College Decision Help [Chapman vs UCD vs UCR vs Tulane vs Binghamton for Biology]

Hello everyone! With the May 1 decision deadline approaching, I’m feeling pretty unsure about my options and would really appreciate some advice.

I’m an IB student studying abroad, so I’ll be considered out-of-state for California schools. I’ve been accepted to Chapman, UC Davis, UC Riverside, Tulane, and Binghamton. Right now, I’m leaning toward staying in California and planning to major in biology.

I’m currently waitlisted at UC Irvine and UCSD, and I’ve heard they sometimes admit a good number of students off the waitlist, so I’m still holding onto that as a possibility. From what I understand, UCs don’t usually offer much financial aid or scholarships to out-of-state students, which makes it harder to justify compared to a school like Chapman where I received a strong aid package..

I’ve heard a lot of mixed opinions about Chapman. I did receive a pretty good amount of financial aid there, but I’m worried that its biology program might not be as strong as the UC options. Because of that, I’ve even started considering going to a California community college and trying to transfer into a more “prestigious” UC later.

I’m feeling really stuck and unsure what the best move is. If anyone has experience with these schools, especially for biology/pre-med, I’d love to hear your thoughts. Thank you so much!

UCD is a top school for biology if you can afford it.

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If you are planning on med school, your Biology Department only has to be good enough to offer the required undergrad courses, a very long list of institutions which includes Chapman. You won’t get bonus points because your Biology Department might, say, arguably be a better place to get a PhD.

What can be very important for med school is having a realistic plan for how to pay for it. A very few families can full pay for both undergrad and med school without much debt. If your family is not one of those, you should take seriously the benefits of saving on undergrad.

Finally, you should realize a large majority of people who start off thinking med school end up doing something else, for one reason or another. Fortunately, saving on costs is a benefit no matter what you choose, but you should think about where you would still be happy to be even if med school turned out not the goal.

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What will a stronger bio pro gram do for you ? Bio = low paid job or grad school on most cases.

All your schools are fine. Where do you want to be and where can you afford ?

See job titles of UCD grads.

Personally I would never pay OOS tuition for a UC. CSUs are much cheaper if you got in.

But what you pay for college is personal and as long as you are not having to take loans, it’s fine - it’s your call. Good luck.

https://careercenter.ucdavis.edu/career-discovery/undergraduate-students/what-can-i-do/majors-data?mcid=219

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Where do your parents live? Are you enrolled in a California high school’s IB program and are currently studying abroad for a term/year? Or is your whole family living abroad right now in the place where you’re attending school? I’m a bit confused when you talk about “staying in California” as it seems to indicate that’s where you’re from. Depending on the answer(s), you may actually qualify as an in-state student for California.

Tagging @Gumbymom who may have additional insight once you provide your answers.

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Chapman has good support for pre-healthcare students.

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I note just a casual look at their Bio Department’s undergrad pages suggested if anything it was geared to helping out pre-health students, including with ample undergrad research opportunities.

Seems like a very solid choice to me, given the affordability factor.

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I mostly do not have experience with the specific schools where you got accepted. I do have plenty of family members who were heavy on the “biology” side of things, including a daughter currently getting a PhD in a biomedical field and another daughter who is a veterinarian. The pre-vet required classes are the same as the premed required classes, so she took the full list of them and both daughters knew quite a few premed students.

The first thing that comes to mind is that for someone getting a bachelor’s degree in biology, some form of graduate school is relatively likely (whether medical school or something else). PhD’s are typically fully funded. Master’s degrees are not. Medical school is typically not funded, is another four years, and is typically very expensive.

If you want to keep the option open of ever attending medical school, then you need to budget for a full 8 years of university. You do not want to take the full cost of medical school as debt, this would be way too much debt. Even if you take a different track but stick with the biology major, you probably are better off budgeting for 4 years of undergrad, plus two years for a master’s degree, followed by a relatively modestly paying job. You do not want to take on much debt for the full 6 years if you end up going for a master’s degree. For students who go on for a PhD, some will do this after just a bachelor’s degree, and some will get a master’s first. Admissions to PhD programs in biology can however be exceptionally competitive.

