If you want a tattoo which serves no purpose other than adornment/enhancement, then it seems that you already knew the answer before you posted the question!
After all, I don’t personally care for tattoos, but I don’t perceive that a tattoo wearer is saying that “plain” skin isn’t acceptable without enhancement. It’s just how they choose to enhance it. I may not care for that particular aesthetic but I understand the desire for adornment. And it seems you do too.
It feels very knee-jerk to me to assume that makeup = conforming to society’s notion of beauty. We aren’t talking movie star levels of makeup - we were talking about basic everyday makeup.
To some extent, isn’t skin care also for appearance too? I mean, it doesn’t impact my health if I don’t moisturize my face. But somehow moisturizing my face falls into the “good” side but adding blush or lipstick tilts to the “bad” side. Why is that? Is there a distinction between brushing my teeth, which promotes tooth health, and using mouthwash which is “cosmetic’”?
Green button, I think the reason I had the reaction to your posts is that you characterized it as pressure/expectation (“Do you think women feel all this societal/peer/personal pressure to meet a certain expectation of beauty because we value women’s youth the most?”) and assumed everyone using makeup is doing so out of fear - they’d rather not, but what would other people think.
If I look around me at middle class America, most people aren’t engaging in beauty beyond hygiene standards. (Which is fine) I am in the midst of a cross cultural beauty study for a major personal client in which we did ethnographies in the US, Europe, Russia. Brazil India and Asia and then quantitative work to identify segments and need states. There simply are. In every culture, women who find makeup and body enhancement and fashion enjoyable for their own selves. HOW they do it varies culturally (tight clothing in Brazil, bright colored saris in India, elegant fashion in France) and there are cultural influences (bath routine in Japan, desire for paler skin vs darker skin differs by culture). There is a need state of wanting to measure up but there is also a need state of wanting personal sanctuary and wanting to feel good independent of what others think. This is a super super high level summary but that’s the gist.
All you say is true for some women, but it’s not good to disregard the beauty expectations placed on women in our society. I think young women are taught (through media, peers, and even parents) that how they look plays a huge part in how they are valued. And yes, men care about looks too, but as someone pointed out in another thread, girls get comments on their looks from almost as soon as they are born - that’s the default way to compliment a woman - her looks. The obsession with appearance is just on a completely different scale for women than it is for men.
There will always be the argument of “oh, some women like it” (it being the focus on appearance), and that is true, and all the power to them. But many (most?) women are unhappy with their looks. Just look at surveys and studies on the subject. I think it’s unhealthy. And I DON’T think it’s intrinsic. I think it has a lot to do with societal pressure. Is it true in other societies? Sure. But it doesn’t make it healthy or OK (the old everybody-does-it argument). And that’s why I don’t think that pressure should be disregarded - if nothing else, it should be discussed and acknowledged, before anything can change.
I am actually thinking of getting a tattoo - we’ll see if I have the nerve to go through with it.
For me, skin care is important in the management of eczema.
We’ve left hair out of the discussion - I color my hair or I’d be completely gray. I also use products that enhance it’s appearance (on a good day).
People were up in arms yesterday that actual, unretouched photos of Beyonce were leaked - I believe from an advertising campaign for a foundation (I may be wrong). I assume she was wearing the product being marketed - well, her skin does not appear to be enhanced or flawless. Blemishes are clearly visible. Once photoshopped - perfection. There are some who might see that ad and think - Beyonce is gorgeous, she uses this product, well, I’m going to buy it too. I find that objectionable. I understand that’s marketing - but I don’t care for it.
I don’t know who even said it, but I think the purposeful use of the words “paint and spackle” instead of makeup is meant to ooze judgement and negative implications. So I disagree that there has been no critical bent in this thread of people who wear make up.
Actually, several people have already mentioned that they color their hair to cover gray.
I began going gray at the age of 19. I began coloring my hair because I didn’t want to look 20 years older than my actual age. Rather than trying to appear “perfect” I just wanted to look like me as the twenty something that I actually was. Years later I still color it because for one, I wouldn’t care for how it would look for many many months as it grew out, and two, I just see myself as a brunette. This is still all about pleasing myself rather than worrying about what other people think.
Apparently a Beyonce fan site posted the photos, and it was swarms of Beyonce’s fans (the “Beyhive”) who got all bent out of shape about it.
Women and men have been painting their faces since the beginning of time. Sometimes it is to make us more beautiful and sometimes to make us frightening. Maybe we just want to make ourselves more noticeable. A sorority girl and a goth girl are using makeup in different ways. Some males use makeup in a deliberately transgressive way. When one woman puts on makeup and looks in the mirror she sees Joan Crawford, or Elizabeth Taylor. Someone else looks at her and sees “paint and spackle.” Whose perception is more important? It will depend on her circumstances. If she needs to fit herself into a particular business or social environment, she may need to adapt herself to the makeup norms of that environment, unless she has high enough value and status within that environment she can do whatever the **** she chooses without negative repercussions.
