I know I am being repetitive and beating a dead horse…but I do worry that those currently in this admissions cycle or those new to the process, will read this thread and get even more uptight thinking this is something they must do because others are doing it and so on. I think if I were a parent in this cycle and reading all this, I might start to wonder and fret a bit that my kid didn’t have these opportunities that others were having, getting face time with BFA faculty and such. And I really want them to know (I know I said this already!!) that colleges really are looking for talent and will know it when they see it in the audition room, even if they never met the kid before or the kid had less training of some sort or less opportunities. Applicants come from a range of backgrounds and in the end, talent plays a big part in the audition room. Try to keep that in mind!!!
Sharing a personal experience as a parent of a BFA in MT applicant from ten years ago (can it be that long ago?? yikes)…I will be the first to admit that my D had been immersed in MT since preschool and it was a passion that was a huge part of her life from then up through to the college audition process. She had voice and music training and lots of dance training, but hardly any acting training. Our school did not have a drama program/classes (it did put on productions) and our community had no acting classes. What D knew about acting mostly came from doing it, but not formal training in it. She had been in about 45 productions prior to college (from school, camp, community theater, college theater, regional theater, to professional theater), but just not acting lessons/classes. She attended theater camp for many summers out of state. Also, our state did not have performing arts high schools (I used to think, oh my, my D will be up against these kids who went to performing arts high schools!). She did get private monologue lessons for about 5 months for college auditions. But that was her only formal acting training. Also, she started college auditions just two months after turning 16 and so hadn’t had as many years to develop as most applicants (possibly making it even longer odds). Again, she had sufficient voice and dance training, just not acting. For one thing, her acceptances outweighed her rejections. But what I was thinking about the most for this post is what happened for her at CMU. I recall after attending that audition, thinking to myself, geez, all this money to travel to CMU and to learn that 1200 auditioned and they took 10 for MT that year and only 3 or 4 girls (!) and 18 for Acting and a smaller number of girls than boys that year. That’s a very low acceptance rate! As many already know, CMU only accepts the number of slots available (no extras) and if somebody doesn’t take the offer, CMU has a very short Priority Waitlist. My D was on this short Priority Waitlist for ACTING! (Yes, I realize this is not the same as being accepted!) But I saw it as an affirmation of being from the middle of nowhere, having not gone to CMU pre-college or having never met any faculty from CMU prior to auditions, and having had no formal acting training except her monologue prep for her college audition…and to be considered for acting at CMU. I hardly could believe it. I recall the audition being very long and her seeing multiple faculty and doing four monologues. So, I am just sharing that they really do consider anyone and not just those they already know or have met and not just those who did extensive acting training. It can truly come down to your audition. Keep that in mind and try not to worry that this one or that one had this or that opportunity. I think everyone who auditions will be considered and has a chance if they have the talent the school is seeking.
No worries, Soozievt, if anything I think this thread points out that familiarity with the faculty can potentially hurt as often as it can help. But getting coaching from SOMEONE in the field who can give honest and constructive feedback seems to universally be seen as a good idea.
I totally agree, Calliene, that some sort of coaching prep/lessons/training for college auditions is important and most who succeed at admission to BFA programs have prepared in some fashion with some sort of assistance. My own kid prepped with assistance and all of my advisees do as well. I highly recommend it.
And yes, coaching with faculty can potentially hurt or help, as discussed on this thread. If they love what they see when coaching you, yes, you got more face time…can’t hurt. If they were not so enthused in coaching you, they already know that before you enter the audition room. So, it can cut both ways.
I know many actors who are extremely successful (by which I mean working consistently with no need for other employment) without a single acting class or coaching session. Native gifts are real and so is good fortune.
I totally agree that “native gifts” help immensely in this field, as does pure luck or good fortune…by leaps and bounds!! Still, training helps. After all, this is a college admissions forum and most of us parents are here because we are going to be paying (or already paid or are still paying off!) mucho bucks for our kids to get training to hone their skills, even if they have natural talents and gifts. (Let’s assume, therefore, that training can only help, not hurt, even if you can “make it” without any training) After that, good luck is also going to play a part in getting cast out in the real world!
