classical music...

Parent Cafe
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<p>it seems now, not one of my peers enjoys classical music… what is wrong with us!? perhaps the greatest music that was ever written was was from pre 1900! yet we refuse to listen to these masterpieces, instead shunning them for mindlessly repetitive and generic pop songs… is the state of art deteriorating as well? i was discussing this with my violin teacher, and it seems that the patrons to the arts are gradually aging, and that most of the audience members in symphony performances or recitals are the elderly… it seems music having reached a proverbial peak in the late 60’s is now nothing more than empty background noise… what is the fate of the classics? the virtuosos… the heifetzes, the perlmans? i pose this question to the parents because few of my peers do enjoy this form of music… what will happen with classical music?</p>

<p>and i am not* a parent, just simply a student perplexed as to the state of music…</p>

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<p>One problem that classical music has is that its supporters sometimes come acrosss as haughty, condescending, self-important, and/or unable to empathize with others. Such people denigrate the tastes and musical achievements of others, fail to recognize that other music also requires skill and excellence, and sometimes even go so far as to mock where people such as I live and live happily.</p>

<p>On the other hand, musicians such as Yo-Yo Ma, Itzhak Perlman, and the late Isaac Stern have engaging, considerate personalities, a commitment to the general welfare, and an appreciation for the achievements and lives of other human beings. These people are actually quite popular and beloved, even by those who otherwise have lttle taste for the classics.</p>

<p>Therefore, in my opinion you can help address the problem by sharing and demonstrating the beauty of classical music in your playing and in the other parts of your life.</p>

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<p>A major reason is that music appreciation is not taught in the schools (contrast European education, which places a greater emphasis on “classics” in the general sense). Not that it ever was an emphasis in the US, but what little there was back when I was in school has long since disappeared.</p>

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<p>I think it’s likely (my opinion, no facts to back this up) that appreciating a varied genre of music is related to at least two factors: exposure at home and life experience.</p>

<p>My parents exposed me to a wide variety of music when I was growing up. Even though we were hanging by our fingertips to the designation “middle class”, my parents had invested early in their marriage in a beautiful stereo record player, and we always had music available. I grew up thinking Big Band music was It (with classical being a strong second); my mother would crank the music and jitterbug her way through the housecleaning (my parents also belonged to a dance club). I also have a very clear memory from when I was about 7 of a debate at the dinner table with my older sister about the Beatles and whether they played music. (I spent a good deal of that conversation wondering why we were talking about bugs at the dinner table!). As we got older, my sister and I both saved our money to buy our own record players, but by then we were playing “our” music. I think it was a rite of passage for us; we wanted something that was about our experiences and our understanding of life and the world.</p>

<p>Fast forward to my daughter’s childhood…I sang to her every night at bedtime after her reading time. She survived my croaking (although at about age 4, she was asking if she could sing “her” songs to me…her ear must have been developing already!) We always had cassettes in the car…from Raffi to Judy Collins to Pat Benatar…and my husband played the guitar and sang with her practically every day. For her 16th birthday, we got her season tickets to the opera, she attends the symphony on a regular basis, and is receiving classically-based voice training. But she has her fair share of CDs of alternative rock bands and groups that you couldn’t get me to listen to after the initial polite perusal. But they clearly speak to her in some way, and she just cranks the CD player in her bedroom, while we listen to the pounding bass beat downstairs…just like my parents did with our music.</p>

<p>My experiences probably explain why I think that arts education is so incredibly important…and feeling the way you do, I suspect someday your household will also be filled with music. And every “battle” is won one person at a time…</p>

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<p>so the schools are to blame? (as usual ;)) lol but adad, i have to agree with you, one time my symphony had a guest soloist, who was of some fame actually, and you could barely talk to her… she came across as bitter and made outrageous demands of a semi professional orchestra, demands like a private practice room etc… we were performing at a high school for god sakes!</p>

<p>when i saw the last post and saw raffi, i thought of “family guy” for some reason</p>

