There was a time when the jazz parents were dominate on this site! They were so cool. I could feel the rumbled hair and laid back clothes through their posts. Those were the days when there were no rules! Everyone was just improvising…
8 Likes
None of these is the best for every student. The best school is the one which will set up the young musicians to thrive technically and professionally, and that varies among schools and across teachers/locales.
4 Likes
Agree completely - I thank goodness last year had none or x little of this.
3 Likes
Not going to argue, I was talking in generalities and wasn’t referring to any of the more caustic posts.As I wrote in my post, over the years parents on here who are disappointed by the results of auditions/disappointed at financials/disappointed for their kids can let things out on here that aren’t great, some of which borders on the obnoxious. Sometimes with parents the audition is the first time their kid has faced disappointing results, kids who were the big fish in the small pond find out what the ocean is like. They can forget that music is global, that in auditions at music schools the level of playing is very high and how subjective the audition process is. I understand the disappointment that drives it, as parents we want the best for the kids but I also to be honest bristle when I see things like saying “the kid is the best on their instrument by far”, because the first thought was "how do you measure that? How do you know that? Who are we comparing that too?? In academics, you can say “well,my kid had a 1600 SAT, 4.5 GPA, 10 AP classes ,was salutorian of his school”, which at least has some measure of objectivity to it . Music? It is all subjective really, so what the best is is not all that cut and dried.
I am just sorry it got toxic at times on here , it has happened over the years, usually it is parents who either claim to have the golden ticket method to ‘make it in music’, or those who probably for the first time are realizing how difficult music is, disappointed in auditions or financial side.
Yeah! Let’s hear it for the jazz parents!!! I really look forward to any posts by fellow jazz parents because the admission and then the actual jazz program can be so different than classical or even pop or contemporary. The journey is the same only different if you know what I mean. The little nuggets of intel on schools, faculty and programs that are jazz specific have been invaluable in S’s journey so far.
Because jazz is all about improvisation and collaboration, it’s been crucial that he visited the schools that he applied to so he could check out the scene, the faculty and the other students. Out of the 15 school he applied to, there was only one he didn’t visit, and he visited 3 more that he didn’t apply to. This board really helped us get a feel for the different schools before we made the trips.
Thank you all for all the advice and good wishes. Only two more decisions to go, then waiting for merit and waitlist movement… phew!
6 Likes
Jazz mom here for all the questions!
5 Likes
I felt shy about bringing up the issue of negative tone and am glad that people are sharing.
I would like to add that for many of us, parental bank account certainly does count- for years to be honest.
I also think that old timers are prominent here today, so I am going to stop here.
8 Likes
My son is so torn between Peabody and a Jacob’s SOM for his MM trumpet performance. Both professors have reached out. Both schools have offered very gracious scholarships with both professors advocating for full scholarships.
Any info from personal experience is welcome. It’s making me sick, so I can imagine how he feels. He’s developed a relationship with these professors during this process. They’ve been so complimentary and kind. He is feeling tremendous guilt having to turn one school down and he’s struggling with deciding which one. As he put it “there really isn’t a bad choice”.
4 Likes
Feel free to message me with specific Jacobs/IU/Bloomington questions. No experience with trumpet, but I have had a jazz guitarist and 2 vocalists there—one for a Masters.
1 Like
What is his career dream? Dma/teaching? Orchestra / opera pit position? What sort or track record do the students coming out of the studios (assuming he knows assigned teacher) look like in comparison to his own career path hopes? (I’m not requesting you to answer in the forum, just things to consider which I bet he already has.) How does he feel about being in a small midwestern town? (I actually graduated from IU a billion years ago, loved it there but it is isolated compared to East Coast.)
Is there a difference financially? Does he prefer one location over another?
It looks like they’ll both be full tuition. Right now both schools have offers that leave a balance about 10 K a year. Both professors think they can get that changed to full tuition and my son has appeal forms in. To him, there are so many competing pros and cons that he was fully planning on just making the decision on who gives him more money. But that looks like it’s going to be about the same.
1 Like
The ultimate goal is landing a profession Orchestra job. However, his educational goals right now are to get his masters, then DMA while getting as much audition experience as he can. He envisions himself teaching at the collegiate level while hopefully also securing a professional Orchestra/Symphony job.
He and his professors have looked at who’s winning more jobs (IU). He has contacted peers at both schools. He’s asked about gigging opportunities (not great in either area). Without a doubt, he’d rather live in Baltimore. He loves any city and soaks up everything the city has to offer. Indiana is bigger with better facilities and more facilities. The options for ensembles/Orchestras etc at IU, seem almost limitless which he likes. Peabody is more limited and he’s told quintets and quartets are harder to organize there (I’m sure due to studio size).The professor at Indiana is very very kind. The Peabody Professor has a reputation for being very strict with high expectations, but my son doesn’t see that as a deterrent but rather maybe what he wants. It seems like the pros and cons for each school just become a wash. I’m hoping one just starts to “feel right”.
As of this morning, he had decided on IU because they verbally have expressed that they will likely give full tuition on his appeal. Then the Peabody Professor reached out and said he will also talk to admissions and feel that if my son shows Indianas offer they’ll match it. So he may get full tuition at both. However the offers are both so good as is, I’m trying to encourage him not to let that influence his decision. I’m happy to pay a small bit of tuition if it means he’s where he thinks he’s meant to be.
