So, so tired of where this thread is…go ahead flame me. I find it sad, very sad.
I’ll second that!!!
I’ll add flame to his fire by saying that we have a very good friend attending NYU and her parents are very disappointed in the academics. The D and parents have all said that her academic classes are ridiculously easy compared to what she took in high school. This girl was not in the top 10% of her class.
I think this is entirely opinion based, and if your high school was maybe a small, rural school and not extremely rigorous lacking numerous AP , honors and dual enrollment classes then the coursework at a place like NYU may seem strong. But to parents and students that have been at, or above, that level for years more would be expected from a school that touts such high academics.
My kid did not find the academics at NYU to be difficult. It was not a reach academically to be admitted or to achieve while enrolled there. I was commenting earlier that the academic selectivity to NYU is more difficult than to a number of other BFA in MT programs. NYU is not the hardest academic school clearly. My student felt well prepared entering NYU and did not find the academics too difficult. Had she not been striving for a BFA in MT, she likely would have applied to colleges more academically selective than NYU. NYU was not a reach school in terms of academics, but just simply more academically selective than other BFA programs on her list. That is all. My other kid who had very strong academics, went to a more selective college than NYU. The NYU kid wanted a BFA and you have to go where those are offered if you want that sort of degree program.
Dusing, I don’t see any “flame” to a fire that your friend’s kid thinks the academics are easy at NYU. For a very good student, they are not very difficult. NYU is not nearly as selective as some other universities by far. It simply is one of the more academically selective BFA MT programs. It won’t be too hard for a strong student!
I’m pretty sure when you refer to “small rural public school” you are referring to my kids’ school. But I can assure you that the rigor of their Honors courses was high. My kids accelerated beyond the HS curriculum. They also took long distance college level classes. They were in AP Calculus as juniors. People should not assume that the rigor in the hardest courses in such a school was not high. This was complemented by supervised independent studies, acceleration, and taking long distance college courses as well. Had it not been rigorous, they would not have succeeded at their selective colleges or won scholarships and awards prior to entering or in senior year of college. Strong students can come out of all types of high schools. Students from our little rural public school have succeeded at Ivies, Stanford, MIT and the like.
Bravo @Dusing2! 2019er’s…reclaim this thread. You are so close to finding pots of gold at the end of your child’s rainbow! They have all worked so hard and they are all so deserving of everything that is good. And to those who have made spreadsheets, packed bags of clothes with tights, those cup thingies …dance belts!!!..and munchies, who have stood in hallways waiting patiently, picked them up and held them and laughed with them and put on a suit of armor to ward off the arrows of discontent…onward…grab an umbrella drink and a donut!
Shoot, I knew I couldn’t type fast enough…there is an “ignore” button under their name…under mine for that matter…feel free to use it!
puma, feel free to ignore posts you wish to ignore. CC makes that easy for you to do.
This thread and the whole MT forum for that matter, is full of those who have gone before this year’s class. Many people have benefitted from the sharing and giving that those who are done the process have passed onto or answered questions for those who are currently immersed in it. It’s a discussion.
Thank you for sharing your “vent!” 
I believe Puma is referring to the fact that this is less of a ‘discussion’ and more of a pulpit at current.
My kid is most interested in receiving the best training possible in the craft. We are looking at the training each school offers in Music, theatre and dance and choosing the school we feel can provide our kid the best education in those areas. To us, other academics are all secondary to these areas and if they happen to be great, that is just icing on the cake. While it is great to be well-rounded and educated in all areas, we feel much of that has been provided through a very rigorous high school education, discussions at home, and travel. There are so few academic classes that are required of BFA kids that it really is not going to make that much difference in their education whether it is taught to them at Harvard or Podunk U. And for my kid who already has credit for nearly all of the GenEds, the academic classes are even less important.
I can only repeat what I’ves said here before on several occasions: when asked what they look for most my D’s chair said they look for smart kids. Measure that any way you like, but they know the rigors of ther programs and know they need smart kids to handle it.
For those not as interested in academics per se it might be that a conservatory program is a better fit.
Dusing, that is great that your kid knows what sort of college and program he/she wants! It’s all about the fit. Some students want the acting, singing and dance training, as well as college coursework about Theater Studies and other subjects, even if their HS curriculum was rigorous. That is why college selection is so individual! I have worked with MT applicants who would be happy to never see another academic class ever again. And there are others who enjoy and want to further their learning beyond conservatory training, and this is not the same as the “Gen Eds” that AP courses cover, but other kinds of college courses that are not offered in HS. Some of the latter types of students with whom I have worked have come out of very rigorous private prep schools in fact.
One type of program is NOT better than the other. That is why there are so many college options and that fit is crucial to one’s selection criteria! One kid’s MT college list should not look like the others!
