Was yours for Bienen by chance? I think my son’s were viewed yesterday too.
yes!
Just DMed you!
I thought the same thing, but I called to find out
So why would Carnegie Mellon ask for scales for prescreen? I am a little surprised.
Colburn asks for scales for our prescreen…
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Not for my son’s instrument. But wow.
Supposedly, the Colburn guy for our instrument really likes scales and thinks he can learn a lot about one’s playing ability simply from a few scales… maybe? I’m not a musician, so I don’t really know.
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CMU was also the only school to ask for arpeggios for voice applicants!
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I’m not sure I agree. With music it’s all about “fit” of student and teacher/studio, and I think the essays can carry more weight, especially at schools that don’t have stand-alone conservatories. Personality can come through in the essays in a way not always possible in a formal audition.
Students should be able to pull together good essays- not perfect, but good. Even if that means getting some professional help; five hours of essay tutoring is nothing relative to the hours of practice musicians put in.
I kinda hate this- I can tell when people pretend to watch rather than watch. I could also tell when people watched repeatedly for summer festivals…
I once went to a panel of music admissions officers and I was shocked by their responses to who reviews prescreens. Just to let you know, it varies widely by school.
At some schools, there is an initial screening done by someone really low level (either junior faculty or even someone in the admissions office) to screen out all the definitely nots. Then the remainder are sent to actual teachers for final review – and this varies from the absolutely most junior faculty all the way up to the most famous teacher of all.
At some schools, the faculty reviews all submissions. At others, only the admissions office reviews them (this tends to be ones that pass through almost all the kids).
You may be able to find out who reviews at specific schools, but know that it really varies widely.
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Yes, of course. And, I didn’t mean for my point to be read as…it doesn’t matter AT ALL. I’m assuming that these are accomplished, smart kids who can put together a decent essay. I read over my kids…and thought “good enough”. It sounded like her and with a few tweaks…that was that. She spend a LOT more time on audition prep.
There are eager beavers in the world with more time and energy…and probs money…than me. I see you all out there on this site! Go for it. I applaud all your energy. And, YES, if you can do all or most to the nth degree. Do it. That would be best.
But I’m guessing that there are some posters/lurkers just like I was…a little haggard, tired, crabby, with jobs that requires attn to keep the money flowing…while still feeling poor…that really can’t find the time or money for another tutoring session. My goodness…I was just trying to find sleep on occasion while worrying about airline tickets and hotel prices!
Still…my little princess (despite my failures…which were many!) got accepted for UG at all schools with scholarships. So to the parents who have to live “dangerously” and not do it all…there is HOPE! Hang in there!
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Well said @bridgenail , Well said and played. I more than understand why people can obsess with the process, because to be honest it is one of the most opaque, frustrating, ambiguous, scary, daunting things because there is no magic formula. I know a parent who hired one of those admission coaches and I was trying to figure out how to tell them that the outcome likely would be no different other than paying that person. There are definitely things you can do to make admissions a little more likely (I call them edges), for example having exposure to teachers on faculty, or having knowledge of what audition panels at a particular program tend to look for (for example, if you are a violinist, some schools will only want to hear part of a bach sonata or partita, other schools may have you play almost the whole thing; also depends on who is on the panel), but it is just that, a helpful thing.
My one piece of advice is take everything you hear with a pound of salt, because it is filtered through other people’s experiences and their own particular set of rose colored or dark glasses.It can be really overwhelming and it is really easy to think “we couldn’t do that, we are doomed”. I saw a lot of that, where kids at the prep program my son was in were doing all these things that there was no way we could do, they were going to these high end summer programs, going to Europe to study ,etc.
Leaving out other factors like academics at schools within universities (like Northwestern, etc), the reality is that for music performance it is going to come down to their audition, pure and simple. Kids get into top programs not having done all the things people talk about, and in fact I would bet a lot more get in that haven’t done those things then those that have. If the kid plays well enough at the audition that it meets the standard and a teacher wants to teach them, they will get in and this happens with most of the kids admitted IME, they haven’t done all the bells and whistles (and folks, I’ll be careful, this again is as the parent of a classical violinist, which may or may not apply to kids going into contemporary music or jazz or even another instrument).
There are things you have to or should do, but to me they are kind of obvious:
-Have a high level teacher, the best you can find, to get their playing level as high as possible.
-Research teachers through whatever connections you have , and try to be aware of what your kid needs in a teacher (and that of course isn’t easy). Music instruction is like an apprentice and master relationship and it will work best when they jell.
