For double bass applicants, I just learned that Bard Conservatory has added Satoshi Okamoto to their faculty.
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I have a question about math! My son took algebra in 7th grade, which means he took precalculus in 10th. Math is not his forte (pun intended!), and although he managed B’s, he sometimes spent as much time on math as all his other classes combined. We were told his more academically rigorous schools (Oberlin, UMich, Case Western) will want 4 years of math in high school (regardless of level reached), which set him up for having to take Calc AB and BC junior and senior years. We had him do AP Stats last year instead of calc so he wouldn’t need to take BC senior year, but he’s having a very negative reaction to his AP Calc AB teacher this year. He asked to move down to “regular” calculus (not AP) but the class is full. His counselor (mistakenly) moved him out of calculus into an engineering class that our high school counts as math but colleges won’t. There are 0 other math classes at our high school he can take.
So here’s my question. Has any music kid gotten into any of these schools with only 3 years of high school math?
My son is taking AP Computer Science A this year (our school counts it as math but colleges don’t), has taken AP Stats, AP Physics I and II, and other AP/college level social studies and english classes. So his course load is strong, he’s just missing that 4th year of math. The college counselor I asked said she’s never had a kid get accepted at those schools without 4 years of math. So I’m wondering if I need to go argue with the high school to get him into the regular calculus class.
That’s a really tricky situation! Hopefully other people will chime in with actual experience but just looking at the CDS (go to section C5 which is the course requirement), Oberlin requires 3 and is silent on recommended, so there’s that. Case Western requires 3 but recommends 4 and UMICH requires 3-4 (I guess depends on the school or major) and recommends 4. Does the consultant you spoke to work with music majors?
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This is really good info, thanks. I had found requirements for these schools but was unaware of recommendations. The college counselor I talked to has some music major students, but is not specifically focused on music majors. Thinking back on our conversation, the information she shared may be primarily about NON music majors. That’s heartening 
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This is incredibly helpful.
Just piping in here that we’re feeling overwhelmed in our house! My kid is focusing on tightening up his list of schools, doing practice zoom lessons with professors, and working on his essays. Oh, and practicing his rep, playing in all the ensembles, etc. One question I have for all the vets if they’re reading is what to make of several schools having live audition days on the same day. I understand my kid may not get invited to a live audition, but I am curious about all the conflicts. Maybe it just takes care of itself. Solidarity to all the families out there especially those of us who are doing this for the first time (this is not my first kid going to college, but my first musician!).
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The schedule may look overwhelming, but it does tend to take care of itself. Of course it depends on how many schools you are targeting and the number of prescreens passed. A few thoughts to hopefully ease your mind a little:
Generally the school list gets pared down a little in the next few months as your musician finishes prescreens and submissions.
Once pre screens are reviewed, of course the number of schools may decrease. This may be a little painful, but also helpful feedback to assess fit of student and program. I encourage everyone to take it as positive feedback.
Many programs offer alternate times on request. You may even be able to schedule two in the same geographical area within a day or two to save travel cost/time. Remember everyone has a similar overbooked dance card. Schools do accommodate. (Of course some have zero flexibility, but you end up scheduling those first and working around them with others)
Remote auditions are very common these days. They are a great option to alleviate cost and an impossible schedule.
Some students get an early acceptance and financial picture. If your musician is lucky enough to have a great early offer, some programs can come off the list.
So much to think about! And I remember having to curb my tendency to over think and over plan. But the path becomes clearer and seems to all work out.
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I can’t see Oberlin, at least, requiring 4 high school years of math, especially if you have already started as advanced in math in grade 9, for someone applying as a music major. If a college wants kids to be the top in music, spending 4 hours a night on academic HW instead of practicing and doing music activities isn’t the sensible choice. Especially with all the mental health issues that colleges and schools pretend to care about, why should a kid whose goal is music and who has the ability and resume to prove they are one of the best also be taking the courses kids who apply to the school of engineering take? Jack of all trades might work for some kids, but for others it probably ends up as master of nothing. I’d be interested in stories of kids who didn’t take rigorous academic schedules but still got into top tier colleges or universities that have a separate school of music.
