@cobrat Great posts.
Oh yeah by hs S1 and S2 will be commuting themselves to school.
Plane about to leave country and have to sign off but just a quick tx for your posts.
Penmanship was one of my worst classes in Catholic elementary school…though my being the youngest had little to do with it.
Always had some issues with handwriting and it seems to run in some branches of my family…especially with some academics and a few engineers in my extended family.
I have to laugh that I actually dissed a K-12 school in NYC. I must have been in a fine form that day. Yes, I think UNIS is a great school. The exposure my kid got at that school was pretty amazing. They had many families from UN. A lot of D1’s classmates have gone on to some great schools/careers. She has reconnected with some of those classmates now she is back in NYC.
Jonri - I don’t know where your kid went to school in NYC. But hey, if I got upset every time someone dissed my kid’s college or private K-12 I would have an ulcer.
OP - if your kid were to go to a “new school,” there is going to be less of track record of students’ performance, and top tier colleges maybe more cautious about admitting them. Many high schools submit “school profile,” which includes course offerings, average test scores, and where students have been admitted to. Adcoms use that information to help them gauge how competitive a school is.
This is one of the issues we ran into when we had our kids in a private school in Atlanta. We have one daughter born in December, and one born at the end of August. Neither has been held back, and younger D is almost always the youngest in her class. She started high school right after she turned 14.
Older D with the December birthday is not the youngest for her grade-she’s right in the middle. Your kid would be, too, unless the whole “don’t start them until they hit puberty” mindset has infiltrated NYC public schools, as well.
When they were in private school when they were elementary aged, the culture of holding kids back to improve their testing and grade scores was routine. It was assumed your kid would take at least 14 years to get through their school. We were, frankly, appalled. It was one of the reasons we left. Younger D was in kindergarten with 8 year old kids who were cognitively typical for their age (not held back due to learning differences).
I know you worry about “slots” being taken up by the prestigious private schools, but I think it may be healthier to look at your kid not as a potential slot, but as an interesting human being with some unique abilities-if he’s supposed to go to an Ivy, he’ll be attractive to the Ivy-it’s not like they’re going to throw his application in the circular file just because he’s not at the super school.
That seems like ludicrous behavior on the part of the people doing the admissions, doesn’t it? Let’s give them some credit for being able to find the kids they want at their school.
@MotherOfDragons rest assured I don’t think of my kids as potential slots! Jeeze.
Look, if Success Academy were in small city in the the middle of America and our other options were either the local public or a private 25 miles away, then there would be three schools to compare. Boom. Done.
NYC has an eye-popping variety of really excellent schools with myriad educational philosophies and opportunities (sports, clubs) many of them free (!). There are a dozen schools S2 might be a good fit for and they all have complex admissions processes.
I think Success Academy is great so far but we’ve only been there 2 years.
My take from this thread is that I need to keep doing research and map out when S2 would have to test/apply for various options (middle school, high school).
My heart is firmly with Success. But I want to try to be objective and do what’s best for S2. And the school scene here is so intense, you almost can’t overthink it.
What are your sons’ academic interests respectively? Are they interested in everything or strongly leaning towards one area such as the performing/musical arts, STEM, humanities/social sciences, etc?
What types of educational environments do they prefer/do their best in? Are they independent and proactive about seeking out help/resources themselves or do they need some handholding? Do they prefer educational environments which are highly collaborative, highly competitive(even sometimes of the cutthroat sink or swim variety), or doesn’t matter?
“He is legacy at HYP.”
What does this have to do with anything? Is that the end goal here?
These boys are very young both under age 10, right? Academic interests can be nurtured but really at this age they should be building a base for all areas of academics - from subject to study habits, etc.
Personally, I think the “worry” here should be in keeping them focussed on school and the “here and now” and NOT stress them with middle, high school and graduation plans! I know it’s in the back of your mind, but do NOT waste the time you have now with too many worries about what’s ahead! I don’t care where you live.
Seriously, if you are looking ahead to college when they are still in primary school - I mean, REALLY thinking and worrying about college options - that is not right to me.
“Is it true that even if S2 graduated in the top 3% (or even was among the top few kids or was even the top kid) of his class at Success Academy high school and performed well on (the competitive par of) AP tests (6? 10?) and had the requisite SAT or ACT scores that “the spots would be gone” before his application would be considered, so great is the power of Stuy/BkTech/Bronx Sci/Hunter + top privates and Catholic schools in NYC?”