I do not know much about Chapman. What I have heard is quite positive. I have also heard positive things about all of the other schools that you were accepted to. With a daughter who is a veterinarian, of course I am very well aware how excellent UC Davis is for veterinary medicine. One oddity there is that the premed classes at UC Davis will not only have many very strong premed students, these classes will also have many very strong pre-vet students (who will compete for grades in the classes, but will not compete for human medical shadowing opportunities since their medical shadowing will be with cows and horses and a wide range of other animals).

Some families are fine paying something like $800,000 per child for eight years of university without taking on debt and without any hardship. The vast majority of families are not able to afford this much for university. Find out what your budget is for a full 8 years, and keep this in mind.

The universities of California are great schools if you are in-state, but are expensive if you are out of state. Make sure that they will charge you as out of state. I think that Tulane and Binghamton are very good choices. From what little I know it sounds like Chapman is probably a very good choice also. Any of these can help you be prepared for and get accepted to good graduate programs (whether medical or otherwise).

One more thing that might be worth mentioning: At one point I asked two doctors I know where other students in their MD programs got their bachelor’s degree. One said “all over the place”. The other said essentially the same thing but without the easy to remember quote. At the opening reception for one daughter’s DVM program I got to hear where each student got their bachelor’s degree. Again the answer is “all over the place”. I can see on-line where every student in my other daughter’s PhD program came from, and again the answer is a very, very wide range of undergraduate colleges and universities. Some are ranked higher than any school you are considering (eg, there is one student from Harvard in her PhD program), some are from schools ranked lower than anything that you are considering, and quite a few are ranked about the same as the various schools that you are considering. Ranking really does not matter, and there are a huge number of schools that can prepare you very well to apply to graduate medical/biomedical programs (whether MD or something else) and that can prepare you very well to do well in the program. Premed classes will be tough at any of these schools, and will be full of very strong students at any of these schools.

All of which can be summarized as: Keep your full 8 year budget in mind, and wherever you go show up on day 1 planning to work very hard and make a strong commitment to staying ahead in all of your course work.

Best wishes.

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I am a healthcare provider in Southern California. I used to attend events at Chapman where professionals from a variety of STEM fields met with students. We each sat at a round table and every few minutes, the students would rotate to talk to a different professional. It was almost like speed dating. It was great for students who were unsure of exactly what they wanted to do. It helped them realize just how many professions are out there and to learn a little about what each of us do.

Looking at the Chapman website, I was pleased to see that Chapman’s pre-health advisors have appointments for alumni. I don’t think the UCs do that.

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If you are pre-med, in addition to looking strongly at costs (what have the CA schools you were admitted to telling you your COA will be?) its wiser to look at the school’s premed advising services and med school placement numbers.

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My daughter attended Davis. They have an amazing pre-health advisory program! With their help she got into medical school at UCSF.
Davis is unique in that they provide free tutoring for their students. Davis is known to be an extremely collaborative school.

The students work together to get strong grades. The professors are extremely supportive of the collaborative environment. It’s a green campus so that means they’re into environmental health as well.

Davis is also located in the middle of farmland and there are community clinics, sponsored by the university, for the indigent farmworkers in the area. The Napa area also has a number of volunteer opportunities. Sacramento is 20 minutes away by car. The train comes into the center of Davis and goes to points west (Berkeley and SF) and also goes into Sacramento.

She had a phenomenal time there and her professors were very accessible. The pre health advising program links the students to volunteer, clinical as well as lab experiences. They have a very strong record of placing students in medical schools.

But if you can’t afford the UC system, then you should try Chapman. I will say that the Chapman students did come to my location to provide free hearing screenings for my students.

Our children had friends at UC San Diego and Irvine and they reported that it was very competitive for grades and med school. I’ve heard the exact opposite about the waitlist at San Diego and Irvine. I’ve heard it’s extremely difficult. One of the reasons is location, location, location. Everyone wants to be in So Cal.

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I’m studying at an international school in Southeast Asia that offers the full IB program, and I’ve been here throughout high school. However, I’m a U.S. citizen, so I’d count as an out-of-state applicant.:sweat_smile:

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Okay! Thank you so much everyone for your replies! After thinking it through, I think I will probably commit to Chapman!!

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