Certainly, much training will help an artist to grow. Some will not, either because the artist does not begin with some grace, sense of pitch, and insight into human behavior OR because the training itself is moving the student away from authenticity. Seeking quality training, especially if you’re going to drop a mountain of cash, is the best strategy. Sorting out what the actual qualities are that make for good training is a bit tricky. In my opinion, the proviso that “training can only help, not hurt” does not always apply.
vocal1046…I wasn’t just speaking of training prior to college. But surely you must believe in the concept of training if you are looking to send your child to a BFA in MT program, right? It’s a college education but it is full of artistic training. And you are obviously choosing colleges which you hope offer very good training. Same with anyone you might pick to help you train prior to the college years. I would not suggest anyone attempt BFA in MT admissions without any type of classes, lessons, or training. I’d say the same to an applicant to a BM program for cello. So, I’m not saying that all training is equally effective, but that having some training, hopefully of the quality sort, can only help, not hurt. And I assume that is why most of us here are willing to pay lotsa mulah to send our kids to BFA in MT programs, rather than just hit the pavement in NYC to audition right out of high school, even though it IS possible to “make it” in MT without training and without a college program. We all must see the value in this training or we would not be here. I submit that it can help. It is no guarantee of success, but the odds are that a trained singer/actor/dancer is going to be better prepared to making the rounds in NYC (or elsewhere) with some training under their belt.
What college coach would want it on his/her record that someone they coached didn’t get in to their college. Seems like they would do whatever they could to get them admitted.
^^^I’m not sure I agree. A coach can’t really get someone admitted to a college who is otherwise not qualified. A coach coaches all sorts of applicants and helps them present themselves in the best possible light. It doesn’t mean that they can take just any kid and make them be qualified to get into ANY school. I’m not an audition coach. But I am a college counselor and I don’t expect my clients to get into every school. Their acceptances and rejections are not a reflection of me. I guide them to be the best they can be and to present who they are in the best possible way. That doesn’t mean they will be qualified (or talented) enough for any school they wish to attend. Therefore, if I were a college faculty member who coached a kid for MT college auditions, it wouldn’t mean I think the kid is good enough for my particular program, but that I helped him/her to be the best he/she can be, and to be well prepared, to get into programs most appropriate for that kid’s level/qualifications, etc. Teachers, mentors, coaches, counselors, etc. guide students. They can’t make a student be someone they are not.
And, remember, that it’s not just talent alone. It’s about what the program needs that particular year–looks, voice type, etc. The absolute best triple threat may not be the type that the program needs that year and therefore won’t get in. That’s not a reflection on the coach at all.
@soozievt, my child took one on one vocal lessons (as in assistance with song choices as well as lessons) from someone who informed us personally (so this isn’t hearsay) that they were part of the panel of judges for the MT program at UArts.
UArts was on the original list but eventually got eliminated once other schools’ acceptances, that were higher on the list, started coming in.
What I meant @soozievt was that if the student is in the audition room and that auditor has coached them you can bet they are going to recommend they are admitted based on audition. I know they have no control over other aspects of the admissions process.
I understood what you meant, but I still disagree. If the auditor coached someone because the parents hired him/her to do so, the auditor tried to prep the student and help him/her to be the best he/she could be. That doesn’t mean the coach thinks the student is right (or good enough) for their own program. They take their clients and guide and coach them. That doesn’t mean they can make them qualified for just any program, including their own. Likewise, I work with students and I can’t make them good enough for any place they may wish to attend and if I were the gatekeeper at that place, I may not think they are qualified enough either. The school might be a reach for that particular student.
In terms of UArts…here is an example…one of my former talented clients attended the UArts pre-college program and worked with the BFA faculty. They seemed to like him and one of the acting faculty members wrote a glowing artistic rec for the student’s college admissions process. The student auditioned for UArts’ BFA in Acting program and was rejected. The student landed at NYU/Tisch.
Again, a coach, teacher, mentor, or counselor guides a student to be the best he/she can be, but can’t necessarily get them into a certain college or program, even if it is their own program. They work with students who engage their services. It doesn’t mean they can turn the student into being qualified for their own program. They can help the student prepare and be a good candidate who will get into some programs, but not all, and not necessarily their own.
Look at all the faculty and department heads who are apparently leading audition workshops and in some cases, individualized coaching of applicants…do you think they want to admit all the students with whom they have worked? I doubt it. They will likely meet some students this way who they really do think would be right and eligible for their own program, and others that they help to prep who will be right for other programs, but not theirs.
