Climate change caused fall of ancient civilizations?

[barrons]

<p>Hmmmmmmmmm. Well before modern industry and use of oil in any great quantity.</p>

<p>[news:</a> UW-led study says climate shift may have doomed ancient empires](<a href=“captimes.com | The Capital Times: Madison WI News”>captimes.com | The Capital Times: Madison WI News)</p>

[LongPrime]

<p>another theory, is that all that ship building in the area depleted the forests and thus changed the climate.</p>

<p>Did any one think that the sailing ships the Greeks, Romans, Carthage, Troy, China’s Treasure Fleet, Spanish and English Fleets came from renewable forests?</p>

<p>[The</a> Unending Frontier: An … - Google Book Search](<a href=“The Unending Frontier: An Environmental History of the Early Modern World - John F. Richards - Google Books”>The Unending Frontier: An Environmental History of the Early Modern World - John F. Richards - Google Books)</p>

[garland]

<p>Wow, there was shifts in climate before? Really? Someone tell all the climatologists! I"m sure this will be huge news to them.</p>

<p>Elizabeth Kolbert, in her excellent book on climate change, Field Notes from a Catastrophe, has some fascinating chapters on localized climate changes in past history.</p>

[emeraldkity4]

<p>On the other hand- the fact that civilizations last about 1000 years may have more to do with how long it takes us to destroy topsoil & food production.</p>

<p>[Inland</a> Northwest dust bowl: Half the topsoil of the Palouse is gone](<a href=“http://crosscut.com/2007/05/14/agriculture/3052/]Inland”>http://crosscut.com/2007/05/14/agriculture/3052/)</p>

<p>

Like the wide-open plains of the Midwest, the rolling hills of the Eastern Washington presented an ideal place for tractors that allowed farmers to work far more land than trailing behind an ox or horse. The economic and social trends that drove mechanization made it easier to plow more intensively and frequently, leaving bare ground vulnerable to wind and rain for much of the year. And as farms mechanized, soil conservation practices such as terracing, contour plowing, hedgerows, and trees planted for windbreaks became obstacles to maneuvering large machinery that could not follow tight turns on sloping land. So even in the aftermath of the agricultural debacle of the Dust Bowl, public and governmental awareness slowed but did not curtail soil loss in the Palouse. The pace of soil erosion was slow enough not to make headlines, yet fast enough to carry off a third to half of its rich topsoil in under a century.

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<p>[Conquest</a> of the Land Through 7,000 Years | NRCS](<a href=“http://www.nrcs.usda.gov/technical/ecs/agecol/conquest.html]Conquest”>http://www.nrcs.usda.gov/technical/ecs/agecol/conquest.html)

Erosion of Civilizations</p>

<p>Several writers have documented the decline of civilizations throughout history in parallel with the destruction of their soil. Their stories are stark reminders not to take soil and soil stewardship for granted.</p>

<p>Below are some accounts of the links between soil erosion and the strength of societies.</p>

<p>Conquest of the Land Through 7,000 Years. 1999. W.C. Lowdermilk. USDA Agricultural Information Bulletin No. 99. Originally issued in 1953, this publication is based on studies Lowdermilk made in 1938 and 1939. For more, go to Conquest of the Land.</p>

<p>Topsoil and civilization. 1974. Vernon Gill Carter and Tom Dale. rev. ed. Norman, University of Oklahoma Press. A more thorough discussion of man’s relationship to topsoil. Originally published in 1955.</p>

<p>Soil and civilization. 1976. Edward Hyams. New York: Harper & Row. Originally published in 1952, this is an account of the relationship between people and soil. Each has shaped the other. Hyams describes people as “parasites” on the soil, noting that some soils/hosts remain healthy despite the parasites.</p>

<p>Shifting ground: the changing agricultural soils of China and Indonesia. 2000. Peter H. Lindert. Cambridge, MA: MIT Press. The author evaluates environmental concerns about soil degradation in two very large countries - China and Indonesia - where anecdotal evidence has suggested serious problems.</p>

<p>Dirt: The Erosion of Civilizations. 2007. David R. Montgomery. University of California Press. Dirt, soil, call it what you want–it’s everywhere we go. It is the root of our existence, supporting our feet, our farms, our cities. This fascinating yet disquieting book finds, however, that we are running out of dirt, and it’s no laughing matter. An engaging natural and cultural history of soil that sweeps from ancient civilizations to modern times, Dirt: The Erosion of Civilizations explores the compelling idea that we are–and have long been–using up Earth’s soil.

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[scansmom]

<p>Yep, MANY civilizations have collapsed in the past (probably some we don’t even know about!), and from a variety of causes, both natural and man-made. This study merely adds additional scientific evidence to the theory that there were “abrupt climate changes” at the same time as the demise of these 2 particular civilizations. </p>

<p>For further support of climate change’s effects of past civilizataions, you might also want to look at:</p>

<p>-The Winds of Change: Climate, Weather, and the Destruction of Civilization, by Eugene Linden</p>

<p>-The Great Warming: Climate Change and the Rise and Fall of Civilizations, by Brian Fang</p>

<p>-“Climate and the Collapse of Maya Civilization” by Gerald Huag et al, in Science, March 2003</p>