise, almost everybody I meet socially is in my own, or my husband’s, career area. Church membership makes it easy to donate time to social action/volunteer activities (at the homeless shelter, Habitat for Humanity, hospital, etc.) on a limited basis, even when I’m busy with kids and job. Both my kids have appreciated the church youth groups, especially my quirky son who was miserably bullied in school, but welcomed for his individuality at church.</p>

<p>I’ve been very involved in the religious education program at my church (in fact, joined for that reason). In the 7th/8th grades we do a program called “Neighboring Faiths,” where we set up field trips to various faith groups in our community, interviews with Catholics, Jews, Sikhs, Muslims, Baptists, etc., talk about what we as Unitarians share with these traditions, and where we differ. Because most Unitarians aren’t born in the church a lot of the kids have parents and relatives in another faith tradition. There’s also a terrific sex ed program for the 9th graders, Our Whole Lives, which both our kids loved.</p>

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<p>jingle- that was a nice post. I liked your line I do not believe in God but I believe in church. While it does not work for me I can clearly see how it would work for others.</p>

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<p>We are also UUs (close to atheist on the agnostic-atheist spectrum) and originally joined because we wanted a religious education program for our kids. (They eventually attended a Quaker school because we were interested in a more progressive education that our public schools offered, so they were exposed to that experience as well.) When they were in RE I believe that curriculum was called “The Church Across the Street”. We all appreciated that the UUs celebrated the holidays of many religions (any excuse for a party) and there were many members who had interfaith marriages. From our belief statement–</p>

<p>We articulate and promote liberal religion by keeping open minds to the religious questions people have struggled with in all times and places. </p>

<p>We provide a spiritual home for people who seek to pursue truth for themselves.</p>

<p>We believe that personal experience, conscience, and reason should be the final authorities in religion. As UUs, we seek understanding from many sources and believe that religious authority lies not in one book, one person, or one institution; it is within each of us.</p>

<p>Working in fellowship we are inspired and empowered to live out our values and principles, both in the congregation and beyond its walls. </p>

<p>Our mission: To be a spiritual community for celebrating religious freedom, religious tolerance, and reason.</p>

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This is very much in the Jewish tradition of thought. Jews do not accept things as “God’s will.” After all, our forefathers and prophets, specifically Abraham and Moses, argued with God!</p>

<p>I have also never been able to deal with the idea of a God that requires belief. I cannot believe in a God who is that insecure.</p>

<p>I think Rabbi Marc Gellman said it best: There are many ways up the mountain.</p>

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<p>OP…only you have the answer. Beliefs are man-made. Period. You have the power to decide what is right and wrong for YOU and you alone. Of course this is MY belief…but it works for me.</p>

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<p>Well, I will go out on a limb and say that I do think my religious beliefs are right, and that others are wrong. Of course, I think the same thing about my political beliefs, my views on what sports teams are the best, and my idea of whether rap is “music” or not. But as with my views on all of these things, I certainly recognize that other people have the right to believe (or not believe) whatever they want, and I’m happy to have a civil discussion about any of them. If the context is one in which it’s appropriate, I might try to persuade you that my view is the right one, and you might try to persuade me. I’m reading an interesting book right now called “God Is Not One” by a religious studies professor named Steven Prothero, and his premise is that all religions are not the same, and that there are differences among them that make a difference in the real world. He doesn’t (at least so far) make any claims about any of them being “better” in any general sense, but he does identify problems with all of them.</p>

<p>As for my kids, I’ve raised them in the same faith I follow–just as I’ve done with politics, sports, and aesthetics. They’re smart and have inquiring minds–they may continue to adhere to views like mine, and they may not. That’s up to them.</p>

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<p>I moderately liked Prothero’s book, but to me, he misses the obvious: there are many religions, and they aren’t the same, because there are many gods! (You can actually tell he is uncomfortable with this idea, despite the book’s title, because his chapter on Hinduism is poorly researched, and really, quite embarrassing for someone who claims to be a religious scholar.) I always thought it both a personal and cultural affront for someone to tell me that their religion worshipped the same god as mine - how would they know? It is patronizing and (in a global context) imperialistic.</p>

<p>My experience of the world tells me that the idea that there is a single all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-compassionate deity is a non-starter. Maybe your world tells you differently.</p>

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I find it interesting that you think Prothero is patronizing.</p>

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<p>The one factor that keeps me believing is some sort of higher power is that I honestly believe that I, you, we - have souls.</p>

<p>I’m not a materialist, I think things can exist outside of material such as consciousness. </p>

<p>So I think the most important function religion/spirituality/philosophy provides us with is an opportunity to better our souls and enrich our spirits. </p>

<p>For along time I struggled with balancing my religious beliefs with my brain, which operates scientifically. I LIKE knowing how stuff works, I’m analytic and always want to understand cause and effect. For awhile this made me skeptical (unbeliever) in anything that couldn’t be quantified, tested and repeated. </p>

