College - Female Dominated

Parent Cafe
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<p>I have the PhD and my husband the 4 year degree, but he’s incredibly smart and made the money while I happily stayed home. I’ve seen many parents do an amazing job of parenting while both worked full-time jobs. I’m glad I didn’t have to because I’m quite ADD–pathologically disorganized-- and bad with stress. I also think it’s GREAT when Dads stay home with the kids.</p>

<p>My son was fine with sitting at desks and reading–never really liked recess–but for most little boys, our schools are not set up for their success.</p>

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<p>fencersmother, My kids (boys) were commenting the other day about the idyllic childhood they had. We lived in a very middle class neighborhood, but were fortunately surrounded by empty lots. They had little paths and “forts” all around, trees to climb, rope swings, a ditch full of tadpoles to play in/jump over, and of course the obligatory swingset/jungle gym. I remember them making a downhill “sled” out of an old lawnmower and riding it down the hill in our backyard. They put a plank across the water filled ditch, drove their bikes down the backyard hill, and aimed to get over the ditch on the plank. Someone deposited a small mountain of dirt in the lot next door and for an entire winter they drove their dirt bikes across it, “catching air” (I know, I know… trespassing…). They’d get hurt, yes, and there were mishaps, stitches, bruises, bites, and stings. A friend had the bright idea of throwing a basketball up in the air, and doing “batting practice” with it. Ended up swinging the bat so hard, it bounced off the ball and back around into the back of his head. Ouch. One day they brought us a dead water moccasin they’d hatcheted with a shovel. Yikes.
Call us rednecks, but the skills they learned served them well in sports later on, and hey, it was just plain fun!</p>

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<p>Some of these ‘missing males’ must be dropouts… I often wonder about the ill effect that has on anyone’s self confidence. I think it would be just one more strain on a marriage.</p>

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<p>In my opinion we are seeing the effects of single parent families (also know as families headed by women). A significant number of children are born intentionally out of wedlock. In other words, we are not talking about accidential births. Female children in these families have role models, namely their mothers. Male children in these families don’t have role models. They never learn what is to be expected of them as men. Many have poor relationship with women (hence the rise of “Bit—es” and “Wh–es” in common parlance). It is unfortunate that so many women who wish to give their children eveything, don’t give their boys the most important thing – a father who is also a husband.</p>

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<p>my husband and i have BOTH raised our children, and there’s no doubt they have benefited from 2-parenting ! men and women each give a unique contribution to the child, and neither can do it well alone. too many dads see their roles as “just” the breadwinner, often commuting with long days, only to come home when the kids are in bed. whether it’s the mom or the dad doing this, the kids lose. we are very fortunate, in that after i finally finished my PhD, we both worked it out so one of us was with our children, by afternoon. however, even when i was around in the beginning of my career, we enrolled our kids in Montessori school, not only for the learning environment, but the social one, as we were pretty rural back then. i know , with great pride that my girls will continue to develop into the independent, talented girls they are, with or without marriage. what i’d hoped for seems to be happening, and that is that they are personally happy and fulfilled, and capable of living on their own; then they have a clear field for going after what they want, without NEEDING to .</p>

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<p>I left my nursing career to stay home with our kids and I’m very happy to have had that opportunity. Unfortunately not many families around here can really afford to do so. Housing in the Boston area is incredibly expensive and it’s tough for many families to get buy. For the most part, I think that many could probably do it if they really wanted to, but many don’t.
Now that we have two in college and one in hs, I have a wonderful part time job that allows me to be home every afternoon when our S gets home. We’ve encouraged all of our kids to get good educations and have the abilty to support themselves and a family. My D’s both want to stay home if they can, and loved having me here. Believe it or not, my S says that if he could he would also like to be a primary care giver for his kids someday. He has many young cousins and is a great babysitter. He’ll be a wonderful dad. Maybe he’ll marry one of the go getters that are dominating in college today!<br>
Here is something interesting… My SIL is an MD. She’s married to a man that is finishing up his PhD. We recently had a conversation in which my BIL said that after all this time completing his schooling, even though he knows that he’d love being a stay at home dad, he won’t because his family expects him to get out and get a great job. I think that is really too bad.</p>

27

<p>Frankly, I have the best of both worlds… in my high school newspaper’s senior edition, where we had to list what we looked forward to from college, I listed, “to get my MRS degree.” </p>

<p>I look back at that now, and cringe, but that was the implicit message sent to most girls of my generation. So, I succeeded, and had finished having my kids at a relatively young age - 28. Part of that also had to do with having had parents that were much older… something I didn’t want to copy.</p>