The spots would be gone where? HYP? So? Why would that EVER be an explicit goal to shoot for? For s kid who is what, 8 or so? You really need to calm down on your expectations. You have a very catastrophic mentality and it’s not helping you. No decision or path in life is permanent. The choices aren’t HYP vs homeless bum.
What is the end goal? Look, it’s impossible to map out every possible route for your S2 when he’s still in first or second grade. It’s also unhealthy for you, the kids, the family to have an end goal of HYP, or any top 20 on either research university or LAC lists. They are far too young for that type of planning - you just don’t know how they will be in 3 years, 5 years, 10 years. Life happens. Even to the best-planned life.
It is possible to overthink it and that’s what, I suspect, others are trying to tell you. It is very possible this charter school works for your S2 now but maybe it won’t work for whatever reason in two years. No one knows that now. So what happens? You’ll find a better fit for S2. This won’t negate the choice for the current charter school.
It’s okay to have a general goals (I want my child to grow up to be a happy and self-sufficient adult) but once you start putting more and more specific goals, you’re cutting off that child’s choices. Follow the child. See where he leads you. Yes, provide him with the tools he needs but don’t decide now where and how he acquires that knowledge and those tools.
SlackerMomMD,
Could you, please, be more specific and let us know the details of your experience that supports your statement : "NYC schools are just another level of crazy, especially at the high school level. "
As I have mentioned, both of my grandkids are at 2 different test-in High Schools in NYC. Both enjoy immensely their respective HS’s and great opportunities there. However, your post made me feel that they may not be sharing the negative sides that you mentioned in your post. I would appreciate if you share with us what kind of “crazy” experiences your kids had there, or maybe your kids went to different test-in schools and that would explain the difference. One of mine is at Stuyvesant and another is at LaGuardia. Since you mentioned “but I don’t live in NYC”, maybe your negative experiences were in a past when you used to live there?
You seems to be familiar with the logistics in getting to schools. Again, the experience of my grandkids could be different, but as far as I know, parents take turns taking kids until they are approximately 10 y o and after that they start taking public transportation by themselves usually going in a groups of couple or more.
Aspie - there is no decision you can make that can’t be revisited, altered, changed down the road. None. And decisions aren’t between options that are black and white. There are always shades of gray, pros and cons. There are few “perfect” decisions.
What if S2 is in a really good, but not the very best, school system? What harm will come?
Read this closely. There is NO assigned high school. Every single eighth grader has to apply to high school. The kids get a 500-page high school directory detailing each and every high school.
As for the specialized high schools?
C’mon, you don’t think this is new level of crazy?
Don’t forget NYC is the largest school system in the US with over a million students.
I’m not saying, by the way, that students don’t like their high school experience. Not at all. Your grandchildren may (likely) be thriving at their respective high schools. But getting there takes luck as well as accomplishment. I don’t think it’s a straight path from K through 12 as it is in other places in the US
I’ve watched young relatives grow up in NYC, going to different types of schools (private/public/homeschool). My take? Any parent who is able to navigate their child through the overall education system (private/public/homeschool/etc.) in NYC is amazing.
OP’s anxieties aren’t limited solely to college options, but are also reflective of anxieties of many NYC parents…especially upper/upper-middle class ones on whether the myriad public/charter school options will prepare their students well for college-level work.
Some of those anxieties are valid as there have been issues with students from NYC public schools where their passing or even high grades/statewide Regents exam scores deceived students and families into believing they were far better prepared for college level work than they actually were.
That is until the students find themselves placed by their respective colleges into remedial classes they could have avoided had they been placed in a more academically rigorous school at an earlier stage of the educational process. And this not only often expands the time and expense to graduation, but can be psychologically devastating to students who viewed themselves as good students or above-average academic achievers up to that point:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/24/education/24winerip.html
There’s also the factor that if one happens to be living in the neighborhood with school(s) with poor performance stats among its students, one does need to be quite proactive* to plan ahead to avoid attending such schools…especially if one cannot afford to send their kids to a private school and scholarships aren’t forthcoming.
