From the Northeast and just came back from a visit to Claremont schools in CA with Jr D who liked the vibe of the smaller campus, the local area and of course the weather. She also liked the consortium approach of the 5 schools there. We want her to spread her wings but selfishly hate to see her go to school so far away when there are so many other great LAC schools in this region. Any feedback regarding experience in comparing Claremont schools to Northeast LACs?
One of my kids turned down other schools from all over the country, including Northeastern LACs, to attend one of the Claremonts. She has no regrets – loved trying out the West Coast for a few years.
The Claremonts compare very favorably (in my opinion). Pomona is a solid alternative to any coed LAC in the northeast. The same is true for Scripps as a women’s college, or for Pitzer as an alternative college. Harvey Mudd, as a STEM-focused LAC, has no real northeastern competition (maybe Olin?); the same is true for Claremont McKenna as a social science-focused LAC. As a LAC consortium, the Claremonts are closer and (in my opinion) even stronger than the 5-College Consortium in Massachusetts or the Tri-Co in Philadelphia.
Some rural northeastern LACs, like Williams or Middlebury, would offer better access to natural environments. Some urban northeastern LACs, like Wellesley or Haverford, would offer better access to the Big City. The Claremonts are in the Greater LA area, but they are in a relatively distant and less interesting part of the metro area, separated from the cool parts by bad traffic and mediocre public transportation. Claremont is an attractive college town, but it’s not very large, and it may be difficult to explore other parts of LA unless you have a car. The weather is warm, but the local air quality, while greatly improved over historical conditions, is at best adequate.
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The northeast has a disproportionate number of top LACs. Unfortunately, it also has a disproportionate number of top high school seniors – and it seems that they all want to stay in the northeast for college.
So the competition for spots in top northeastern LACs is particularly brutal if you are from a place like Boston or Long lsland or New Jersey or Bethesda. The northeastern schools are flooded by applications from those places.
But there is a way for a northeastern student to turn geography into an advantage, and your daughter may have figured it out. Apply to LACs like Pomona, Whitman, Grinnell, or Davidson – not just Amherst, Colby, Vassar, or Colgate. If you are from, for example, New Jersey, this makes you totally unremarkable at Swarthmore, but intriguing at Carleton.
I was also deciding between many of the Northeastern LACs, ultimately choosing a Claremont College myself.
The consortium dynamic is a unique and defining feature of the experience. You get access to over 2500 courses (all under one synchronized registration process and academic calendar), 7 dining halls, events, opportunities and organizations across all of the colleges, and a joint employment recruitment platform- all within walking distance, since the colleges are stacked one on top of the other.
There are some other LACs within consortia as well. The only one which seems to match the Claremont Colleges for ease of access, level of cooperation, and sense of intercollegiate-identity is Barnard with Columbia University. Distance is the primary factor- some of those LACs can be as far away as 15 miles from their cooperating colleges, and while a shuttle is available, it doesn’t compare to the convenience of just walking a street across to another school. Another aspect of the Claremont Colleges is that they’re alike yet unique at the same time. All 5 undergraduate schools are highly ranked LACs, but their philosophies to undergraduate education differ, so there’s a diversity of perspective and thought alongside unique emphases justifying interest in cross-registration. For example, a Mudd chemist interested in geology (not offered at Mudd) could take Intro to Geochem at Pomona, while a Pomona chemist interested in chemical engineering (not offered at Pomona) could take Intro to Engineering at Mudd. Yet the fundamental LAC experience- a full attention to undergrads, small courses rarely over 30 students, highly accessible professors- remains the same no matter where you go. Advanced students can even take graduate level courses at Claremont Graduate U and Keck Science (also within walking distance), which have a similar student emphasizing approach.
The social life feels especially vibrant. It doesn’t feel like you’re at a tiny LAC with under 1600 students, but rather a mid-sized university with 7000 or so students- most who live on campus. From the first week students arrive on-campus, their orientation activities are scheduled with events at the other colleges (not mandatory, but virtually everyone attends). Later on in the semester, one of the dinners is turned into a 5 Campus “Turf Dinner” for students to connect with clubs. Most organizations, like the ballroom dance company, the student paper, the orchestra, theater, a cappella groups, the student-run hedge fund, most club sports, and many others are represented by students from all the colleges. There also seems to be an endless stream of speakers, lectures, debates, food-based events, movie screenings, music performances, parties, and whatnot happening at the colleges. The number and quality of employers who recruit on-campus from the Claremont Colleges is strong as well, though admittedly I don’t have a comparative point with other LACs.
To sum it up: the phrase “best of both worlds” may feel like a marketing gimmick, but it genuinely feels that way to me. I picked my school for being every bit as good as any New England LAC on an institution to institution comparison, but offering a more well-balanced life and richer array of opportunities/people with which to interact. The location was a major factor as well- more about that in the next comment.
