So, I’m all over the place in terms of colleges. I was planning on visiting Clark U in a few weeks, but I am having second thoughts about which college is best for me. I just found out yesterday I got into UCSD (!), and I’m pretty sure I’ll also get into UC Davis, so I am trying to choose between the UCs and the smaller liberal arts colleges, like Clark. I think I want to major in Public Health, so I am wondering whether Clark has good opportunities in this area even though there isn’t a specific major. I know it has more advising, smaller classes, etc, while at UCSD it may be harder to get the classes I want and the classes are bigger.
What do you think about this? I’ve also been admitted to smaller west coast colleges, like U of Puget Sound and Willamette, so any info on those programs would be awesome.
Financially, there is a difference but its a small one, since merit scholarships have mostly balanced it out.
Please let me know any thoughts on comparisons between these schools! Thanks!
^As aunt Bea said: are you in-state for California?
It sounds like you want a small, LAC environment - in which case a UC wouldn’t be the right fit.
UCSD is a GREAT public university. However, you won’t get the type of personalized attention and
interactive classes that come with LACs. Everybody will know your university’s name though ;-).
Willamette is a great school, UPuget Sound also (I like Willamette better but it’s subjective).
Why did you dismiss Clark? It’s at least as good as Willamette. The town’s not so great, but
within easy access to Boston, and they provide a terrific learning environment.
If you calculate (tuition, fees, room, board) - (scholarships, grants) =
what are the results for each school that admitted you?
Thanks for the replies!
Yes, I’m in-state for California.
I decided not to go for Clark because it is so far away and I would only want to go that far if it was my top school with an awesome offer. I’d rather go to a school similar to Clark, like Willamette, and stay on the west coast.
For each school I’m considering right now (UCD, UCSC, UCSD, Puget Sound, Willamette) the finances are about the same, though the UCs are a little less (by about 2-3 thousand dollars, depending on which UC).
I love the idea of the LAC environment, but I just don’t know if its worth it to sacrifice an opportunity to be in an organized Public health major like at UCSD with the resources they have. Even though there’s no organized major like this (though they have Bioethics at Puget Sound), would I be able to be a competitive applicant for grad school and gain as much experience in this field at an LAC?
Another option may be a smaller program within big university like Honors Program at UC Santa Cruz…
Public Health typically is a graduate degree, so it won’t be necessary to have a degree in that subject apply to grad school in that field. Beside a strong GPA and a science major, you’ll need volunteer and research experience.
In addition, be aware that UCs frown on keeping their undergrads for grad school, in order to increase diversity of training and thought, so that if your goal is UCSD Public Health, it may be better to attend UCD or another UC.
However, if you like the LAC environment with small, interactive classes and close-knit community, well… that’s not the UCs. They’re world-class institutions but they’re not focused on undergraduate education.
Email Willamette and Puget Sound and say you’re hoping to go to grad school in Public Policy, what majors would prepare you and can they put you in touch with current juniors or seniors who want to go that route?
In terms of academics there is a significant difference in quality and depth between UCSD and the LACs on your list. To base the decision on possible grad schools is premature. You, like a majority of undergrads, are likely to change majors at least once during your undergraduate years. Congratulations on your acceptance to UCSD. It’s a superb university in a great location. Go there.
UCSD graduates here. I want you to know few facts:
UCSD is called UC socially dead, and it’s true.
In terms of academic UCSD is a top institute. Majority of STEMs in UCSD are in top 15 worldwide. Life science is extremely strong there. Each year the ranking is going up.
It is currently the most funded research institute (more funding than Berkeley).
Half professors here don’t really try to teach but rather focusing purely on research. That’s why the college ranking you will never see UCSD in top30.
It’s a heaven for researchers, you will be able to meet and work with world top-ranked scientists if you get into a lab. And getting into a lab is easy in UCSD cuz there are too many labs.
The resources for studying all kinds of things by yourself are tremendous.
No D1 sports.
No football teams.
Right by the beach.
Must surf.
In general, if you like studying it’s definitely a good choice. For social people I would say don’t go there.
Congrats on your acceptances! As @zz3613 stressed, UC San Diego is an academic and research powerhouse. I believe the public health program is solid and works closely with both the School of Medicine and the new global health program.