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<p>Cujoe, I’m not sure I would use the word “blame” in respect to the schools, but I do think there is a shared responsibility. However, I do think that mine is a minority opinion in many communities. With declining state support of many school districts, school boards are faced with difficult funding decisions every day, and all too often, the arts are the first to go. Why? Well, in part, it’s because arts programs are rarely self-sufficient or money-makers in the same way that athletics are. And it’s easier for a community to rally around a team that brings positive publicity to a community than to a music ensemble (for instance) that quietly achieves its mark in the educational music world. Many people in our area only know about the music programs in the schools because of the marching band. </p>

<p>The perception of the arts as the area of blue-haired old ladies or cultural snobs adds to the problem. Who wants to spend almost $100 on a symphony ticket or a musical theatre production, when you can attend a pro ______(fill in the blank) game with people that are like the folks next door? I’ve met lots of “folks next door” types at the theatre or concert hall, but sadly, perception is reality to most people. </p>

<p>That is one of the values of performers like Josh Groban, The Opera Babes, or Amici Forever…whatever one might say in the negative, their crossover approach to classical (vocal) music has an educational value. How many people claim to hate “classical” music, yet still scurry out to buy Josh Groban concert tickets? I’m not trying to suggest that he is the be-all and end-all in vocal music, but he does break through barriers that many people erect.</p>

<p>The perception as performer as diva (which also extends in a negative way to the audience) is unfortunate and difficult to fight. What many people don’t [care to] realize is that often the “demands” of a “prickly” performer are directly related to the grueling travel schedule of said performer and to the need to protect their instrument. If [when] a pro athlete makes the same sort of demands, the public more readily understands the need because many, in some way, have been involved in sports. I would venture to guess that most men shudder at the mention of “groin pull”; mention concern about nodes, and you generally get baffled expressions.</p>

<p>I don’t know what the answer is…my own daughter attends a public, charter performing arts school precisely because of some of the issues you’ve raised. But it’s interesting to me, that despite the discouragement she sometimes feels over the lack of understanding of her art [or maybe because of], she is considering arts advocacy as a career.</p>

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<p>it’s ironic you’d say josh groban, because my mom is relentlessly telling me to turn down my violin concerto’s but she readily accepts josh groben, he is indeed a bridge! my own school lacks a serious music program, and when i did join the pit orchestra for the musical, i don’t want to come off as pretentious, but i was seated inappropriately, given a lower chair instead because of teacher-student relations, but i digress, the point is that it is true many schools do prefer to rally around sports… (no 1 in the state of jersey for baseball!) rather than an orchestra of sorts</p>

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<p>my daughter took instrumental lessons 3rd & 4th grade the only year they were offered in her school. Some parents continued outside of school, but we didn’t have the money or inclination to go that route.
However she now attends a high school with nationally ranked jazz band and orchestra. All the students benefit from this exposure as not only do the orchestras perform for the community but musicians such as the “Blind boys of Alabama” come to the school to lead workshops and perform.
I don’t follow my sisters maxim that any music written before 1900 “isn’t music”, but we do enjoy classical music. My daughter especially enjoys the soundtracks to LOTR and POTC and last summer had a great time at a classical performance of selections from Lord of the Rings conducted by Howard Shore.</p>

<p>( about the orchestra program)
<a href=“http://www.sbomagazine.com/sbomag/jan03/upclose.html[/url]”>http://www.sbomagazine.com/sbomag/jan03/upclose.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>wow… @emeraldkity4… and yes… the soundtracks for lotr comes from mozarts requiem coincidentally… another valid point that the hobby of music is much more expensive than that of a sport… with the comparison of basketball, unless you go all out, a ball would only cost 10 dollars and uniforms not much more… as opposed to the violin, trumpet, cello, flute… etc. where each instrument can cost upto the price of a midsized car!</p>

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<p>perhaps i have been wrong in my assessment of my peers… as i have discussed the particulars of classical music with 2 members of the cc board itself jono and sethblue!</p>

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<p>Without denigrating any other sort of artistic output, a lot of classical music and meaningful literature requires patience and motivation to appreciate. It’s pretty easy to fill up one’s cultural dance card nowadays without having to resort to either.</p>