<p>Both my kids were born while my husband was still in grad school; this was a blessing for us. We hadn’t established a lifestyle above what a few hundred dollars a month could provide, so when he graduated and began making real money, it was a no-brainer for me to stay at home… it still felt like we were rich. So I was able to breastfeed my kids fairly long, too (15 and 27 months) - I also consider it perhaps my greatest achievement as a mom. </p>

<p>Yet, once my kids were settled into their elementary school routines, I had the opportunity to pursue what I really wanted to do (now that I realized my MRS degree wasn’t all I wanted in life), going back to grad school. But I scheduled it around their schedules, so again, I had the best of both worlds. Basically I got to be there for them in the way I felt I needed to be, yet once they became independent, I was still young enough to pursue my other dreams. So at 47, I’ve had my kids, stayed home with them, sought out additional education, and now have an empty house, and can work whatever hours I want to because we never depended on my income to support a more lavish lifestyle. </p>

<p>Some of you may think I’m jumping the gun here, but I worry that, due to the enormous strides women have made in education and the corporate workforce, they may not feel the need to marry as I did… and let’s face it, my parents were probably very relieved when I did get married so they wouldn’t have to worry about me supporting myself. I see so many girls saying, “I can support myself, what’s the rush to get married?” Frankly, I wouldn’t be surprised if either one of my girls don’t ever get married because they’re so independent. I also wonder if I’ll ever have grandkids. </p>

<p>But I do believe in time that the environment of corporate America will evolved as more women are working their ways up the ladder to positions that hold more influence. I would certainly be proud of either of my daughters if that’s what they chose… although I really, really do want grandkids :)</p>

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<p>RS: two sides to the coin…with some father/husbands, better off to be without them than keep a marriage “for the sake of the children.” Yet another argument for a culture that encourages birth control, fwiw. Though I never saw more divorced mothers of two-year-olds than at pre-school…</p>

<p>The traditional family is a fine model for those for whom it works. I think we can do without a one-size-fits all approach, however. For TheMom it would have been a disaster and I suspect for TheDaughter as well, the latter having known since she was four years old that she wants to be a mother.</p>

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<p>

Agreed. Bad fathers can be worse than no father. I am concerned about those women who don’t give fathers a chance to find out whether the father will be a good one or a bad one. Boys who grow up with a father was only a seed doner, usually, if not always, resent their fathers. It is always better for a women to find the right man, marry him, and then give birth. Hopefully she selected a good father. </p>

<p>

Agreed. Using birth control empowers women to make decisions regarding childbirth. </p>

<p>

I am not sure what you mean. Please elaborate, if you wish.</p>

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<p>You don’t need fatherless sons to be bad fathers and husbands…the marriage process is difficult enough to succeed at in any circumstances. In my more pessimistic moments, I wonder that any couple ever gets together successfully for the long run. I certainly feel that TheMom and I have beaten the odds at 25+ years.</p>

<p>As to the other, both TheMom and TheDaughter would be pretty stunted if confined to the traditional stay-at-home parent role. And I wouldn’t do much better. TheMom and I actually did a pretty good job of providing family-involved role modeling on both sides of the gender line, I think, even if there were some asymmetries. (See the thread on “problem-solving males” vs. “aww, there there” females.) The both want to play in the world at large to as much as most men do, making their way for personal and professional success and, given their values, trying to make the world closer to their vision of “better” along the way. Think “activist,” though TheMom is a bit sneakier about it, pushing the glass ceiling in her professional field and being the unexpected subversive in the church world where she also uses her professional background as a volunteer. TheDaughter isn’t sneaky. She comes across as pretty Establishment but with a 96mph fastball, a good slider, and learning control.</p>

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<p>TheDad: I go to your church.</p>

<p>I stayed home for four years (back to back two year leaves of absence) and then had to go back to keep my job. Breast fed both kids and spent oddles of wonderful time with them.</p>

<p>D at four had already been in nursery school two years even though I was home. S at two wasn’t quite ready (he cried) but a tenured college teaching job was not give-up-able.</p>

<p>H had a business 1/8 mile from house and across the street from school. So he was the “I forgot to bring my flute” person.</p>

<p>We both worked, and we both were there. (My vacs coincided with kids). This was perfect for us and our kids. Kids got a lot from seeing me in my role and were very proud of me. Also proud of dad’s photo studio which has a presence in the town. Everyone knows him.</p>

<p>D would like to be on the Supreme Court but knows her liberal + politics won’t get her there. H wants med school. D is more agressive and outgoing, but she is very pretty so that’s what everyone notices, to her chagrin.</p>