<p>As a Catholic, many of my beliefs were counter-intuitive to what I considered scientific facts. I thought that the only way a god could exist is if he could be scientifically proven and measured. After searching for “evidence” I learned that really isn’t possible and I felt disheartened.</p>

<p>Eventually I started filling my curiousity with philosophy and a broad range of spiritual beliefs. I read alot about Buddism, Hinduism and Native American beliefs, and then discovered some modern philosophies about life, balancing science with spirituality and the mind-body relationship.</p>

<p>After awhile my mind changed. I stopped being concerned about believing in a certain image of god, and just focused on using the tools given to all of us to find wonder in our world. When you ask, what is God? Then picture an old man with a white beard sitting on a throne in the clouds that judges our sex lives and alcohol intake, well…it’s easy to say, No Way, that can’t be real. </p>

<p>However, if you take out that image (which was man-made) and replace it with an order, something that balances our world - then yes, I do believe in a God.</p>

<p>I belief God created Life.</p>

<p>Life - Singular. </p>

<p>When we think of life, we think of billions of people, animals, vegetation, ect. We think of life as plural, as many. I’m beginning to think of life as a single thing. At some point, Life started and it was whole, then developed into what it is now (billions of people, animals, vegetation). At some point in our vast history, all humans share a single mother. Science (Evolution) refers to it as the Original Replicator, however what it was is still a mystery.</p>

<p>I still go to Catholic Church (my earlier post explains way) but my recent spiritual quest has been very rewarding. Organized religion is to restricted for me to be a dedicated believer/follower. It’s like they hand you a box and say, “Ok, inside this box is everything you believe in, everything you need to know. Don’t worry about what’s outside this box, we’ve taken care of that for you.” </p>

<p>Before I would look outside and think God was looking down at me. Now I go outside and think I’m looking up at God. I appreciate the world more. I no longer think, “Am I pleasing God?”, but rather, “Am I appreciating God’s gift?”</p>

<p>The idea of god is to complex for us to really comprehend. For now, I’m just happy believing that I have a soul, I have something that I can look to internally and improve. </p>

<p>I didn’t enjoy being an non-believer for the same reasons I didn’t like following a defined religion - it took all the questions away. Sure, we will always be able to discover new things in science, but I don’t like the materialist approach, it too prevents questions. It does the same thing religion does, it provides you a box and says the only things that can exist are within this box.</p>

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<p>“find it interesting that you think Prothero is patronizing.”</p>

<p>Oh, no, I don’t find Prothero patronizing. I find folks who preach that all religions worship the same deity patronizing (or worse). Prothero’s book, in contrast, is not patronizing (though the section on Hindu polytheism is very weak); it just doesn’t live up to its title.</p>

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<p>My kids just about lived in/for the church while growing up. Husband and I are both liberal Protestant pastors, so the girls have seen the best and worst about churches. They still remember being parked in the hallways of the local hospital many a time while mom or dad was with a church member, and getting popsicles from the nurses (last pastor called out had to take the kids…). For awhile my oldest daughter’s favorite bed time story was the crucifixion accounts - REALLY morbid, but for some reason she became fascinated by it when she was sitting in on a confirmation class. Youngest kid went to her first funeral at 8 days old 'cause I was nursing. Many dinner table discussions have been about faith. Their faith and ours still enters many conversations.</p>

<p>The youngest has always had her opinions about faith. She wasn’t baptized until she was two for various reasons. At her baptism she cracked up the entire congregation by yelling “I no wanna be baptized” - her sister had somehow gotten her to confuse baptism with vaccinations and she was anticipating a shot. She now attends a Catholic school and goes to mass twice a week, giving the priest whom she loves dearly the evil eye every time communion is served. On Ash Wednesday, she went running up to the altar because THAT she was allowed to receive. She does not agree with much of the Catholic teaching but loves the mass.</p>

<p>Older daughter works as a camp counselor at a church camp every summer but will not attend church services the rest of the year - she remembers too well some of the abuse her dad and I have experienced over the years. That makes me sad.</p>

<p>As far as explaining the Trinity: one scholar says it well: “one WHAT and three WHO’s”.
As far as salvation: I firmly believe that we are saved by Christ, but that Christ can save anyone he wants to save. If it’s up to us believing, or saying the “sinner’s prayer”, then salvation depends on an act of humanity and not an act of God. Like Jesus said, many who think they are saved are not, and many who do not think they are saved are.</p>

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<p>When the rapture comes there are going to be a lot of surprized people walking around both in heaven and on earth.</p>

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<p>One of the best sermons I ever heard was something along the lines of “what would you do if you got to Heaven and found all your enemies (and “bad people”) there?” </p>

<p>God’s ways are mysterious. Like KKmama, I believe that all are saved by Christ, but Christ saves who he wants. It’s not for me to decide who is worthy or “deserves” salvation; that’s God’s job, and He’s not looking for a replacement.</p>