BC lost to Penn State but I get your point.,
“Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t the op’s son want to study business? So why are any Ivies except Penn and Cornell being mentioned?”
I assume it is because an economics major for Harvard or Yale can often compete with a Penn business major for IB or similar jobs even though they do not have a business degree.
@moooop, wanting to enter the business world doesn’t require studying business as an undergrad.
So much discussion is on quality of school and academics, I get that. But when you are seriously considering professional sports, the concern is equally the quality of football coaching and staff. How about the personal trainers, is there a solid staff and benefits behind the program? I have an NCAA Champion going pro and the consideration was finding a top/solid well-regarded school with the best team and coaching, and overall fit. Was recruited by the big name mentioned on here a lot but the program in this sport was not in a good place, so declined. Also turned down Ivies that were willing to find us grants. People on the outside may have seen that as a crazy move, but there is no question it was the right one. I strongly believe a player needs to be with the strongest players/team possible to get better. Also know that it is a lot more than 20 hours a week no matter how you slice it. Some professors/schools really don’t support their athletes. Miss a quiz, get a zero, thank you very much. Hopefully your son has connected with other athletes to get the real scoop on support, athletically and academically. The students don’t bs, they tell it like it is. Did he shadow with the teams on recruiting trips at some of these? (I tried to catch up on 6 pages of posts, sorry if I repeated things already said.)
It is easy to say go HYP, but consideration is completely different for an athlete. I will say it can be the most magical four years when you go to the right school. If pro is seriously in play, pick the best program with the best coach and football support. The academics and connections will come from any of the choices you mentioned. If acadmics are your first and utmost priority, that is one path. If a sport with solid academics behind that are the priority, that is another path. You can achieve both. imo. Good luck, enjoy the ride!
“He can always hit the Ivies for grad school.”
“He can only play top level college football once in his life, but can go to HYP later, for grad school.”
I have to nitpick the language here. No one, even a multi-Ivy recruit, should look forward to having Harvard, Wharton, etc. as graduate school options. That may not be what either poster meant, but the clarification is important. As a college graduate, this student will have the opportunity to compete with other outstanding students for a slot. His desirability as a HS senior won’t play any role in that competition. Most H/Y undergrads do not have a shot at a top-5 grad program in their field – that’s true for med school, law school, B-school, etc. If it is important to this student to get the H/Y/Wharton experience, and it is being offered now, he should grab it now.
That said, if we were talking about a music conservatory program vs. HY, and the student only had a slim shot of making it as an opera singer after the conservatory program, I’d still respect the student’s choice to go after that dream. I’d want my kid to pick the more academic option, but I’d back them up either way.
This is an issue that continues to be mostly misunderstood. The “business” degrees at Penn, and more recently at Cornell, at not very different from most schools that offer the BA or BS in Economics. On the other hand, one can see noticeable differences with the “business degrees” that are often the default (and lite by excellence) majors for males at many middling college or universities.
FYI, check how Wharton describes its UG “business” program: http://www.wharton.upenn.edu/undergrad/academic-excellence/economics-and-beyond.cfm … they have been known to describe Wharton as “excellence in the liberal arts!”
I have to say the the one thing that I find a bit amusing about this thread is the preconceived views that people bring to it. Football fans have a hard time imagining that you would not choose BC for even the smallest chance at making the NFL. In contrast, the academic nerds can’t imagine why anyone would pass on Harvard, Yale or Penn for the opportunity to put in 40 hours / week for free plus the chance to get their skull cracked open.
In the end, all we can do is try to provide information to support them in making an informed decision that is right for them. We will never know which option would ultimately result in a better life. Odds are good that he will be successful either way, but they are very different paths.
“Absolutely, academics should be top consideration”
-Academics depend mostly on the student and NOT the college. There are simply fields where the name of UG is very important. There are also kids who absolutely wnat to be at Ivy, and nothing else, for whatever reasons. However, for most part, if a kid detemined that “I will do fine everywhere” - out of my D. mouth, then there are NO limitations for such a student, NONE as we have discovered. Many (most?) in D’s Medical School class happen to be from Ivy / Elite schools (clearly accepted not because of the name of their schools but because of type of students many Ivy / Elite accept) . They had no advantage whatsoever academically over students who came from State publics, while many from pubics had a clear advantage in social skill being exposed to a greater variety of kids in UG, not just intense academically oriented crowd at Ivy. I said many, not all, there are always kids who recognize the shortcoming of their surroundings and will take special care of what is missing.
In case of a plan for any Grad. School (aside from the free ones), I would give even more considerations to a free UG option, unless there are personal preferences otherwise. However, since offer is athletically based, there should be a serious evaluation of the time limitaions.
Yes, PT, I know u can get into biz with any major, thats why I said “study” rather than “get into.”.
Sorry re Penn state …BC lost real close games to Florida state and Penn State, whereas Penn got blown out by Fordham and Villanova. This might be perfectly fine if football is just a hobby and not a passion.
Even if the NFL isn’t an option, I can see why BC might be preferred…if he doesn’t play pro ball, then at least he would have played big-time college ball. And if he’s good enough for the NFL, he can make it there from any college , so the whole NFL future here is a bit of a red herring.
That, folks, is an amazing opportunity.
Personally, I would do whatever it took to scrape together $20K to send my child to Harvard, Yale, or Penn. For me, BC would be off the table – even if the NFL was a real possibility. Pro scouts look at all college teams and they know the talent when they see it. There is no significant advantage to attending BC, and all the Ivies are worth the extra $20 per year.