2 Likes
The amazing thing is that he has two such strong options! What a wonderful dilemma. In a perfect solution he would do the masters at one and then DMA at the other!
2 Likes
Try not to worry, I believe things shake out as they should for each kid. My S got into DePaul (voice) and it was absolutely a top choice due to the environment, the teachers with solid reputations who were so warm and personal at the audition (and actually quoted his essay!) and the gorgeous new facility. I will say that we’ve gotten the message that they are having technical issues with getting out full financial awards. My kiddo got a very generous merit award, which he was notified about from the department head, but no info on his need-based aid, since the BlueKey login access was having some major glitch. After inquiring he was told not to ask again for 10 business days while they straightened things out. (!) So it is possible that there are a number of admitted students who are not able to make decisions just yet.
Here’s the reality though, music is made through connections. In the real world, no one cares where you went to school as much as they care about how you play, and what kind of a person you are to work with. Not everyone will have a top level musical career, not even people from Julliard, but everyone can have a fulfilling musical life if they seek it. Your kid sounds awesome and I hope he lands in just the right place!
4 Likes
Okay, thank you! And congrats to your son! So, I am in panic mode now but will try to hold off on full panic mode for 10 business days. Lol.
1 Like
Not relevant now but if finances are an issue, he would want to do a funded MM or MA as part of a doctoral degree.
I assume he has visited both. Sometimes “vibe” is the final factor.
If he flips a coin and gets one of them, how does he feel? Sophisticated method of decision-making! 
I am incredibly thankful for this forum. I also read a strings forum, and the older adults on that forum discourage majoring in music unless you are a prodigy or have amazing opportunities only found in big cities (like precollege programs). Their standard answer is pursue something that will pay the bills and then play music on the side for joy. I read that forum for a dose of reality and this one for encouragement that she will survive. (The other forum did act as a kick in the pants for her. As a 9th grader, she has started marketing herself locally for weddings/events.)
1 Like
I think either one would work for your son listening to what he wants, the finance, etc. I would tell him don’t be worried about a teacher with a tough reputation, my son’s teacher for his MM had this reputation for being prickly, for being impossible to deal with, kids crying after lessons,etc. My wife and I wondered if he would last a couple of weeks, especially since his UG teacher had been very different in the sense that while demanding, he kind of had the kids wanting to play better for him, not in fear. Anyway, it turned into an incredible relationship, one that turned into a true mentor relationship for him and his nascent group, even after graduation…so you never know.
IU is a much bigger music school then Peabody and it is definitely is one of the schools known for being orchestra oriented. That doesn’t mean Peabody isn’t , my S’s friend went to peabody for their MM and just got into the Philadelphia orchestra, just saying the size there lent itself to having more opportunities.
In Baltimore he might have more opportunities, lot of time high level music students can sub in the Baltimore symphony, and the friend of my S’s subbed for philadelphia (it isn’t that far by train from Baltimore to Philadelphia). IU was known for its brass faculty and they had ties to the Chicago symphony (that is in the past, so I can’t confirm what it is like today) and many of there brass students did end up with orchestra jobs.
Environment wise, Peabody is in Baltimore so it is a city area, and you would have relatively easy access to Philadelphia or DC if something came up there (DC has the National Symphony, another possible place to sub I would assume). Bloomington is very much a college town, it is about an hour from Indianapolis via car. It isn’t like there aren’t things there to do, there are restaurants and stores and the like, but it is definitely more its own world (My son has lived there as part of a residency). I think Indianapolis has a symphony, so that may be an opportunity, but for example I would assume it is too far from Chicago to be able to sub there if the opportunity came up.
To be honest, I would tell your son to use his gut feeling.It is hard when you have multiple good choices because you can see pros and cons and feel like wow, they both are great. In the end I would tell him to use his gut, and understand that music teachers have been through the process and they understand, very few of them are going to be angry the student chose someone else. The other thing I will tell him is that my experience with music and music students and choices is that in the end, students tend to work with whatever choice they make and in the end it will work out. Given the position your S is in, it means he already has likely built up the mentality and skill set to be able to learn and navigate music and will do fine with whatever choice he makes IMO. As several threads have been saying, so much of ‘making it in music’ is about the music student and their personality and character traits, and your S or any music student has to trust themselves and their ability, including making decisions:).
Probably won’t make it any easier, these kind of decisions are nerve wracking, but he will do fine, I am pretty sure of that.
One thing I recommend, when he makes his decision, I am a firm believer in sending a thank you note (in this case to both teachers), thanking them for their effort and for the one not chosen, explain that he was grateful for the teachers interest in him and being actively involved in getting him there, and that you hoped that in the future they had the chance to work together and that it was a hard decision.
I would say that teaching at the college level is a goal that is as elusive as an orchestra job, frankly. Unless you are willing to live anywhere.
In a climate where schools are suffering financially, and humanities are being cut at many colleges, many academic jobs are low paying adjunct jobs with no benefits.
I am all for positivity regarding undergrad music. It has value in and of itself regardless of career outcome. I have even felt that about doctoral studies, which can pose further financial challenges without a certain outcome. But have so much intrinsic value.
Enjoy these four years, grow, live life, build skills and experience. There is a chance it will work out for orchestra and/or teaching but there are many fulfilling paths that involve music.
1 Like