Classical Studies anyone?

aPod · May 21, 2009, 9:49pm

Hello all,
I’m a student at IU double majoring in Latin and Classical Civilizations. I have a few questions, but I’m also just looking for any perspective or advice on Classics grad school.

<li>I’m starting my junior year in the fall. Would it be a good or bad idea to study for the GRE this summer and take it in the fall? I know most take it either spring semester junior year or fall semester senior year, but I’m (hopefully) going to be studying abroad in Athens spring semester, and I was thinking it might be good to get it out of the way so I don’t have to worry about it when I’m getting other application stuff together senior year. Does that make sense?</li>
<li>I just decided on Classics this last semester. I’ve been taking Latin as my foreign language and am starting Ancient Greek in the fall. Will four semesters of Ancient Greek be enough when paired with eight semesters of Latin? I know grad schools emphasize the languages a lot.</li>
<li>What can I do to increase my chances of admission into the best grad schools for classics? And what ARE the best grad schools for classics? I’ve done research on my own but I’d like to hear other people’s ideas on this. I have to confess I’ve been looking into the Ivy Leagues mostly, for both prestige and location…I want to get the hell out of the midwest.</li>
</ol>

Thanks guys!

Archaeologist · May 21, 2009, 11:01pm

My advice would be to take a practice test and see where you stand. The most logical time to take it would be the summer before your senior year, but I suppose it couldn’t hurt to take it now if you are adequately prepared. Be warned that you probably shouldn’t take it more than once (you won’t want to).

It depends entirely on the program and what you plan to study. That would probably be sufficient for a classical archaeology program, but a top-notch classical philology program would usually expect at least four years of one language and three of the other. Consider applying to at least a couple funded MA programs.

Be aware that a reading knowledge of French and German is at least as important. Don’t underestimate them!

That is a horrible way to go about selecting graduate programs. What you plan to study determines where you should apply. Cincinnati and Penn are the best for Mycenaean studies, for example, whereas UCLA and UT Austin are the best for ancient philosophy. You need to have at least a vague idea of your specialties before you start selecting graduate programs. Once you do, talk to your professors and see what they recommend. Indiana has an excellent Classics program and should be able to point you in the right places.

I recommend the Classical Journal as an excellent starting point. It gives a lot of information (% admitted, specialities, GRE/GPA, funding, etc.) for many top programs.
[The</a> Classical Journal](<a href=“http://www.classicaljournal.org/study_classics.php]The”>http://www.classicaljournal.org/study_classics.php)

roark2 · May 22, 2009, 12:07am

I’m probably applying for Classics graduate programs in the fall, studying for the GRE now, but I’ve really been rethinking my decision these past few days. I’m passionate about Classics, but I’ve heard that it will take six to eight years and the job market is abysmal, meaning you start out taking temporary positions or being an overqualified high school Latin teacher. Even if you get a tenure track position, a graduate student told me that about one in five don’t receive tenure. And of course, as in the humanities in general, you don’t get paid very much (and Classics is definitely down there). A simple google search will tell you that Classicists often lament their impending doom (Who Killed Homer?, Classics: A Discipline and Profession in Crisis?).

So are you sure you want to do this? Sorry if this post sounded bitter, but I know that my professors misled me to hold some hope for the field, and I’m only finding out now (slowly, painfully) that it’s a sinking ship, that the retiring baby boomers mean the end of positions altogether, and not the openings of new ones.

aPod · May 22, 2009, 1:21am

I’m more interested in philology… what should I do then? take a whole extra year here at IU to fulfill the Greek requirement? :/

Should I have both? I was planning on taking French for reading next summer, so I should take German as well? I know at least with some programs they let you take a class for one of those languages your first year, and then you have to pass a proficiency test.

roark2 - I honestly can’t think of anything else I really want to do, besides be a rock star Both my uncle and grandfather are classics profs, and they love it. And they both make enough to travel a lot… if I wanted to be rich I’d go to law school or would have stuck with my original pre-med track. I just want a modest life where I’m doing something I love. I’m very passionate about the field, so shouldn’t I do what I can to keep it alive if it is indeed dying? and I don’t think the entire field will disappear in eight years…

blukorea · May 22, 2009, 3:34am

I’m not a classicist but work on a field closely related to it.

“Should I have both? I was planning on taking French for reading next summer, so I should take German as well? I know at least with some programs they let you take a class for one of those languages your first year, and then you have to pass a proficiency test.”
You should aim at being fairly proficient in one language and getting started on the other. I had two semesters in both French and German when I applied, but I’m sure some people more, some less.

“I’m probably applying for Classics graduate programs in the fall, studying for the GRE now, but I’ve really been rethinking my decision these past few days. I’m passionate about Classics, but I’ve heard that it will take six to eight years and the job market is abysmal, meaning you start out taking temporary positions or being an overqualified high school Latin teacher. Even if you get a tenure track position, a graduate student told me that about one in five don’t receive tenure. And of course, as in the humanities in general, you don’t get paid very much (and Classics is definitely down there). A simple google search will tell you that Classicists often lament their impending doom (Who Killed Homer?, Classics: A Discipline and Profession in Crisis?).”
This, unfortunately, seems to be the trend. Classical studies is perhaps a vestige of the old education system which gave the origins/canons of the Western Civilization the central emphasis. One can easily see how this notion becomes problematic in the post-modern age. In all likelihood, the Classics job market will shrink in the next fifty years or so. But if you like it and want to pursue it, no one’s stopping ya.

“2. I just decided on Classics this last semester. I’ve been taking Latin as my foreign language and am starting Ancient Greek in the fall. Will four semesters of Ancient Greek be enough when paired with eight semesters of Latin? I know grad schools emphasize the languages a lot.”
That does not sound ideal, especially with the rising competition among the extremely qualified applicant pool nowadays. I’d personally shoot for 4/3 (years), as Archaeologist pointed out, if you want to do the philology track.