On the location, as far as natural settings go, the Claremont Colleges are situated in one of the most dynamic regions in the world. We’re on the base of a mountain range and within close distance to skiing resorts, the desert, beaches, national parks, and islands, and every student at Pomona is required to do an outdoors orientation adventure. This was an important factor for me, and the outdoors club of the CCs, On the Loose, is well-maintained and organized.
I didn’t have a car, and it was pretty easy for me to explore LA on a regular basis. This is speaking from Pomona specifically- my school organized numerous subsidized trips (with transportation included) to famous destinations in the area since it has its own coach bus. On the base of Pomona’s campus, you can take a train to Downtown Los Angeles in an hour, and the ticket gives you an all-day pass for LA’s transportation system. Downtown LA has quite a lot to offer by its own. You can connect to a rail system for free to get to Hollywood, Santa Monica, USC/Expo Park, Pasadena, and Universal Studios easily. I will admit that timing is a challenge and a car expedites things considerably, but planning it out makes it smoother, options are there, and I’ve spend several Saturdays in LA without a car. Many students have their own cars and there is a car-rental program on campus, which helps.
Claremont (the city) is one of the nicest college towns among the LACs I’ve visited (I’ve been to Wellesley, Swarthmore, Amherst, Haverford, Williamstown, Lexington, and Poughkeepsie). Bordering the CCs is the Claremont Village, a densely packed group of over 150 businesses- including at least 5 ice cream/froyo places, 6 cafes, a farmer’s market, 2 art museums and a movie theater. There are two other core areas of Claremont- the north part with a Trader Joe’s, and the south part with more restaurants, banks, grocery stores, and businesses (most famous of all- In N Out). All are within walking distance in a leafy, safe town filled with historic homes and streets named after colleges. The Claremont Colleges are within 10 miles to four major malls- Ontario Mills, Victoria Gardens, The Shoppes at Chino Hills, and Montclair Plaza. The annual LA County Fair happens in adjacent Pomona (the city), and a day is set aside for free admissions to CC students. Definitely not the most exciting or college student-friendly place, but above what several Northeastern LACs have to offer in their towns or surrounding areas, if we’re comparing.
Re: admissions- I’m not sure if the geographic background helps much. According to Bethesda Magazine, which compiles data for area students at 7 high schools in Maryland (all of which are on the top end for public schools), the acceptance rate for Pomona was 6% for the Class of 2021 with 49 apps and 2% for the Class of 2020 with 36 apps. Claremont McKenna was even harsher- not a single student was admitted out of a combined 31 apps. By comparison, the Northeastern LACs saw higher acceptance rates- for 2021, 13% at Amherst, 12% at Swarthmore, 13% at Williams.
There are other consortia beyond Claremonts and Barnard/Columbia (Barnard is an undergraduate college of Columbia so I’m not sure that technically that counts.)
- Quaker Consortium: Swarthmore, UPenn, Haverford, Bryn Mawr. -- Haverford and Bryn Mawr's relationship is so tight that they are practically one campus. Located one mile apart, they coordinate schedules and share facilities. Haverford students go to BMC for geology and theater, while BMC goes to haverford for studio arts and a nature trail, that sort of thing. Free busing among three campuses (Swarthmore, Haverford and BMC). Free trains to UPenn.
- Five College Consortium -- Hampshire, Amherst, Smith, Mt. Holyoke, UMass Amherst--free busing around the five colleges. They are very different in terms of temperament and size. I've known several people over the years who have taken classes at all five schools and/or who have found research projects at a consortium campus or have taken part in arts activities at fellow campuses, etc. It's quite successful.
- A Boston-based consortium with Simmons, Wentworth and several other schools. Simmons is a hidden gem in my estimation if you're looking for a school with solid academics, great merit aid, a great location, and individualized attention.
Other reciprocity agreements (there are probably more but these are what I know)
Welleseley with MIT cross reg
Wells with Cornell (cross reg)
Mills with Berkeley and several other schools
Agnes Scott with Emory
12 college exchange program in the Northeast
Connecticut College students can cross reg at the Coat Guard Academy across the street, with Trinity, and with Wesleyan
Dartmouth has a 2+1+1+1 program with several New England Schools including Wheaton and Connecticut College
I’m sure that i’ll think of more later!
Another point of similarity between the Claremonts and the top northeastern LACs is that they are really hard to get into. This is especially true for Pomona (9% acceptance rate, as per College Navigator), CMC (also 9%) and HMC (13%). For comparison: Amherst (14%), Swarthmore (13%), Williams (18%).
