Post #98 requires a bit more explanation because it is totally unclear why aftger graduating from graduating from BC debt-free kd would not have his dream business job lined up ? What will prevent this from happenning when graduating at BC vs other or in this fact absolutely ANY UG. We are talking about the same student whose plan is to excell at any place, correct? So what palce has to do with his success?
MiamiDAP he could have his dream job lined up after any college, actually. The exercise is just for the kid to imagine it, and then realize it himself. So whichever one he chooses he won’t have any second thoughts.
Edit: I guess what I should have posted is - imagine the best and the worst possible outcome of either choice and how you feel about it.
Where’s Isaiah Kacyvenski when you need him? He graduated from Harvard, played for the Seahawks, then got his MBA from Harvard. If your son has the athletic capacity to play in the NFL, he will get there regardless of the college. Look at Stephen Neal - he was a wrestler at CSU-Bakersfield with a long football career.
The advice we got from a D1 baseball coach was to go where you will fit in best as a student - that is what is necessary to be happy at the college regardless of the sport. If he is a Harvard capable student, go to Harvard.
Another advantage of Ivy athletics is that they only take kids capable of a full academic load. BCS schools have broad admissions flexibility and ways of keeping their marginal academic recruits eligible with light class loads, private tutors, homework help, athlete-only classes, summer school … the list goes on. A FBS D1 football player’s degree will always be slightly suspect in a way that an Ivy degree will not be.
I agree with the first point whole-heartedly. However I don’t think the second statement naturally follows. A H capable student could very well be happier at another school. The Ivies are not the be all/end all, engineering being a natural example for many of those schools.
@Magnetron. I wouldn’t be so broad with that statement:
Stanford, Duke, Northwestern would strongly disagree with that bogus claim…because if the OP’s son had the “chance” to go to Stanford…this entire thread would be MOOT. He could have the best of both worlds!
http://espn.go.com/blog/pac12/post/_/id/84037/approaching-signing-day-lance-anderson-on-evolution-of-stanford-recruiting
That has become true --and especially so in more recent history-- but the schools listed above hardly represent the entire realm of the BCS. In fact, the comment of Magnetron is not invalidated by the couple of examples of the schools that were able to combine highly selective academics and superior athletics. The differences are especially tangible in sports such as basketball. What was Stanford’s reply again to the banners of the UConn supporters? We graduate! And they were absolutely correct. There are two distinct worlds in NCAA sports and few schools are represented in both.
I happen to agree with the issue being moot if the OP’s son had had better responses and better luck from a program such as Stanford, NU, or Duke. But, according to the presentation here, it appears that the choices are Boston College vs Penn or Harvard. For the OP’s son, it is an issue of “Carpe Diem!” It remains that Harvard is not for everyone, but the OP has stated that it is extremely appealing to his son.
The OP said his son also had offers from Duke, UVa, Vanderbilt and Virginia Tech.
It seems to have come down to Boston College and big time football vs. Harvard, Yale and Penn.
Last piece of data I saw the Duke basketball team had sub-1000 SAT M+CR. Son’s friend ended up at Vandy with sub-1500 SAT for all 3 sections. In HS, I was offered $1000 to take the SAT for a basketball recruit. I was offered $300 to take a distance learning course for a Big-10 football player (wouldn’t do it, but a friend did). Years ago, my college roommate got $500 to take a Chem final at another college for a football player. My father worked in the athletics dept of a D1 school and had loads of first-hand information. Dartmouth, on the other hand, suspended their athletes caught cheating. I could not find much data particular to BC, but, based on trolling the recruiting profiles of their commits, Novaranger’s son would not necessarily fit in academically with most of the team.
I agree that Stanford is not a part of this. They are the first choice for high achieving athletes and have been for a while. We know a valedictorian/wrestler there.
Bottom line: if Novaranger’s son is at BC it is still a great, great choice, but not the advice I would have given him.
and
I completely agree. And it is possible to seek out these “rare” schools early in the process (not later)…for future applicants and parents to be aware of…
Congratulations to you and your son. You are truly blessed to have these incredible opportunities. But the fact you have them in such quantity tells you it is not a fluke. Your son has something(s) special.