“3. What can I do to increase my chances of admission into the best grad schools for classics? And what ARE the best grad schools for classics? I’ve done research on my own but I’d like to hear other people’s ideas on this. I have to confess I’ve been looking into the Ivy Leagues mostly, for both prestige and location…I want to get the hell out of the midwest.”
The NRC ranking is the only ranking available for the field of Classics. It’s extremely ancient so don’t give it too much credit: [NRC</a> Rankings in Classics](<a href=“http://www.stat.tamu.edu/~jnewton/nrc_rankings/area2.html]NRC”>NRC Rankings in Classics).

It is important to look for places that fit your interests. The best way to go about doing this is to surf around different departmental homepages and look for faculty profiles. This presupposes that you already have a fairly good idea about what you would like to specialize in. But often students discover their interests while they are shopping for grad schools to apply.

It’s entirely fine to aspire to prestigious programs, especially given the condition of the job market. I’d say aim high, give it your best go, if you fail, then consider an alternative career path. In my world prestigious Classics programs are Princeton, Brown, Berkeley, Chicago, Michigan, Stanford, Penn, and UNC.

Philology is well-represented in most top philology programs.

Archaeologist · May 22, 2009, 12:54pm

Yes, you should. Remember that competition for top programs is FIERCE. To give you some idea, last year Yale admitted 4 of 70 applicants, and Princeton admitted 9 of 110. Brown had roughly 100 applicants this year, invited only 15 to visit, and only chose 5 of those. You need to be as prepared as possible to get a leg up on the other applicants.

As I said before, consider applying to at least a couple funded MA programs (e.g. Arizona, FSU, Tufts) in addition to PhD programs. Your background would be sufficient.

WilliamC · May 22, 2009, 3:16pm

Looks like everyone has pretty well covered the basics. It absolutely cannot be overemphasised how competitive the top Classics programs are. Those 13 admits mentioned by Archaeologist likely represent 8 or 9 funded spots being offered to 9 or 10 actual individuals.

Another data point - last year a member of the U Chicago adcom mentioned on a Classics list-serve that their first cut was to toss any applicant who lacked one of the modern languages. Talk to your professors about it, but when I asked, it was universally felt German carried more weight in applications than French. (Incidentally, your writing sample should show not just your ability in one or both ancient languages, but also the ability to engage with scholarship in one or both modern languages.)

Be prepared to apply to 8-10 programs, knowing that everybody applies to the same top bunch (pretty much as blukorea listed). Be sure to include at least two or three MA programs - I’d add Vanderbilt (the one in TN) to the list as an “up and comer”. WHile you’ll be applying mainly to PhD programs, always keep in the back of your mind the fact that you can use a “lesser” PhD program like an MA-feeder - as springboard to a “better” or more suitable program.

If you strike out (or don’t get anything with funding) plan to do a post-bac year. There are a number of good ones including the one I took (and highly reccomend) at U Penn:

[Classical</a> Studies Program at The University of Pennsylvania](<a href=“http://www.sas.upenn.edu/lps/postbac/classics]Classical”>http://www.sas.upenn.edu/lps/postbac/classics)

Although admission is not particularly competitive (regardless of what they say on the website) it does tend to wash people out - last fall the program started with over 50 students and ended up with fewer than 20.

Good Luck!

dirkadom · November 7, 2010, 9:04pm

If you want to teach classics in High School, it is advisible to be married with a rich spouse, or be independently wealthy. This economic fact is true, if you truly want to have access to the best teachers which abound in the higly rated universities but are few and limited in most other colleges.

The current cost of such an eduction is simply incompatible with the revenue to be earned in public schools, except for a few schools in the high income area. Even these schools are suspect in keeping a latin or greek program, given the current economic environment where the public is disturbed with paying high taxes for students who cannot read and write on an elevated level. I have a written diatribe accusing the state of new jersey of teaching illiteracy in that they have relegated grammar and comprehension to a secondary level, their defense being the curriculum was written by experts. I did not see these experts on the reading list for AP Latin, but I did see some of my professors on the list who drummed into me the fact that you had to understand and justify each word in a sentence, if you expected to be believed. No hum drum bs allowed!

You will also find yourself being observed and evaluated by pedestrian individuals with degrees in physical education, education, or soft sciences, educators who have not a clue about what you teach in a latin or greek class. These low level educators will be more concerned with education methadology, best described as political bs, student learning style and a host of issues best addressed in elementary school but are useless for higher level learning.

However, if your dedication to the true labor in studying classics, native intelligency being not readily transferible to translating greek and latin, is transferible to other careers in business, it is a great major. Be a lawyer, especially a contract or trial lawyer, where accuracy and persuasion are paramount, or obtain a secondary major in business, and you will have numerous opportunity to understand how the economy works or why people are so easily misled and accept with nary a whimper continuous misrepresentation of facts.

High school classics teaching also tends to be dominated by the female genus, presumably due to the history of the low value placed on education in the past, where women were treated as indentured slaves and paid accordingly. One school I visited had 17 foreign language teachers, all women, and all experts on language, or so they claimed. Ego is not limited to males, you know. Be prepared for constant cat fights if you choose to enter such a teaching position.

If you are comfortable with such status described above, then definitely go into teaching latin and greek in public schools. Do not take with much authority the advise of the current college staff advisors who have never been in the real world, and would not recognize such business terms as “maximu uncertainty”, “the medium”, “equty”, “asset”, “contingent liability”, all classical words but used in a different context than in literature.

ticklemepink · November 8, 2010, 8:43am

That post was written over a year ago… doubt the poster’s looking back.

Classical Studies anyone?

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