By the way, my understanding is that Harvard has gotten very serious about their football in recent years.
I think that this college choice is not different from any other and the question should be where would your son fit the best. The vibe of each of the ivys and BC are very different - so is the size, type of campus, etc. You need to go back to the basics - where would he be most happy for the next 4 years with people who he will enjoy spending this time with and fit in well with. The only difference is that he needs to think of which football team (coaches, type of players, type of schedule, play time, etc.) fits what he wants also. (no different from the kid who loves food taking into account which college has the best dining hall for him.)
They are all good schools and you have said he would succeed academically at any of them so that is not part of the decision. You can afford the cost of any of them so that is also not a part of the decision.
I am an academic nerd and I don’t follow most sports except for rare college football. And of course this is an extremely personal decision. But frankly, I think that he should go to the college where he could maximize his chances of playing professional football, which would be BC. He can only try this path once and he can only take this path when he is young so the opportunity should be taken and he should go as far as he can with this. And he will also get a great education.
If the professional FB doesn’t completely pan out, then he can either get a job in business or go to Bschool at Wharton, H or Y. It will always be there in the future and he can zig zag a path to eventually get there if he wants to or need to, but if he does not choose BC, he is severely cutting off his options for playing professional FB. (a H/Y FB game is just a touch above high school play so it seemed this fall at the 40 yard line.)
When applying for a business job or applying for Bschool, playing high level FB will completely elevate his application because most of these people know what the level of commitment and dedication this takes, and they know that he will transfer his commitment and dedication to the next thing, work or Bschool. When I am evaluating medical fellowship applicants, playing high level sports and being in the armed forces carries great weight with me, because I know the level of commitment and dedication that these applicants have.
There are fewer professional FB players than are people in some business job that he may want. Thus, the business job can be fallen back on. The door is opened for him to potentially have a professional FB career. I say step through that door and choose BC.
(As a disclaimer, my D attends Y, and Y is great and all, but after seeing the inside, she would say that she would have a great time at many other universities as well. Also, prestige can be overrated.)
I became curious about how many NFL players came from Harvard vs. BC. According to my research, 30 players have played in the NFL from Harvard since the 1920’s. Approximately 180 players have played in the NFL for BC since the 1920’s.
Those are some tiny numbers, folks.
It is highly unlikely that this is how the OP son feels about the situation. As a top recruit for the Ivy League he would almost certainly would have had likely letters offers well before Oct 1st, which means he would have had a great deal of time to consider attending an Ivy league school. Instead of accepting an Ivy league offer he pursued BC. BC Carroll School of Management is ranked in the top 10 nationally which suggest that the core course offerings there would be similar to Wharton.
^^^
I think you’ve that backwards. Don’t you think that the OP son committed to BC well before the Ivy schools offered or suggested the likelihood of admission.
Not hard to figure it out at http://bostoncollege.247sports.com/Season/2015-Football/Commits
It is clear that BC is a choice for football. The choice for academics is different. Read the words of the OP.
That’s a non sequitor. I don’t know how similar the core course offerings are, but the fact that it’s ranked in the top 10 doesn’t mean this at all.
Wharton doesn’t grant a degree in business administration. You get a BS in economics.
"That, folks, is an amazing opportunity.
Personally, I would do whatever it took to scrape together $20K to send my child to Harvard, Yale, or Penn. "
-Not for everybody. First of all the “amazing opportunity” for what? The education and other experiences and oppotunities for amamzing internships and connections are absolutley everywhere, it is up to a kid NOT to pass them by. Opportunities for a top caliber student at non-Ivy/Elite place are boundless, with time managements skills (required!!) they hit gold at these places who show their love well beyond symply Merit offers and placements in upper division classes.
Ther only reason to spend $20k / year vs $0 is if a kid absolutley wants to be at the place that costs $20k / year and the kid has no desire to be somewhere else. if it is not the case, I jsut do not see “amazing opportunity” where you compete for everything with the bunch of intense academically pushing kids vs where all kind of opportunities are simply presented to you on a golden platter, just grab if you wish, but you are our first choice to offer them . Then another consideration is that at most (all?) of the Elite palces and many more privates, many classes are not actually taught by profs who are assigned to these classes and who are world renown, he is not the one who gives lecture. So what difference does it make if his name is attached to the class? At some other schools you may find that the official policy is that ALL lectures are actually taught by profs (as it was the case at my D’s UG, who had one class that was taught by 3 profs lecturing their subspecialty at every single lecture of the class). When D. compared the situation with her HS friends at different colleges, it was not the case at all.
To the OP, it might help his son to decide if tries to imagine himself 4 years from now in either situation, best & worst cases. Think of 4 scenarios:
How does he feel if he is
- graduating from BC debt-free and a) have a shot at the NFL or b) got injured in college, no longer playing FB
- graduating from Penn with $80k(?) in debt and c) has his dream business job lined up d) unsure where he’s going to work
In #1, does he see himself regretting passing up on Wharton?
In #2, does he see himself regretting passing up on the possibility of NFL?
What if the student gets injured playing football? Not merely a broken arm, or a dislocated shoulder… but perhaps a broken hip (see Bo Jackson)… a football career ending injury. What is the plan for that situation? Can the family still afford BC?
The current concern about concussions is also germane. College football is highly risky.
There is no good reason to avoid thinking about this. It happens all the time.