In some historical periods, upper class women were expected to wear makeup. In other periods they were expected to avoid wearing makeup. Only actresses and courtesans painted. However, in those periods some respectable women did paint. They just did it in such a way that, with any luck, no one noticed. So in those periods we have women surreptitiously wearing the no-makeup look while slut shaming the women who wear noticeable paint.
For anyone on Twitter (or just click the link below) Stacy London asks people to post “fresh face Friday” photos on Twitter on Fridays - most of them appear to be sans makeup faces - #freshfacefriday
If most women are unhappy with their looks, it is because they are paying attention to negative messages about their appearance from other women. We do this to ourselves. We do it to each other. Is it possible we could just stop doing it? Or is it too big a part of human nature?
When we create distance between ourselves and other women over the issue of makeup vs no makeup or any other life choice, we don’t do ourselves any favors. imho.
I agree with you, alh. We DO do it to ourselves. And I think the point is not to alienate anyone. Heck, my best friend wears make up, and I have enormous respect for her as a human being. I obviously don’t want to take away her choices. But is it possible to have a discussion about the pressures women face without those who like/don’t mind those pressures feeling like it’s an attack? Is it possible to contend that make-up shouldn’t be expected of women or that it’s a pressure that has no intrinsic value to it, without those who like to wear it feeling condemned? I am not sure.
How about: “You look beautiful, I love your look. That is not my look but it is absolutely your look.”
If it isn’t your look, don’t adopt it unless you need to do so for professional or social advancement, and believe the trade-offs you’re making are worth the accommodations to perceived cultural norms.
adding: I have to disagree with your statement makeup is expected. Lots of women choose not to wear makeup. That isn’t unusual at all. It is your perception that it is expected. It is possible in your professional and social environment that it is expected. It is not in mine.
“If it isn’t your look, don’t adopt it unless you need to do so for professional or social advancement, and believe the trade-offs you’re making are worth the accommodations to perceived cultural norms.” <-- That’s my issue right there. I don’t think it’s good that it’s the cultural norm. And I think it’s worth discussing and questioning the cultural norms and pressures.
I think it depends on where you live - I live in NYC and work in the corporate world.
I think the expectations for the amount of makeup one wears have gone DOWN drastically in the corporate world compared to 25 years ago, where you didn’t walk out of the house without foundation, concealer, mascara, two colors of eye shadow and blush. Think “Dress for Success” 80’s style. And there were far more “constraints” on personal style - plain heels, very specific classic pieces of jewelry, pantyhose, silk blouses with bow ties and the like.
I find it’s FAR more acceptable in today’s corporate world to show personal style through one’s dress, makeup, accessories, etc. as well as to wear little or no makeup. The “full face” of the 80’s is long gone. Look at things like the Nars Orgasm - one stick that you can swipe on as blush, lipstick and / or eyeshadow as you see fit. That’s what I carry on business trips versus a full bag of makeup.
I think some of you are thinking about a very dated past when you think about makeup.
“I don’t know who even said it, but I think the purposeful use of the words “paint and spackle” instead of makeup is meant to ooze judgement and negative implications. So I disagree that there has been no critical bent in this thread of people who wear make up.”
Paint and spackle makes me think of a Tammy Faye Bakker, over-the-top look.
Several years back a couple of young people I know finished their PhDs and were on the job market looking for professorial positions. They had an extreme look: facial piercings, tattoos, etc. Their professors were extremely concerned about how this would impact their job prospects and very gently suggested (over and over and over) that the look be toned down for interviews and that after being hired, or maybe after being tenured, they could put all that hardware back in place.
These young people just flat out refused to adopt a more mainstream look. Their look was a political statement and was important to their sense of identity. They didn’t want to present as something they weren’t. They felt strongly their look was an honest look. They did not want to work somewhere that would discriminate against them for this look. Their professors gave up.
The students got jobs and have been continuously employed. Perhaps they didn’t have the choice of jobs they would have otherwise, but they got jobs where they didn’t have to accommodate their look to someone else’s standard of appropriateness. Mostly everyone my age thought they were almost out-of-their minds foolish but I thought they were absolutely wonderful. It was a huge risk, but worth it to them.
Okay, now I don’t understand the problem. You aren’t wearing makeup in a corporate environment, but are concerned about the possibility other women feel pressured to do so?
I know women who do this look. It is the perfect look for their social and professional worlds. A minimal makeup look would be out of place. I absolutely love the big hair. I don’t have to have big hair to admire that look.