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<p>well I have to say literature appreciation increases a lot with context- I skated through the english classes I had in high school- I was disappointed that they weren’t more challenging or thoughtful. Just read a list of books- with out discussion of ideas.
I try and have a balance of reading material that takes more time to get through and that which is more fun or at least is engrossing enough to keep me going through the slower parts.
But one mans cake is another mans medicine. I try not to be a snob about reading material- but I cringe when Oprah slaps another sticker on an old favorite.
Music appreciation can increase with knowledge as well- but I really don’t think that classical music requires any more study to enjoy it than any other kind of music. Music is great because it is universal and crossing not only language barriers- but species.
<a href=“http://www.mulatta.org/[/url]”>http://www.mulatta.org/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>A number of points:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>I myself am a cellist and have been around music my whole life. So perhaps when I say that I’ve never seen that people of my generation don’t enjoy “classical” music, I’m basing it on a highly biased sample of peers. On the other hand, I’ve found that most of my friends who are not at all involved in music still enjoy listening to classical music. They might listen to other stuff as well, but simply because they listen to popular music more often than classical music doesn’t mean that they hate the latter and would never go to a concert. I think people are more open-minded than you give them credit for; it has been my experience that those who don’t know anything about what I do are not repulsed by it but instead curious and eager to find out more.</p></li>
<li><p>ADad has a point about the condescending elitism of classical music. Often I think we don’t do enough to put newcomers at ease—for example, I’ve heard people say they feel stupid when they clap “in the wrong place,” but that’s certainly not their fault if they didn’t know any better! It would be a very easy thing for us to put in a short notice at the top of each programme explaining the concept of movements within a single work, and it would go a long way towards welcoming a crowd of newcomers that feel intimidated and alienated. If we want to build an audience, we should get off our high horses and be a little more patient.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>That being said, I think a lot of classical musicians <i>are</i> making efforts to reach out to new audiences. It’s been my experience that most of the haughtiness exists in the periphery of classical music–amongst the people who want to look educated and important because they go to the symphony. I know very few actual serious musicians or music students who are that off-putting; most of them, in my experience, are just regular people (not big nerds or boring prudish types) who enjoy what they’re doing and are eager to share it with others. And I think that organizations are jumping on this bandwagon too. For example, the Toronto Symphony has an audience-building program in place that allows any student to get tickets to any concert for only $10 each. They’ve realized their audience is aging and they’re doing a lot to make symphony concerts available and accessible for students who can’t afford to pay the $100 ticket price–and these young people who get hooked on it now will be our supporters in 30 years.</p>

<ol>
<li>I definitely think arts education has a lot to do with this issue. As I stated above, in my experience, most of the people who know nothing about classical music are eager to find out about it once they’re exposed to it for the first time. But they do need that first exposure. It just would never occur to most of these people to go hear a string quartet unless someone introduced it to them; and who better to do that than the schools?</li>
</ol>

<p>Also, emeraldkity is right that you can enjoy classical music without having studied it. There’s something beautiful and fascinating about pure sound, and it affects you on some level no matter who you are. That being said, I think your enjoyment of classical music does increase when you’ve been exposed to more of it and have studied it. I mean, I’ve been playing the cello for nearly a decade and a half, and yet even these days my appreciation for it matures and changes as I learn new ways to listen. And I do think that some genres of music–particularly 20th-century music–are harder to appreciate without some sort of music training. You can always enjoy sound and what it does to you; but isn’t it always easier to appreciate something if you understand it in context?</p>

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<p>cujoe, </p>

<p>I guess you’re referring to the parts of LOTR that are not inspired or lifted [sometimes almost directly] from Sibelius’ 3rd symphony and selections from Bruckner? ;-)</p>

<p>My 3 [d,s,s] grew up with classical music on the radio and on records [anyone remember those?] before we could afford to buy CDs. Although I’d taken 5+ years of piano as a child, I didn’t know much about classical music, so I figured we could all learn together. We made a point of finding music to add to our limited home collection, gradually expanding our collection and our tastes as we went along.</p>

<p>At first, we only really liked music from the baroque and early classical periods. D eventually took piano lessons for 7 years; younger son has now had 7 years on the trumpet. He’s played the last 4 years in an area youth symphony, and they have a repertoire that is heavily classical. He’s loved it.</p>