-Try to get the kid into performing groups that may be available. Youth Symphonies, chamber, and yes All State are all examples of things that may be there (and school programs too, if they exist).
-If you can’t travel (and I understand that only too well budgetarily and otherwise), see if you can find teachers at programs willing to do sample lessons via zoom to get a feel for them.
And in the end, it will come down to the audition, and know that you likely have done everything you can and know that admissions is kind of a crap shoot in many ways, there have been a lot of tales on here and what I have seen where some really impressive students got rejected by schools they thought were a kind of safety. And one thing I have learned is that if the preparation is there going into the audition process (good teaching and putting the effort into practicing), the kid will do okay. If a teacher match isn’t perfect the kid will still learn (if the program has other faculty, may be able to switch). A lot of kids in classical music go on to get masters degree programs, most music students over the course of their career end up with more than a few teachers:).
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There is free essay help here on CC. No need to spend money.
I have been reading essays for some time. I would say the goal is to do no harm. Most essays will be neutral in effect, I believe, and a few will be outstanding, a few will be negatives. In the context of BM applications I would not stress about essays.
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And one thing I would add is that it is ok to allow your kid to navigate the audition process as much as they can. Support them with the knowledge that is indeed opaque and very non linear. Have faith that their talent and drive will get them where they need to be.
Their chosen profession (assuming they continue with music once out of school) is also opaque and non linear. The more they can advocate for themselves and embrace the twists and turns, the better.
It is all such an adventure! I very much appreciate the input from parents with musicians in the post academic professional world. It helps me to deal with the ambiguity as mine transitions to a working musician.
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Do you happen to know how NYU does their academic acceptance versus music school acceptance?
Blockquote Kids get into top programs not having done all the things people talk about, and in fact I would bet a lot more get in that haven’t done those things then those that have. If the kid plays well enough at the audition that it meets the standard and a teacher wants to teach them, they will get in and this happens with most of the kids admitted IME, they haven’t done all the bells and whistles (and folks, I’ll be careful, this again is as the parent of a classical violinist
Would you be willing to expand on this a bit? My head feels a little like a ping pong ball bc we keep being given such conflicting information. We live in an area with no pre-college programs. Many of the things I read about it in terms of classical violin are just not available anywhere in our geographical area. That said, we have an amazing citywide youth orchestra with 6 playing levels from novice to youth symphony. The conductors are extremely professional. Our dd’s opportunities within the youth orchestra and their chamber program are fabulous. Her violin teacher is equally excellent. All-State orchestra is great and dd had an awesome experience there last yr. (She is currently a 9th grader.)
I have been looking at summer camps, but they are so expensive. She plays on a student violin. IOW, we are not a family where pursuing this path is going to be easy. She was principal 2nd for a Four Seasons concert and the soloist was an adult phD violinist who is a concertmaster for 2 smaller city orchestras as well as teaches at multiple Us where he is from. He assured her that summer programs were not necessary and that audition reviewers completely ignore the quality of the instrument. He said they can tell if the student’s playing is being held back by the instrument and 100% account for that. He emphasized multiple times that they are looking for students they want to teach.
While dd found his comments reassuring, they did leave me confused. I have heard that instrument matters, having personal interactions from other scenarios with people who are reviewing auditions matters…those are things we don’t have. Killing our budget and sending her to a camp seems like the only way to make her even have a chance to meet “people.”
@anotheroboemom , I agree totally. By the time they are getting ready to apply the kids already likely have a vision of things, and with our son at least, he really drove the process. We acted as support basically, he used us as a sounding board, or if he needed something (like help with pre screen recording, I think back then it was audio only).
My opinion (FWIW) is that letting the kid drive the process is an important test in of itself and here is why. Music requires incredible resourcefullness and self motivation, someone needs to be able to navigate both their learning and their career after because it is so ambiguous and the like. In comparison to what music will be like in school and in a career, the decision on where to study, what teacher to study with, is straightforward and clear (note in comparison, given how murky this process is). Music is so very different than what high school was like or even academic study, because so much lies with the student. The process of deciding where to go to school, handling auditions, and so forth is kind of a belleweather to me about if the student is serious about music because it is basically foreshadowing what is coming, it isn’t all just the joy of playing music, there is a lot of discipline and internal drive with it. That doesn’t mean parents don’t have a role but it really should be as support and an advisor more than an active role.
When we toured NYU this summer for the Jazz program, we were told academic admissions were separate from music admissions and that the bar was not lowered for either side. The professor implied that an accomplished musician would not get a bump in academic evaluation and a high stats kid would not get any advantage with the music school.