@soozievt ^agree! The lists should be as individual as the student. Sometimes it is we parents who need to back off. We sometimes push the academics and type of school (university, college, conservatory) based on our own biases and desires. I got a few “it’s my education” reminders along the way!
Spot on @pghmusician. Thank you. I agree with you @soozievt. In my opinion, your comments on this thread and on another thread this year for parents of the class of 2019 have ceased to be helpful and more about being argumentative. They also tend to take on a condescending tone and not a tone of wanting to be in service to anyone but needing to expound on what clearly, sometimes, is the obvious or by pounding things into the ground over and over again. It is unfortunate when threads become “shut down” to others who really do want to share, be heard and learn or even vent about their experience because someone takes over the discussion overwhelmingly. I want everyone to feel welcome to express their opinions freely and openly and also to know that they are valued opinions. You are a veteran of many years and have 29,531 posts to your name. Because of that I ask you to be wise in the content and number of times you expound on the same subject and respectful of others. I know there are others who would love to be heard.
I mean this in the nicest way, but on occaision @soozievt, your posts become highly personalized and pertain primarily to your daughter’s rather unique experience and accomplishments roughly 6+ years ago. My daughter is in the current cycle for example, and I’ve never mentioned a thing about her personal accomplishments, grades, scores, acceptances etc. etc. because typically it does not further the discussion. It isnt that the opinions of “the elders” are not valuable. Many of your posts provide a wealth of information. But when they pertain to your personal and unique situation more than 6 years ago, or have anything to do with NYU (where objectivity is a bit lacking) not so much. >:D<
And @ jeffandann if a student is truly interested in “academics per se” an MT BFA probably isnt a good fit anywhere, University or conservatory. As @Dusing2 correctly points out, the few classes required in these disciplines render the discussion about academics mostly irrelevant. The difference between a Conservatory and a Conservatory Approach at most Universities is about 6 classes over 4 years. If that. I get the “university experience” i.e., football team, greek life, etc.-- but to argue that an MT BFA at a conservatory style Universtiy is getting a “well-rounded” education falls in the rainbows and unicorns category.
It needed to be said.
Hear, hear!! All of the above being said…and said again…I think we can agree that the subject has been covered ad nauseam.
@Dusing2 curious: is PodunkU a BFA audition school? Do you think we could apply now or is it too late? Looking at the portals, mail all day is driving me nuts!
Gee- a lot can happen during a run to target! @tramsmom - I wasn’t referring specifically to SAT/ACT scores when I commented- you are entirely correct that a few questions in either direction changes score- as can some well placed prep. My own kid took a 1st round, then spent a couple sessions with a tutor to really dig into what the test wants (I teach AP classes and am an AP reader- I assure you the college board is all about the game, strategy is more important than content knowledge) she raised her score on the second round ACT by 4 points. Was she smarter 3 months later for that 2nd round? I don’t think so, but the test did.
When I commented earlier- I was speaking about grades and overall academics. And I guess it was on my mind from a conversation with D last night. One of her closest friends has decided to leave NYU b/c the academics (on top of the intensity of BFA classes- which according to D - he adores) are too much for him. I confess I don’t know all his stats etc- but I know that he was originally wait listed academically (after being accepted artistically) and had to submit some additional academic info last year. And at this point he’s unlikely to be able to transfer to another BFA program for next year (he is working on it) so is debating community college for gen eds vs gap year vs staying in NYC and doing some training while reapplying etc. If I recall correctly- he had 3-4 BFA acceptances last year. I’ve no idea what schools, but it seems plausible to think there might have been something that would have been a better academic fit- and I feel for the kid, it’s a tough spot.
So that is a long and semi-rambling explanation of what was on my mind earlier. Sorry to set off an unhappy tangent. But as important as artistic classes are- they are only part of the college experience. IMHO when choosing a school- a wholistic viewpoint - and thinking about what you want from college as a whole- will lead to a better overall fit
Trasnmom, I have been on this site for over two years now and I don’t believe I’ve ever seen comments like this. I am not sure where your negativity is coming from. My wife is a college counselor and advises kids on performing arts programs and many other majors. I wish she could come on here and discuss because she could offer many here a lot in terms of what specific grades, test scores, ACT vs. SAT, etc schools look for. If you or others have specific questions I’d be happy to pass them along for her comments.
When I say academics per se, if you arre attending a university in which the theater department is part, then you have to meet university requirements for admission before anything else. You can be very talented but if you do not meet the minimum admission standards than you are not accepted. I know personally of two kids that this happened to; each accepted to the BFA but ultimately denied acceptance. So when talking to parents who are seeking information, one thing I always tell them is to be very careful to check the general admission guidelines. Some admission requirements are obviously much tougher at some schools than others. But it really helps to know what they are before setting your sights on a school where you will not qualify academically. It broke these kids’ hearts when they didn’t get accepted academically, and if that advice helps others here that are perhaps parents of say freshman, then I’m glad.