<p>Because of s’s involvement in orchestras, our entire family has learned to appreciate the romantic and later periods in music, with the much larger orchestra sound. We’ve discovered there are modern composers whose music we like! Some of it we still avoid, but we are definitely able to enjoy selections that 10 years ago we would never have listened to beyond the first few minutes. Listening for the trumpet parts gave us a “handle” to become more involved with the music, and we found that with familiarity it grew on us. </p>

<p>We homeschooled our children, so the schools’ lack of music appreciation was not a factor for us. S is very aware of kids who sit with him in orchestra, however, and their interest extends no farther than whatever piece they’re working on for the next concert. These are students who do have strings and other programs in their schools, but perhaps classical music seems too much like a “school” subject to attract their interest outside of the classroom or rehearsal hall. </p>

<p>Many of the orchestra students are very involved and highly motivated, but it is obvious that for some of them, the orchestra is simply a good EC for their college apps, and the music doesn’t say much to them. </p>

<p>My three like many other kinds of music as well: Celtic, Japanese pop, bluegrass, jazz, classic rock and roll, and lots of other kinds that I can’t classify properly. </p>

<p>I do think that my children like classical music now because they grew up with it. They didn’t know that other kids didn’t wake up to the Overture from The Marriage of Figaro. :wink: </p>

<p>They thought that we were normal, and that classical music was a normal part of life. As they got older, they discovered that many kids considered classical music dull or geek-y, but by that point, they liked the music and didn’t care what the other kids thought.</p>

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<p>kitkattail,</p>

<p>The members of our area youth orchestra can get rush tickets for the local symphony concerts for free. All they have to do is show up at the box office at 6 p.m. the night of a concert and ask for a ticket. </p>

<p>For several years, h and I purchased season tickets for us so that we could accompany s to the concerts. Then the symphony business office raised the ticket prices by 57% for our seats, and we had to drop our season tickets. S. still attends without us and comes home to tell us what we missed.</p>

<p>It’s a great perq for the orchestra kids, and they have the opportunity to see/hear some wonderful performances. The symphony did a three-year series in which they played all of Beethoven’s symphonies and piano concertos. </p>

<p>We’ve heard that not many orchestra kids take advantage of the offer. I think this may be a lack of family support. Perhaps some families can’t afford the tickets for parents and are not comfortable leaving a student to attend the performance alone. Some kids may have to work in the evenings. From conversations among the kids, however, it seems that quite a few are just not that interested. Hard to see what could be done to make it more attractive to them, when the tickets are absolutely free.</p>

16

<p>I grew up listening to classical music- but i always preferred rock and r&b.
From what I have observed the kids at D school who perform in orchestra- also enjoy all kinds of music- rap-hip hop-jazz etc.
My 14 yr old daughter likes music from Bhangra to classic punk to fusion jazz, about everything except country- my older daughter has a friend who likes country so she includes that as well in her mixes. One minute I hear Dolly Parton and the next minute Frank Sinatra along with Talking Heads ;)</p>

<p>I think its good for kids to be exposed to different styles and ways of making music- just as I think it is good to be exposed to different foods. My kids eat thai- indian- cuban as well as homestyle vegetarian and even hamburgers. Just depends what the mood is ( and what the cook is willing to make) same with music- depends what I am doing- what kind of music I listen to. I just got an ipod- so I have been busy downloading and playing with different combinations :slight_smile: I don’t know how I got along without it!</p>

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<p>hehe, didn’t even remember what that sounded like… i just checked in after a couple days of inactivity <em>spring break</em> :slight_smile: all the points made are good… especially the part where lhasa mentioned that kids do it for the ec… i guess that makes it difficult for colleges to distinguish :(</p>

<p>i’m just a bit disappointed, because i heard sarah chang was performing at penn last weekend (mendelssohn’s e minor) and i missed it!!! my sister goes there for undergrad, so she could’ve gotten discounted tickets too!</p>

<p>oh if anyone wants classical music dubbed from old lp’s ‘pm’ me… a lot of it isn’t put on cd’s anymore</p>