On the digital version of the test, there are typically 8-10 vocab in context words. Given there are only 54 questions, I think that is reasonably substantial. The linear version of the test has at least 12 words per test out of 66 questions. The key is “in context.” Vocab seems important to the test makers. They clearly expect students to use context to derive meaning. We discuss using prefixes as clues, which can be useful in their academic reading anyway.
Yes I know there is selection bias but the numbers were not that different for students taking these exams. I think AP EU History was taken by about 100k students while AP Physics 1 was about 160k. Both of these are far smaller numbers than US History which is closer to 500k. A lot of schools don’t offer either AP EU History or AP Physics 1. Both of these would be in more selective schools where you would find courses like AP Calculus BC etc. Usually students will take Physics after finding interest in Chemistry and the same likely with EU History being taken after US or World History so neither of these subjects are likely to be the student’s first exposure to an AP exam either in humanities or science. A lot of schools even offer a Conceptual Physics course that students would normally take before taking Physics I and they still find the AP exam extremely difficult.
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Nobody is arguing causation. Many think that somehow getting rid of SATs all of a sudden let a ton of low SAT kids into top UCs. Yet other things (GPA, SAT scores, DE grades, extracurriculars) are still selecting the same kids at some UCs who often have the top SAT scores.
Transfer admissions is very different though.
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Over the years, we had to assure our chemical engineering major kid that verbal skills (and other non-STEM stuff) would still be very important and valuable for life and in an engineering career. Though he was skeptical for a while, I think he gets it now.
He’s studying abroad this semester and is taking a bunch of humanities classes. Recently he texted and said “humanities are harder than engineering”. And he’s even a really good reader/writer. Doesn’t make the thinky work easy, though. I imagine he’d be miserable if he struggled more with reading/writing.
We were really hoping he wouldn’t turn out to be one of those stem people with a superiority complex and his comments over the last few years indicate he’s not at all, phew.
We don’t have a ton of money and quality for aid at most schools, and he was able to focus on learning what he wanted only because we’re both professors so we value that, and he because wanted a stem career. Only half of his friends are attending college; the rest work full-time.
Our younger kid will be getting a full time job as soon as he finishes HS since he doesn’t feel college is the right option for him at this point. He already works part time and we mandate 80% of his money gets saved. I don’t know how much of his decision is due to the economic pressure that he certainly feels. At one point he was talking about a degree in interior design, and we were planning on holding some delicate discussions about that before he pivoted away from college.
I’ll be curious to see how many of his friends opt for college. Only 1 or 2 kids from their HS (which is top 20 in the state) end up at a top 20 college each year, and nearly everyone ends up at an in-state public. I suspect the strongest students apply only to in-state publics and mega-reaches (that they don’t get into). I haven’t noticed any difference in the college destination trends since the pandemic. But I’m sure that the classroom pandemic plights have affected them all even if it’s not showing up in their college admissions.
I do wish that all the kids in the US could focus on learning for learning’s sake and not have to worry so much about college admissions or employability. I believe in that myself, SO much. But it seems like that’s a privilege increasingly reserved for those with higher wealth. Sigh. And is not something we can afford to do without a lot of stress and scheming, even in our highly educated family.
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10/54 or 12/66 is a lot lower percentage of vocabulary than the old SAT verbal sections that had mostly vocabulary with a few reading comprehension questions thrown in.
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This may be the case in other places, but in our suburban public school, AP Physics 1 is primarily kids who (1) seek out AP classes for GPA bonus points and/or college admissions purposes, but (2) have no interest in science. So you want the easiest science class you can find among the “good” APs (meaning, not Env Sci). The choices for science APs are thus Bio (notoriously hard), Chem (ditto), Phys 1, or Phys C. Phys C is for the engineering types who are motivated to do well, so the humanities kids hold their noses and muddle through Phys 1, which the teacher accommodates with lots of curved grading and extra credit. They aren’t likely to do well on the AP Phys 1 exam regardless of how hard it is. D22 was spared all of this, as Covid blew up the normal class progressions in 2020-21 and she got into a highly selective school with a good excuse for having not taken Physics. I’m afraid that D26, on the other hand, is headed for a rude awakening next week.
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I actually just found data for our HS to compare pre-pandemic (2019) to post-pandemic (2022). It’s a top 20 HS in our state and is considered excellent in our region.
In general, 70-75% of students from our HS enroll in college. Of those that enroll in college, more than 2/3 go to in-state publics, ~15% to in-state privates, ~9% to OOS publics, and 8% to OOS privates. Less than half of the in-state public students attend the 2 flagships, and the rest are split evenly between community college and smaller publics.
The pre-post pandemic differences: 3% lower college enrollment overall. Of those that did go to college, in-state percentages didn’t change for public or private. 3% fewer opted for OOS privates, and 2% more opted for OOS publics (not the fancy ones).
Of those that attend in-state publics, more than half met all early college success benchmarks (no remediation, completing all courses, enrolling for a 2nd year). That number went up by 12% (!) post-pandemic.
I’m going to be interested to see more current data, since the most recent report I could access was for 2022.
That increase in college success benchmarks surprised me and I wonder if it was some holdover from the looser requirements during covid.
One thing that surprised me is that 12% more of the girls go to college than the boys. There was no data on that pre-pandemic so I can’t say if there was a shift.