My advice is to ignore the conventional Ivy-biased wisdom on CC and have your son think hard about what he really wants.
I feel like we won the college game last year because we had many incredible opportunities but were able to tune out external noise and find the best fit for our daughter. Doing what is right for YOU is how you win the college game.
I have my own strong opinions about the right choice here and the best schools for being a student-athlete. But these are just my opinions. It is your son’s Life. And only he can really assign the factor weightings that will guide him to the right choice FOR HIM.
I am heartened that you said he feels he could be happy at any of the 4 schools in his final list. If that is the case then there is no wrong decision. You pick one and then he just makes it into the best decision of his life. If he is flexible and adaptable then he will be fine.
I was at a party this weekend and talked to a Mom that said the pressure is pretty unbearable for football recruits right now as the final musical chairs is being played. Her son was getting calls daily even though he has committed to a school. So I know it is hard for you to be objective as the pressure mounts.
You are correct that despite the 20 hour NCAA limit on weekly scheduled team time most kids are committing more time voluntarily on their own. And it puts a real load on the student, even if they are in the top of the entering class. I would be leery about going to any college as an athlete where I was in that bottom 25% or even 50% of the class. Any lower and you will struggle and not enjoy the opportunity. Contrary to conventional wisdom, many athletes are very strong students, skilled at time management and disciplined to study even when tired.
There are really only four universities that do both academics and sports at the highest level: Stanford, Notre Dame, Duke & Northwestern. The Ivies are not strong enough in sports to make this list and other big name schools you see on TV don’t have the academics. There are others that are close, including some fine D3 schools, but these are the four premier schools for Student Athletes. Hopefully this makes you feel better about the tradeoffs you face.
I don’t think you have a wrong decision here. You are blessed with great choices and know the pros and cons of each and where you would have to focus and invest to offset any cons. So just have him choose one and work to make it be best for himself.
Best of luck!!!
What does that even mean? Are you really familiar with the “biased wisdom on CC” or might you happen to have missed the many nuances and divergent opinions?
Can you define what the conventional wisdom is … on these shores? Allow me to suggest a hint: search this site for best fit! And that elusive best fit is a far departure from the Ivy-Uber-Alles mantra.
“If the professional FB doesn’t completely pan out, then he can either get a job in business or go to Bschool at Wharton, H or Y. It will always be there in the future”
I still don’t get this. You don’t know that he can go to B-school at such a university. Most Harvard graduates can’t, never mind most BC graduates. It “will always be there” only in the sense that those universities will continue to operate. His invitation to attend Harvard, Yale, and Wharton will NOT always be there. If he turns down the invitation and wants to go attend later, he’ll have to earn a new invitation all over again. The odds are that he won’t get one.
Hanna, most folks on this site don’t realize that your B+ student from whatever college (meaning- whatever- Harvard, Stanford, BC, doesn’t matter) with a 680 GMAT score is NOT getting into Wharton or Harvard business school.
But still they persist- it doesn’t matter where you go to college, you can always go wherever you want later on (like grad schools in the US sit around waiting in the hopes that someone will apply!)
And I love the comment “if the professional FB doesn’t completely pan out”. Does that mean that if it partially pans out the kid can join the NFL? Are there adjunct players at the NFL?
@2plus2ition - You said “There are really only four universities that do both academics and sports at the highest level: Stanford, Notre Dame, Duke & Northwestern. The Ivies are not strong enough in sports to make this list and other big name schools you see on TV don’t have the academics.”
That’s only true if your definition of sports is limited to football and men’s basketball, If you look beyond these two sports, I think you’ll discover that the athletic programs at some of the Ivies are very competitive (and in some cases better) than those of the schools you list - and they are doing this without handing out a single athletic scholarship.
Of course this is not relevant to the OP, but you did not constrain your statement to just football.
FYI - Harvard had the only undefeated team in Division I football this year. Granted they are FCS, but they’ve been winning far more games than BC has in the last few years 
@Magnetron, most people aren’t aware of this (even those who follow big-time college sports recruiting religiously), but Stanford and Northwestern have higher minimum standards for athletes in the 2 revenue sports than Duke, Vandy, (or anywhere else in FBS). Their athletes’ test scores are still far below the average students’ at those schools, but, while not huge, there is a discernable difference between the athletes’ average test scores at those 2 schools and the athletes’ average at Duke/Vandy/etc.