I actually wouldn’t call UCSD UC Socially Dead—while the parties aren’t as frequent or easy to find as they are at many other schools, swim went to at least one each weekend fall quarter. It’s also really easy to get to know people, because everyone’s really friendly.
If you like the LAC environment, UCSD and UCSC shouldn’t immediately be written off. The college system at these schools does give them a little more intimate feel (from my experience at SD). You have to work harder to interact with professors (go to office hours, etc); however, the college system means that there are more than enough academic advisers available to talk to. I’ve also managed to enroll every class I wanted this year except one lab, and only got waitlisted once. And at least half my professors have actually been solid lecturers—the other half are…excellent in their field, I’m sure.
Unfortunately, I don’t know enough about UPS or Willamette to comment on their programs, but both schools are definitely solid choices as well.
Compare the number of biology courses offered and the average class sizes. You’ll see big differences in both numbers when you compare the research universities with the LACs.
Willamette’s Spring 2015 Biology course schedule is here: http://www.willamette.edu/dept/registrar/schedule/spring/index.html.
I count 42 Biology classes (including multiple sections for some courses).
I count 15 unique courses (after filtering out multiple sections for some courses).
The average enrollment size for all classes is 19.6 students.
For the 100-level courses alone, the average enrollment size is 22.6 students.
UCSD’s Spring 2015 course schedule is here: https://act.ucsd.edu/scheduleOfClasses/scheduleOfClassesStudent.htm
I count 1556 Biology department classes (including multiple sections for some courses).
I count 130 unique Biology department courses (after filtering out multiple sections for some courses).
The average enrollment size for all classes appears to be 129 students.
For the 100-level courses alone, the average enrollment size appears to be 193 students.
I say “appears to be”, because there are so many UCSD courses … and you and I may differ over exactly what to count as a “Biology” course. To replicate my query, go to: http://cape.ucsd.edu/responses/Results.aspx
then select “BIOL - Biological Sciences” as the department; hit “search”; then (using a spreadsheet) average the numbers in the 4th column (“Enroll”).
Even as few as 15 courses is far more than you can take in a single term. Is it enough to cover your interests? Does the schedule cover all required courses often enough to allow you to graduate on time? Willamette’s overall 4-year graduation rate is 71%. UCSD’s is 57%.
You could look at post-graduation outcome measurements such as PhD production rates.
According to NSF data (https://ncsesdata.nsf.gov/webcaspar/), from 2003-2012, UCSD alumni earned 693 PhDs in the life sciences. Willamette alumni earned 46. However, according to IPEDS data (http://nces.ed.gov/ipeds/datacenter/), UCSD seems to graduate about 38X as many biological sciences majors as Willamette (based on 2008-9 bachelor degree data). If 2008-09 was a typical year, we could expect about 11500 UCSD graduates with biology degrees v. about 300 from Willamette over a 10 year period. So it appears that about 6% of UCSD “biology” alumni earn doctorates in the life sciences (700/1150) vs. about 16% of Willamette “biology” alumni (50/300) over the 10-year period covered by the NSF data. Other studies I’ve seen consistently show that small liberal arts colleges tend to perform very well in alumni per-capita PhD completion rates (http://www.reed.edu/ir/phd.html). This suggests to me that their relatively limited course offerings (and other resources) aren’t necessarily significant obstacles to academic success. In fact, smaller classes and better faculty mentoring may more than outweigh those limits for many students.
A lot depends on YOU and the kind of environment in which you’d thrive. Numbers alone never tell the whole story (so you need to visit both schools, check out the interests/backgrounds of professors who actually teach undergrads, talk to students, etc.)
Wow, thank you for all the responses. I really appreciate the info.
Yeah, I was a little concerned hearing about the “socially dead” reputation, but I’m going to do the overnight visit and see what I think, since I’ve never been to UCSD. I’m definitely into the whole LAC environment for academics (I think), but I don’t want to eliminate the UCs from my list just yet so I’ll visit and go from there.
Does it add an LAC-ish environment to do the honors program? Because I think I should get into Honors for Santa Cruz and maybe at Davis.
Not at the UCs, not really. It makes the universities look a bit less huge and impersonal, but not to the extent of personal attention at a LAC (where classes of 18-22 students are common and 40 is large, vs. 40 being “small” at a UC with 600 being “large”).