My guess (and it’s nothing more than that) is that Pomona and CMC no longer need to make any special efforts to recruit students from affluent northeastern suburbs (just as the Ivies and top northeastern LACs no longer need to make any special efforts to recruit students from the Bay Area or Greater LA). You might still qualify as geographic diversity if you come from a more remote part of the northeast, like maybe a small town near the Adirondacks or coastal Maine. My guess is that northeastern applicants would still get a geographic boost at the less selective Claremonts, or at other western LACs like Occidental or Whitman.
At Oxy, for example, one geographic breakdown (not sure how old it is) shows the following:
266 freshman from California
7 freshmen from New Jersey
https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/occidental-college/student-life/diversity/chart-geographic-diversity.html
All else being equal, Oxy would probably rather admit an 8th student from NJ than the 267th student from CA.
@RookieDad, what does your daughter intend to study in college, and what are her interests? That might be a factor in choosing a NE LAC versus a Claremont. There are lots of threads on College Confidential about the nuances of the NE schools versus the Claremonts.
My daughter visited many NE colleges in addition to Pomona and Scripps. She ultimately chose Pomona ED. I know the feeling of your child being far away from home.
Having the opportunity to enroll in classes through the consortium is amazing. For instance, she can take Computer Science classes from both Pomona and Harvey Mudd. Economics and Poli Sci from both Pomona and Claremont.
The area is gorgeous. There are ample opportunities for hiking in the nearby hills.
Last week, the high in Vermont was about 16 degrees. The same day it was 85 in Claremont.
In the end, the weather, all else being even, is hard to dispute. Plus, sunny days tend to foster sunnier attitudes.
Best of luck with your daughter’s college search and journey.
There are some minor differences. As someone said upstream, the Claremonts are almost like a 7,000 student university; they can eat anywhere, they share the same library; from a drone they would look less like colleges than like individual quadrangles on one campus. One of the identifying features of an eastern LAC is the solitude that descends on campus once class lets out and people hunker down to study. You can hear a pin drop from Swarthmore to Middletown and from Amherst to Lewiston after 9PM.
Another thing to consider is post-graduation life. A friend of mine’s NYC kid who graduated from a Claremont was not able to leverage any of his connections finding a job east of the Mississippi (he’s now back in L.A.)
Pomona has admission for women esp in the single digits. It’s not easier to get into than Colby or many other LACs in the NE, in fact its harder.
That coupled with a #1 Forbes rating not too long ago, make it a very competitive college. The other 4Cs may not be as difficult to get into.
Yes, weather, close-knit school, access to LA (I didn’t say easy access), all the attributes of a top LAC make it super attractive, but yes it is super competitive to get in.
The 5 Colleges are of similar quality and have the advantage of a university in the mix. This increases the number of courses available. But they aren’t as near each other as the Claremonts.
The Quaker Consortium has three prestigious LACs and UPenn – awesome. But aside from Haverford/Bryn Mawr, it takes some work to take classes at the other schools.
I think if you want a consortium experience out west, the Claremonts are the way to go. And there are other quality LACs out west, like Reed, Whitman, CC and Oxy, but the greatest concentration of them is… the Claremonts.
It reminds me of Stanford vs. HYPM and other Ivies: You have a great many choices for top universities out east, but there’s really only one such private option in California: Stanford… and that lack of regional competition is certainly something that helps drive Stanford’s applications and selectivity. Caltech is great at STEM, but it does not offer as much breadth of quality as the other tippy-tops.
@rookiedad you can see that there are a lot of great LAC’s across the US from the posts above. I consider college recommendations a bit like doctor recommendations from cancer survivors: You never met a survivor who didn’t credit their doctor for saving their life. Even bad doctors have a few survivors. The same goes for LAC’s…almost everyone loves the one they have connections with. That’s the way it should be.
The one thing that is very personal is distance. Great kids go to Bowdoin, Davidson and the Clairemont schools, but they would all have very different impacts on students and families. I suspect that the reason the Clairemont consortium is so competitive is lack of options nearby. There are some good schools (ie Reed), but there isn’t the density of the NE LAC’s. I have to believe that nearly every kid in California who applies to Bowdoin or Colgate or Swarthmore also applies to the CC schools.
Distance, and your families appetite for separation is where you have to make a decision. For our family, the Quaker consortium schools are 45 mins away, and have provided the perfect balance of access and isolation. That is probably closer than some kids want, and lacks the exploratory options going further from home enables…but it works for us. We’ve been to countless concerts, sporting events, and impromptu weekend dinners over the past 4 years. We’ve also been able to host out-of-towners for holidays and weekends, and have been amazed at the kids who’ve walked through our door. From a purely selfish parental perspective, less than an hour has been a gift. It also makes Thanksgiving weekend a LOT less stressful.
And to counter Prez’s assertion that there’s only Stanford and Caltech and no other competition among private universities in California, I’d offer that Berkeley and UCLA while not private have become as prestigious and difficult to get into and just as wonderful with their own cache and share of Nobel laureates, and world wide reputations.