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The difference is in how the questions are formatted now as opposed to then. But that isn’t the topic of this particular thread. Feel free to pm me about the ancient version of the SAT because I am interested.
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Personally, I think that is already nearly standard for top top schools if you come from certain backgrounds/locations and not a huge differentiator like it was.
I also think testing is only back at top schools (which is meaningful to be sure), and will stay that way. I think other schools need the apps! Especially given demographic changes…
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that is wild! My kids HS, not even top 20 in state, has multiple kids go to each Ivy except Penn each year (Penn seems to hate us;). AND many to top 20s…
Maybe 20-25% go to in-state schools.
I think, in last few years, a lot more have started going to Canada and Europe.
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Of the three you list - AP Bio, AP Chem and AP Physics 1, physics will easily be the most difficult for most students - not all but most, especially those that are not mathematically inclined. Physics tends to be the toughest science followed by chemistry followed by biology as a general rule. KIds who get a 4 or 5 in Physics 1 should be able to match or exceed their grade on the other two science exams if they can memorize well and find the subject interesting enough. The students in your school seem to not be given good recommendations regarding which science a student should take if they are being told to do Physics as the “easy” one. Note that Physics C: Mechanics and Physics 1 cover the same material except that Mechanics uses Calculus rather than just Algebra. I know a teacher who teaches the two courses in the same class and recommends that all students take the calc version of the test even if they don’t have calculus since it’s easier to pass than Physics 1.
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The scarcity of high scores is not because Physics 1 is the hardest AP but rather that at some HS it’s the only Physics class offered and some students take it in spite of not being prepared.
Physics C, Chem, APUSH and/or Euro History, Spanish Lit are the most advanced content-wise but typically have entrance mechanisms that make it less likely for unprepared students to take the class, either because of the Calc requirement for Physics C or having taken AP Spanish before Spanish Lit, or because there are other (regular, honors…) options for history.
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That may be true for the large percentage of students who fear math, but physics (especially with more math) may be the easiest science for those who like math and are good at it.
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Yes, I think there is probably a difference in how prepared students are for Physics 1 vs C.
At our HS, both Physics 1 and Physics C are offered as science electives for seniors.
Physics C is notorious at our HS for being a challenging course taught at a high level (including extra multivariable calculus that the teacher feels is necessary for understanding the subject matter), so it attracts only the students who are already strongest in math and science. If they do well in the course, students typically earn 5 on the exams.
Physics 1 attracts the students who don’t have as much math background, or are weaker in science, or who are just intimidated by Physics C. These students are more likely to struggle in the course and have more difficulty with the exam.
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This certainly seems to be the case at our school. (Also another thread where a number of people are lamenting their students’ ability in physics.) it was interesting to me that the poster referred to AP Bio as being “notoriously hard” - it is not considered “hard” as in concepts are difficult at our school, but that it is more the large volume of work that makes it difficult. More people take AP Bio than chem or physics as a result- a lot of work but comparatively “easier” if you can memorize. I can’t imagine our school doing an AP class where it is structured to be an easy A (even APES at our school is tough, it’s taught by the AP Chem teacher). ( If I were in college admissions I might be wondering why all these A students weren’t reporting AP test scores, but I’m not of course.)
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Small sample of my family, D19 being a solid B-with-effort student at math did not enjoy physics at all, C26 who is a natural at math loves it and finds it easy. (They flip the other way for history!)
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These statistics are meaningless because they ignore self-selection.
Let’s compare the score distributions of Calc AB and Calc BC
AP Calc AB:
- Score Distribution:
- 5: 21.4%
- 4: 27.8%
- 3: 15.3%
- 2: 22.7%
- 1: 12.9%
AP Calc BC:
- Score Distribution:
- 5: 47.7%
- 4: 21.1%
- 3: 12.1%
- 2: 13.9%
- 1: 5.2%
Based on this reasoning, the test for AP Calc AB is MORE difficult than the test for Calc BC, and the Calc AB course is MORE difficult than the Calc BC course, which of course makes no sense at all.
In short, you cannot use the distribution of scores as an indication of how challenging the course is. There is no reason to believe that Physics I is any more difficult than AP European History.
AP Physics I also teaches Mechanics using algebra. It’s not difficult because it’s difficult material, it’s difficult because it is teaching Mechanics in a very roundabout way. The course that should be taken is AP Physics C: Mechanics, which teaches the same thing, but uses Calculus, which was literally developed to help understand mechanics in a far more straightforward manner.
If they want to learn mechanics, they should probably take Physics C. If they have already taken a calculus course, it will be far simpler, and they will have learned what they need to know.
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Mod hat mode:
Folks, please move on from the discussion of AP classes.
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I don’t know if it’s been mentioned yet on this thread, but I would bet you $$ that compared to 5 yr ago, there’s a bigger focus now on the cost of college.
And more focus on students’ mental health.
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Five years ago, it was the early stages of COVID-19, before vaccines, when high schools, colleges, and their instructors and students were trying to handle the unprepared-for emergency switch to remote/distance education that occurred 1-2 months before.
That, of course, injected additional considerations into college matriculation choices since most admission decisions were already baked in before COVID-19 shutdowns of in-person activity occurred.