I believe in all of my students and guide them. I don’t believe they should be accepted at every school because I think certain schools are long shots for them. I’m sure audition coaches feel the same. Still, they want to help and guide and coach the student to do their best with auditions and get into schools that are appropriate for their particular skill set and talent.
@bisouu there is simply no way an auditor is going to recommend admission of a student simply because they have coached them. No matter how extensive that coaching may have been. That’s just not true. These auditors coach so many prospective students: at summer programs, at MasterClasses, one on one, some through Stagelighter. There would be far too many to admit. One cannot “purchase” admission to a program for the price of a coaching or two.
I used to be a public school teacher. I also was a college teacher at many colleges. I am now a college counselor. We get the students we get. We help them because that is our job. We believe in them. It doesn’t mean we think each one is who we would pick if we were admitting them for something. For instance, in my current line of work as a college counselor, I help and guide every student and I want the best for them. I help them show themselves in the best possible light! But frankly, I have had some students who I would not want to admit if I were the gatekeeper! For example, I have had students who are lazy, who never make deadlines, who can’t follow directions, and other major weaknesses. I don’t think they are qualified for just any school and so help guide them to appropriate placements for them. It differs from student to student. They are not all the same. As much as I believe in all of them and do my best to help all of them, they don’t all belong at the same schools. The qualifications of my clients, including their talent, has varied quite significantly over the years. I have worked with top academic and artistic talent and low academic and artistic talent students. I am devoted to them all. Would I accept them all if I were on the faculty at a particular program? Nope.
I enjoy guiding each student to the best fit college for THEM. That is my job. I can’t get a student into any program they wish to attend. And if I were on the other side of the admissions table, I would not necessarily accept every student with whom I had worked.
@soozievt - I believe another of the reasons college faculty coach for recruitment purposes, even though they know they will have many more candidates than they need is because they see the value of seeing prospective kids doing their thing for longer than 32 bars in a more “real” and “relaxed” environment. To see what the kids are like outside of the audition room, and how they present themselves later when it really counts. One head I heard speak to a group of prospective parents and students said that while talent is crucial, so is personality and chemistry with peers and staff. Like it or not, “likeability” is also a factor some consider. (I’ve heard this from composers, casting agents, directors, & college staff) After all, they have to work these kids in close quarters for extended periods of time! I also I believe that working summer intensives and doing master classes gives heads/staff of college programs the opportunity to see kids interacting with each other and seeing what these kids do with feedback given to them. This particular “head” is also known for asking current university students for feedback regarding potential candidates they have met at intensives.Their feedback, I’ve been told, is taken very seriously.
Furthermore, this whole Performing Arts business (pre-college, during college, post-college) revolves around exposure, continuous training, audition etiquette, networking, making and nurturing professional connections, etc… The earlier students learn these skills, the better off they are. Master classes and summer intensives give them to opportunity to begin learning these skills and making these connections earlier rather than later… Why would we expect one standard prior to college and another post college? Thinking “in principle” is one thing. Being realistic is another.
All that being said, I do agree wholeheartedly that anyone can be successful at college auditions coming from anywhere and without having ever met faculty at these BFA programs prior to your official audition. There are many roads to the same destination. Everyone should take the one that appeals most to them.
addicted2MT…I totally agree with your post 97! These faculty members get to see way more about a student than in the few minutes of the college audition. They see other important factors about the student!! When my kid was auditioning, I used to wonder how these auditors are going to know much about her beyond her singing, acting, dance and stage presence. They won’t know what she is like to work with which seems mighty important! So, yes, these college faculty who do coaching and workshops, are gaining more insight about the kids they see at these things than kids like mine who meet them for the first time in the audition room. Surely, there are benefits to both sides in many ways by this enterprise.
And yes, your point that in the post college phase of one’s career, casting agents get to know various actors and so this helps later when that actor is before them in the audition room. Though that is not quite the same as having “coached” them privately first.
Still, I somewhat agree with bisouu that there is some conflict of interest to be coaching the very students whom you are going to sit on the audition panel for in terms of admissions to your program. But I guess it is what it is!
Most of these programs, especially the top programs, require multiple faculty members to consider someone’s application before accepting them or denying them admission. One faculty member can be a huge fan of a particular student, yet the rest of the decision makers are not. Or they may all be fans but decide they need a short alto instead of a tall soprano no matter how talented the soprano is. So it is possible that a faculty member can coach someone, feel strongly that they would do well in their program, and that student still not be accepted for a variety of reasons.