There aren’t state schools of Berkeley or UCLA’s clout in the northeast, true. But they are two schools. (and do not give out much financial aid). I’m comparing apples to apples: prestigious private universities. If one wants an HYPM/Chicago and other Ivies-level private undergrad education in California, Stanford is it. Unless you want a STEM major – then you can add Caltech.
Bryn Mawr-Haverford serve a student body of ~2600 undergrads, which is comparable to standalone LACs such as Wesleyan, Middlebury, and Colgate. A larger set of resources and opportunities without a doubt, but students who want a mid-sized university experience might still find them too small.
I was admitted to Amherst and Swarthmore, and did not get the impression the consortium was used much by these students. Actually, I don’t think I met a single Swarthmore student who took a course at B/H- just two who went to UPenn for exclusively academic reasons. At Amherst, I definitely sensed smugness and disdain about taking courses at nearby UMass or Hampshire. Heard little about Smith or Mt. Holyoke beyond one student who got her IR certificate by taking courses there. For anyone thinking about visiting a consortium set of schools, I’d try to understand the logistics of the interaction while there in person, as well as student perceptions on their relations with the other colleges.
Pomona students can spend a semester at Swarthmore (@Corinthian 's child did so) and Colby. They also can do the 2-1-1-1 with Dartmouth. Pitzer has 3-2 engineering with Columbia, RPI, and Boston U. Claremont McKenna hosts a D.C. study away program which students from all 5 colleges can participate in. So if one wants to get a sense of the east coast, it’s certainly possible. Admittedly, beyond the D.C. program, none of the others are popular. Hard to leave the sunshine once you’ve experienced it =) (For a while, the Swarthmore program was on hiatus because too many Swarthmore students wanted to come to Pomona).
On post-grad life, it is true that on-campus recruiting at CCs is largely regional from SF/LA/Seattle/Portland offices. Pitzer is an especially young school, so there might not be many alums on the East Coast. I’d recommend Pitzer students to reach out to their Pomona/CMC connections, who are numerous in that region- while the schools have their individual identity, graduates of the CCs help each other and do many alumni events together. For Pomona, there is a program called Winter Break recruiting where students do interviews for jobs/internships in Boston, D.C., and New York while having their travel fees funded by Pomona. There is also an alumni mentorship program and database app where you can search who is near you and connect with them. Claremont McKenna has an all-expense paid 2-5 day “Networking Trek” to Chicago, D.C., and New York. FWIW, I’m based in the East Coast and have numerous friends who are here also. I recently attended a Sagehen party in NYC, and it was packed with alumni. The bulk of my graduating class is in LA/SF, to be certain, but I’ve found that the CCs have a strong reputation in certain circles. At this point and time, more than half of the undergraduates from all 5 colleges come from out of state or a foreign country, and the in-state percent continues to decline, so I think their reputation is climbing nationally.
Imagine if you could take five of the top small colleges in Massachusetts, each representing a different category, and plop them all down next to each other in the Boston suburbs. Maybe start with Babson (business college) and Olin (small engineering school), because they are already adjacent. Push Wellesley (women’s college) a couple miles east to join them, then somehow import Amherst (traditional coed LAC) and Hampshire (alternative college) from Central MA as well. Give them a joint library and let all the students socialize together.
That would actually be pretty cool. In California, it’s real.
This has all been fantastic feedback everyone and open to more if it’s out there. All replies are appreciated. Lots to consider and want to give her as much useful info as possible. And you may be helping me help others in the same boat, so again it’s all greatly appreciated.
A lot can change going forward and additional visits are coming. Open to non-consortium too. I’d say a trip to the Amherst area and others (NY, PA) are in the near future and having this knowledge ahead of time is very helpful.
Might be back with new questions or feedback once we see other schools.
There is room for a second “Ivy-Level” private university in California, and USC plans to be the one. They may not be there yet, but given how far they’ve come in the past 25 years, it wouldn’t surprise me if they get there in another 25 years.
USC in USNews “National University” Ranking:
1996: 44
2018: 21
As @nostalgicwisdom says, my D15 is a Pomona junior who just got back from spending Fall semester at Swarthmore. She had a great time at Swat and loved the easy access to Philadelphia. She felt that academically the schools are the same: similar student body, small classes, great professors who love to teach, etc. But she definitely noticed the difference in size that comes from the unique design of the Claremont consortium. It’s not just the ability to take classes on another campus, it’s the immediate physical presence of the other campuses and their students. There are 7 dining rooms to choose from and lots of clubs and activities are 5C. Even if you never took a class at one of the other campuses, you’d be sure to meet and interact with the other schools on almost a daily basis.
On the other hand, I am sympathetic to the selfish parental urge to have the kid nearby. We live a 1 hour flight away and D was just home for the weekend.