<p>With a revote in Florida and Michigan, HRC would most likely have the popular vote. And even if they’re not recounted–we’ll know–and those states will be important in the actual elections. She’s also won every big state and is much better supported in the swing states. For those of you who say this nomination process is over, it’s definitely not. </p>
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<p>Because there are no Asian candidates?</p>
<p>It’s definitely annoying that so many people (college students, in particular) have bought into the Obama’s “hope”/“yes we can” campaign. It’s a good strategy in that it’s able to mobilize a huge chunk of the population, but it’s misguided because one could argue that Clinton also runs on “hope,” just implicitly (I mean duh, isn’t it obvious that both candidates want “change”?). It’s strikingly reminiscent of Karl Rove’s strategy to mobilize the Religious Right.</p>
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<p>It’s pretty obvious that you haven’t listened to a single thing I’ve said, LaxAttack. I told you why Obama is currently enjoying overwhelming black support, and why it was not so in the beginning of his run. Yes, his race is a plus in the minds of most black voters. His candidacy is historical, and engenders a great deal of excitement and pride. But, even as a Democrat, his race alone would not amount to the be all and end all. </p>
<p>It is true that if Obama were white, Hillary Clinton would still most likely be getting the lion’s share of black support. I’ve already told you why, heretofore, the Clintons were considered the gold standard. But since Obama seems to embody everything black folks like about the Clintons and he happens to be black, and people were insulted by Bill’s pre-South Carolina remarks, and he’s engendered unheard off excitement in the rest of the country, he’s earned tremendous black support.</p>
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<p>Obama didn’t have black support in early primaries? Are you kidding me…look at the returns and get back to me.</p>
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<p>Yes, I’m sure that unheard of excitement he generated in red states will help him out. He’s really gonna take the deep south with all that unheard of excitement. Maybe snagging the new england states will put him over the top, they’ve been where elections were decided these past couple of cycles. Too bad he can’t generate the same excitement in states that matter (OH, MI, PA, FL, MO)</p>
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Because there are no Asian candidates?**</p>
<p>And Because many Asians won’t support a black candidate?</p>
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<p>HAHA! I love how you argue that Obama didn’t get the black vote because he’s black yet have no problem saying asians don’t vote for him because he’s black. I guess skin color only applies when it’s in line with your argument huh?</p>
<p>poetsheart, I sure am. I really liked Biden and Richardson. But I felt that Hillary, even with her high negatives and the backing of her slick husband, would be the nominee. After Bill’s comments in South Carolina, I am done with the Clintons. I will not even hold my nose to vote for her if she is the nominee. But living in Texas my vote would not count (Red State) in the General Election unless it is Obama at the top of the ticket.</p>
<p>Iowa was literally the first state to Hold its Caucus/Primary. Prior to this, blacks assumed Obama couldn’t win, especially not in such a predominantly white state. The fact that he did shocked a lot of black folks into taking a hard look at Obama. Yes, this occurred early in the game, but had he not put up such a stunningly strong showing in Iowa, and soon after in other states with large white populations, black people would still be largely behind Clinton—not this black person, but many if not most.</p>
<p>^^ Surely you have something to back up what you’re saying right poetsheart? I mean, something to refute the fact that he’s gotten the black vote at unheard of levels in the primary? Or do you expect me to just take your word that this black vote happened to appear out of nowhere after iowa?</p>
<p>EDIT: I’m sure it also has to do with the fact that nobody knew who Obama was before Iowa. What did he say in Iowa that all of a sudden blacks flocked to him? Once he had a chance in hell, once people knew who he was, the black vote rushed to him.</p>
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<p>Listen carefully: His. race. alone. would. not. have. cut. the. mustard. It’s. the. bonus.</p>
<p>^^Listen carefully: I know his race alone would not have cut the mustard, however it’s far more than a bonus. It’s what’s gotten him this far. If he was a white guy Clinton would have this thing already.</p>
<p>I’ve already given you anedotal evidence, as well as the opinions of many of the talking heads at the time, Lax. But believe what you want. I really don’t give a rat’s ass.</p>
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<p>No Lax. You intimated that the only reason why black folks vote for Obama is because he’s black—no other reason. I refuted you with sound examples of why that is not so. No doubt about it, his race does come into play—it’s seen as the icing on the cake. But there are lots of scenarios under which his race and a quarter couldn’t buy him a cup of coffee, much less the support of many black folks.</p>
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<p>That, we can agree on. But for a lot of blacks (not me, but a lot), Obama is like Clinton, only dipped in chocolate—that’s the bonus.</p>
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<p>I hope you see the irony in this.</p>
<p>No, I don’t. I’m a member of the black community, and I’ve heard lots of blacks express that opinion (not just the two I spoke of earlier). And the talking heads were also speculating on the same apparent phenomenon. As I said earlier, think what you want.:rolleyes:</p>
<p>Well, let’s look at how Obama got his national start…keynote speaker at the DNC in 04. He was selected because he was young and black. Had Obama never given the keynote, he would not be in the arena right now. The same would be said about Edwards in 00. And Geraldine Ferraro many moons ago also fell in this category…she even stated it (poorly) that if she was not a woman she would not have been picked as VEEP for Mondale.</p>
<p>There is nothing wrong about saying that if he wasn’t black, because there is a piece of truth to it. When Edwards ran in 04, the number 1 thing going against him was he had not been a sen. long enough, but ran b/c he got the spotlight on him from his keynote. Had Obama never been a keynote he would never had the opportunity to run right now!</p>
<p>You could argue the inverse: Obama got the keynote <em>because</em> he was a brilliant politician and the Democrats wanted to put the spotlight on him to see how he would play in a national setting. </p>
<p>Poetsheart: for many science-oriented people, the words “anecdotal evidence” are an oxymoron, because anecdotes are by definition not evidence. </p>
<p>As “white folk,” I have observed some of the upper-middle class black women in our neighborhood supporting Hillary–because she’s a woman.</p>
<p>It’s a wonderful dilemma to have, isn’t it? Come November, we Democrats will have either the first black man on the ballot OR the first woman.</p>
<p>So if Obama got it because he was black, and Ferraro because she was a woman, why did Edwards get it? Maybe, just Maybe, they all got it because they deserved it.</p>