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You guys are making me feel like I’m really behind schedule. I’ve only just managed to get my son to narrow his list down to a reasonable number at 7. He’s a senior, jazz pianist in a jazz studies program at an arts HS and mostly interested in places where dual degrees or similar are doable. I’m curious if anyone has experiences at these schools and can offer some insight:
- Our local state university with respectable music school
- Northwestern
- UCLA (not dual degree but he’s intrigued by their multi-disciplinary Global Jazz Studies program and has worked with a professor there)
- Oberlin
- Rochester/Eastman
- UNC - Chapel Hill (probably not dual degree per se but they have a sort of expanded double major system)
- Indiana/Jacobs (BS in Music and an Outside Field)
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You aren’t behind. Just have your son keep plugging away. Feel free to message me your specific questions about Jacobs. I have had 2 kids already attend there–one in voice who did a BSOF with history, one in jazz guitar performance–and have one there now–voice who is currently pursuing a BM but may add a minor or an outside field in theater. I also know three other kids there now who are pursuing BSOFs. I can also speak to Oberlin at least about the audition process–my oldest was accepted to their dual degree program but ended up choosing Jacobs.
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My daughter was accepted to UMich and she took 3 years and one semester of math. She is a performance major though. However, she did have to be academically accepted by UMich as well as through her studio audition.
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You are not behind! 7 is a great number. My jazz guitarist was at 6 (down from 12-15 he was initially interested in) when he was applying (he is a sophomore now). He also attended an Arts magnet high school. They were incredibly helpful! He only applied to one on your list (Eastman), he didn’t necessarily want a dual degree but 100% wanted a true college experience (ie. sports teams, music school with the general population on campus, etc). His jazz program is naturally lending itself to a minor in History
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When my daughter was going through the process, we kept a spreadsheet of all the available audition slots for each of the schools on her list. We marked off the dates she was not available (e.g., midterm exams, regional and state choir festivals, etc.) and “penciled in” her ideal audition dates for each school. Once we found out where she passed prescreens, we were able to quickly pick the dates we wanted. Two schools allowed her to schedule an interview on an alternative date (one of these was the school she ended up attending). In my experience, planning early helped!
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I don’t want to steer you wrong but here was our situation and hopefully you can apply it to your own!
Our D applied to 4 universities and 3 conservatories. She got into all the universities with only 3 years of math and 3 (maybe 3.5) of science. She had a really academically light schedule her senior year. She also had really good grades and had gotten through Calc AB her junior year.
She also ONLY applied to each school as a performance major. If she wanted to double major in a science, for example, I’m not sure if she would have been accepted.
All the standard advice to take 4 years of math is for non-music majors.
The conservatories, including Oberlin, definitely don’t care!
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This is really helpful information, thank you! I’m still a little nervous because he’s targeting dual degree programs, and honestly we were counting some on his academics balancing a less-strong music resume. But I think this whole process is nerve-wracking for all of us here, no matter what our unique situation is!
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Thank you, that’s helpful!
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Since he’s doing dual degrees I think it’s a different ball game then! Our experience might not be the best example. Hopefully it will work itself out!
Reach out to schools in question and confirm their requirements and recommendations, these could be two different things sometimes, reflected in CDS too - but it is a previous admissions cycle data. My kid applied in 2023 to several dual degree academic/music schools and conservatories, and it was obvious that in some schools rigorous high school curriculum & grades played more important role than in others. Good luck!
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My son has started to whittle down his list of schools to apply to - now it’s getting all the applications filled out in the midst of a busy fall…
The current plan is:
Oberlin
Eastman
USC Thornton
Colburn
University of Ottawa
Hopefully we’re aiming right- guess that will become clearer when we hear back from prescreens. They all seem to be quite different environments- I think he’s looking forward to really seeing them in person during the auditions and getting a better understanding of what he truly wants/doesn’t want for the next 4 years.
Running the NPCs don’t show all as affordable, but a few should be. We’re taking the advice that we should try some that may not appear affordable as there may be music scholarships that don’t show up in the NPCs.
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As a veteran of the process, a couple of thoughts on various topics here:
1)When it comes to questions about requirements, CC is great, there is a lot of experience here. That said, when you have questions about, as in one post, math requirements, the best bet is to contact the admissions department. For kids going into music inside a university, they generally are not going to be as persnickety as they would for an academic admit, but honestly it is what they are there for, and with few exceptions, they are usually very helpful and nice about it. They know the kids and parents are stressing, know how daunting it can look.
2)Auditions often overlap, given that auditions happen in roughly the same window (roughly 6 weeks, mid jan to end of March give or take), they know kids might be auditioning at a lot of schools. Once you have passed pre screen (if there is), contact the admissions department and let them know that you have conflict(s). They usually IME are pretty good at helping with that.
Wish everyone luck!
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