While some ivies do quite well in several sports, I think saying the athletic programs are “better” than Stanford/Notre Dame/Duke is a bit of an exaggeration . For example, the Sears Directors Cup award is based on rankings across a large number of sports, instead of just football and men’s basketball. The rankings 2014 final rankings for some of the discussed colleges are below:
- Stanford -- 1482
- Notre Dame -- 1185
- Duke -- 1051 ...
- Princeton -- 511 (highest ivy)
- University of Pennsylvania -- 325
Of course, there is a wide range of experiences possible under the aegis of “professional football” or even “NFL”. The broader category includes the professional league in Canada and the U.S. arena football league. Every NFL team has a practice squad whose members can make $90,000 or more in a full season, and from which a handful of players emerge each year to full team membership. And, even for players who make the full-season roster of an NFL team, the average career is barely more than three years long. For non-superstars who are frugal, that may provide enough after-tax cash to pay for graduate school or to provide seed capital for a business, but it’s not going to set many people up for life. So, yeah, there ARE adjunct players in the NFL, or something like it.
(Three people from my cohort at a college not unlike Harvard had meaningful NFL careers. (a) One, a hugely successful college athlete, was drafted in a late round, then injured and cut during training camp. He got hired to the practice squad of his home-town pro team, and he played his way onto the full roster at a different position than his college one, ultimately getting a starting position for a decade and a Super Bowl ring. Then he went into finance, where he had worked in the off-season since college. (b) One was a much-recruited player coming out of high school, a very successful college athlete, and another late-round draft pick. He played in the NFL for a long time, mostly as a starter, and he also has had a successful post-football career in finance. (c) One couldn’t even dream of playing in the NFL, but went to law school and wound up working as a high-level executive with several NFL teams.
I have a friend who went to a different non-unlike-Harvard college who played in the NFL for two seasons before getting cut and going to law school. When I was in law school, there was a guy there who was a current member of an NFL team – he didn’t take classes fall semester. He played all or part of four seasons before turning to the rest of his life.)
^^ like. @Data10. I know I know…you are dating yourself my friend 
…it use to be called Sears Directors’ Cup…but, a few years ago changed its name to Learfield Sports Directors’ Cup…and Stanford has won this top athletic cup 20 years in a row…
…and not much different this year after the first half of the academic year
http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/nacda/sports/directorscup/auto_pdf/2014-15/misc_non_event/1415Div1Dec18.pdf
http://www.nacda.com/sports/directorscup/spec-rel/121814aaa.html
@Hanna In support of your point, I pulled this from a old thread.
Someone compiled data showing how many students who enrolled in the top 6 MBA programs went to various colleges as undergraduates for a recent year’s class. Below is the data from that thread for Harvard, Penn, Yale and Boston College.
As you can see, Harvard, Penn and Yale undergraduates are admitted to the top MBA programs in large numbers, while very few Boston College undergraduates were admitted to these programs.
The theory that if you don’t get into a top undergraduate school, then you can always go there for graduate school is certainly possible, but unlikely.
"TOTAL ESTIMATED MBA Students (Harvard+Wharton+Stanford+Columbia+Chicago Booth+Dartmouth Tuck)
Harvard undergraduates: 192
Penn undergraduates: 183
Yale undergraduates: 113
…
Boston College undergraduates: 5
“He played all or part of four seasons before turning to the rest of his life.”
One of my votes for coolest person alive goes to Associate Justice Alan Page of the Minnesota Supreme Court. He graduated from Notre Dame, was a Hall of Fame defensive lineman for the Vikings, and went to the U of MN law school (which, for the non-lawyers, is a darn good law school) WHILE he was a Pro Bowler in the NFL, and became the first African-American ever to serve on the Minnesota Supreme Court, where he was reelected three times by the largest margin in the state’s history. AND he’s an extremely nice guy and kind to every law student I know who’s interacted with him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Page
So there’s precedent for playing pro football AND going to graduate school and becoming a hugely successful professional, at least if you are the coolest person alive. A tall order, admittedly.