This is made more urgent by concerns I’ve heard from parents of current NYC K-8/12 students that if one isn’t placed in a special G & T school(not class at a neighborhood public school) by 3rd or 4th grade, their chances of being on the academic track to being prepared for the NYC Specialized HS exams by 8th grade are nil as coverage of basic algebra/geometry isn’t covered on the regular NYC K-8 curriculum until the second semester of 8th grade due to the effects of watering down the K-8 curriculum from the time I attended in the '80s…which is too late as the NYC Specialized exams are administered in the first semester of 8th grade in the fall.
- Especially in the case of Hunter College High School as they only accept applicants for entry into 7th grade. If one misses that entry window, HCHS will no longer be an option should a child/family feel they'd want to try applying for entry into the 9th or 10th grade. Consequently, this also requires earlier planning as the child in question must be "pre-qualified" to take the HCHS exam by results on 5th grade or earlier City-Wide exams placing the prospective applicant somewhere ~97 percentile** or better and the family and school must get word of it in time to register for that exam before the HCHS exam registration deadline has passed.
** My City-wide exam results did qualify me to take the HCHS exam back when I was in 6th grade. Unfortunately, word of that didn’t get back to my parents or inexperienced Catholic elementary school*** principal until the registration deadline had passed.
*** That Catholic school never had a student who scored high enough to qualify for the HCHS exam. I was the first.
But you turned out ok Cobrat, yes? 
I do understand what you are saying.
I have a nephew at Hunter. And possibly another one coming up. As someone not from NYC, it was mouth dropping to hear the planning that my brother and his wife had to do to play the NYC game, but while they knew it was coming after 5th grade, they spent their time and energy K-5 nurturing the kids in all ways - but very typical, normal, unstressed, plenty of time for down time and fun activities, ways for the kids. The one at Hunter now? He attended one PS K-5, tested and chose a middle school, went there for 6th - not the best fit (and the bus ride was dreaded DAILY), tested for Hunter and it’s a good fit. So Hunter was not in the picture from the get go, but all is well.
I’m not sure I’d have had the same positive outcomes…including getting admitted to Stuy or BxScience if I was going through the NYC K-8 system after the “reforms” which turned out to have improved test scores of students in K-8 by watering down the curriculum/exams that they are far less well prepared at the same age compared with students during my time in K-8 back in the '80s and early '90s.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/11/education/11scores.html?pagewanted=all
While this report is from 2010, several friends who are currently teaching in public K-8 schools and/or have kids attending them observed this is still an issue to the present day.
As for no longer being tethered to a neighborhood high school as was the case when I was in junior high/high school, that is a wash.
While a student is no longer stuck with a crappy neighborhood high school like the one in my old NYC neighborhood or worse, the current application process is such that if one’s luck isn’t good…one could end up being stuck with a crappy HS AND possibly be forced to commute to the other side of the city(Can be up to a 2+ hour commute each way on subway/bus) to boot. Don’t really see one being much better than the other.
Your brother’s family likely had the social capital and network to gain information to navigate the HCHS application process much more effectively than families from lower SES neighborhoods and/or those of immigrants like my own parents.
This disparity in informational access…especially with the digital divide being an issue and moreso…in the days before the existence of the internet mean some families have much more of an advantage in gaining the information necessary to plan out the application process to HCHS than others…especially those from lower SES/immigrant neighborhoods.
One improvement compared with my day is how I’ve heard from a Stuy alum with a kid in HCHS that they no longer automatically reserve up to half the incoming 7th grade seats for HC Elementary School students as they did back when I was growing up. A policy which granted a substantial advantage to Manhattan residents* and especially those living in/near the Upper-East Side.
- HC Elementary was closed to students living in the other 4 boroughs of NYC.
^^ Interesting.
^^
Another interesting fun fact regarding HCHS and Stuy. Before they went co-ed, HCHS was all-female and Stuy was all-male and students from each would attend games/social events* hosted by the other school. One could say they were “sister schools” in a sense.
- HCHS became co-ed in 1974, Stuy became co-ed in 1969. Incidentally, before '69....BxScience was considered the more popular and most prestigious/selective NYC Specialized HS partially because unlike HCHS or Stuy...it became co-ed much earlier in 1946.
** Athletic events, ballroom dance parties, proms, etc.