As far as differences in academic rigor between a university vs. conservatory type program, I can only say there are many more than 6 courses difference in the program my D attends, based on comparison to other curriicula I’ve seen. Plus I have been surprised by the academic rigor of the theater courses they take. Each student has to pass academic juires as well as dance and voice juries each semester, and their academic juries include course work like music theory, sight singing, aesthetics (all theater majors have to take this and half don’t make it through). Others would have to comment on other programs. But I went into this thinking that academics wouldn’t amount to much in a MT program, and I have had my eyes opened. I suspect this is why my D’s chair has said a priority for them is to get smart kids.
The folks that have gone through this process are genuinely here to try and pay it forward, in that there were those who helped us when going through the craziness of applications, etc. If the information being provided is not helpful, I am indeed sorry. But we can only offer advice based on the experiences we’ve had, and our experiences by and large have come through the programs our children are in. So we can only offer advice based on our kid (so we can only talk about what has happened to our own child) and his or her program. If that makes it feel like a certain program or child’s experience is being overstated, I don’t think it’s intentional.
This thread has venting in its title. For those going through right now waiting on acceptances, it’s a perfect time to vent. Those of us that have been through this understand. But please don’t make it personal.
In my view, this is a discussion that got onto a topic and there are various views on the topic. I am not the only person in the discussion or that holds the views I hold on the subject that came under discussion.
Puma, you were going to put me on ignore and you certainly are free to do that but apparently keep reading my posts and commenting about them. You don’t need to publicly announce your desire to put someone on “ignore.”
tramsmom, I have referenced my daughter in some posts here, and others have referenced their own kids from time to time. I have never in 13 years on CC posted either of my daughters’ grades, GPA, test scores, etc. I have posted acceptances. Clearly others have posted acceptances, and now there is even threads devoted to posting acceptances on CC! Over the years, I have also assisted many people with helpful information because I believe in paying it forward. Others did it for me back when my kids went through college admissions. Many find it helpful to have those who have stayed on and are not in the midst of the current cycle. In my posts in the current discussion, I have also referenced the many students whom I have advised in college admissions, not simply my own kids.
In any case, none of my posts violate the Terms of Service on CC. If you don’t like my posts, ignore them. Discussing members on the forum actually is against the Terms of Service and so I would appreciate if your complaints about me were not posted here and you can use backchannel for that. That is based on the rules of posting on CC after all.
EDIT to add: I did not see JeffandAnn’s post above until after I posted, but I’m trying to say the something he said!
My D is a 2019, so I’ll try to set this thread in another direction as has been suggested. First, though, I see nothing wrong with people stating that, basically, strong academics are what some seek and others don’t; that is not somehow wrong or insulting to anyone. Nor do I think the way anyone discussed academics here was insulting. (Although, I do find a couple people’s tones and words offensive and wonder if some of this would have occurred if this “discussion” had been face-to-face. People–whether here for a long while or brand new–have valuable insights and opinions and all are free to jump in–no one is stopping them. Just because some like to be thorough in their posts, sometimes to redundancy, and others like brevity does not mean one approach is valuable and one is not.) Neither is it somehow offensive that some have higher test scores while others don’t, and that some take test prep courses and others don’t. Moreover, 2 of the people in this discussion actually have students at NYU, so, of course they will bring up that particular program as an example a lot; other people talk about their own kids’ programs, too–naturally–and often with gladness that their child was/is there. Great! I, for one, am glad that there are so many programs in which students are happy! That means more lovely options for all of the auditioners! I bet most of us still going through this process (or about to go through it) appreciate hearing about everyone’s experiences with different programs, and, of course, it’s great to hear from people with personal experiences in the programs. (As an aside–honestly, the angst sometimes here towards NYU by people without students there gets old fast, and I don’t even have a child there. Did my D audition and love it? Yes. Is it the right fit for her? I don’t know–she’s a strong student, but she’s not really looking for heavy academics even though she loves their program and hopes for an acceptance there. I’ll worry about that if she’s lucky enough to be accepted and it works out financially–both of which she’d have to be very lucky to get, given the odds for both. And, please don’t get into a discussion about those odds. That wasn’t the point of bringing it up.)
The point is that I think we should try to be respectful. This is obviously a stressful time for all of us with kids in it this year, so can we please all add kindness and graciousness to this process?
Back to reclaiming… How fast are your MT kids running to the mailboxes? Obsessively checking email? It’s not even March yet, lol! Mine runs out daily and gets frustrated with the mail coming from “her schools” that do not contain a result.