<p>If there is love, I think all arrangements can work. At times I haven’t liked working so hard, but at times I have. </p>

<p>As for boys in schools, they are in the military, the police force, working at high paying blue color jobs (am not posting our plumbers last bill – too depressing.) They will still earn more money.</p>

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<p>I just want to point out a couple of things that should be obvious:</p>

<p>First, what we’re calling here “the traditional family” is a social construct that developed in the mid-19th Century in Western Europe and America, pretty much exclusively for the middle-class urban bourgeoisie and for pioneer farmers. It developed dynamically, has changed dynamically over its relatively short existence, and remains dynamic today. It isn’t “natural” or God-given. That doesn’t mean it’s bad or good – I tend to think it can be either, depending – but it’s no more or less timeless than our current mode of Christmas celebrations.</p>

<p>In fact, in my family, for one, the “traditional” family has barely ever existed. My grandmother probably came closest to being raised that way, although her parents often took months-long trips away from home, usually without their children, or with only one of six (and her “mother” was really her biological aunt, her real mother having died giving birth to her sister when my grandmother was two). That grandmother (a Radcliffe graduate) never worked in the employment economy, but her husband died early and while her children were young she effectively lived in a family compound. My mother spent almost as much time with her aunts as she did with her mother. My father was raised in a nuclear family with a stay-at-home mother. His relationship with his parents was not to be envied, and he spent most of his adult life doing whatever they didn’t. My mother worked throughout my childhood, and (apart from two year-long maternity leaves) my wife has worked continuously, too.</p>

<p>Second, third-party child care doesn’t have to be a bad thing, and can even be a very good thing if it involves stable, well-trained, loving caregivers. For lots of children (not necessarily the children of CC parents – perish the thought!) it is vastly superior to the alternative. Many, many more bad things happen to young children in the care of their mothers or of relatives than happen to them in professional child-care settings.</p>

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<p>When my kids were younger, it bothered me terribly that I had to work, but looking back from the perspective of one in college, I actually think it was for the best as my own, particular personality wouldn’t have allowed me to be completely dependent on someone else for financial support. Hubby is an amazing father and fills in my gaps perfectly, so the sometimes chaotic co-parenting that has evolved for us turns out to have been just the right thing. In my professional life, I’ve been watching firms try to deal with the “problem” of female lawyers who come out of great schools, cost the firm a lot of money, contribute enormously to the firm and then leave because the traditional law firm model doesn’t allow for the variable of a mother wanting to be with her child. I have been gratified to see that the model actually is slowly changing in some places. Rather than the absolute “8 and out” model, women are making partner later, taking time off and returning or creating their own scenarios, and then coming back and stepping right in. THat wouldn’t have happened as much as five years ago and I think it’s wonderful. My two daughters are very different. ZG plans her career choices around the fact that motherhood is her ultimate goal, where ZS wants to be Dictator for Life of the Whole World and motherhood is not in her plans. It’s great to be a woman and even better if individuals and society realize that there are many ways to achieve success, that a professional life doesn’t necessarily end at 60, and that woman can have it all – just not at the same time without compromises.</p>

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<p>When our third child started second grade my H really thought that it would be a benefit to all of us if I went back to work. I was offered a job working as a school nurse. I thought that if I worked when the kids were in school, I would be able to have my cake and eat it too. Unfortunately, I’ve never been able to just give some of myself to anything. I jumped in with both feet at work, got the place up to code, developed policy, and meanwhile cared for sick kids. Unfortunately, when I got home, I was wiped out emotionally and physically. I had enlisted the help of my H and kids to keep up with some of the house work, but things like taking kids to the doctor, orthodontist, dentist, getting the cars repaired and maintained, the laundry and the grocery shopping just felt like they were impossible to get done. One night, I was racing around trying to put away laundry and get lunches made for the next day when my oldest D said “Mommy, I’m glad you like your new job, but it just feels like you’re crabby and stressed out all the time. You hardly have any energy for US any more. I miss you.”
That was when I realized that just because they were in school did not mean that they didn’t still really need me when they got home. I also realized that although my H was trying to help, the bulk of the house and kid work still fell on me. I was still the one who felt ashamed if someone stopped over and the house was a mess. I was the one who cared about good nutrition and having the kids continue with their EC’s. I was really working two full time jobs and it was exhausting. Luckily it was near the end of the school year and after a family meeting, I decided to give notice. I think that there are a lot of people who can “do it all”, but with a H who has a demanding job that involves commuting and some travel, our family is just is not one of them. Do I miss the contact with other adults, sometimes. Do I miss the intellectual stimulation, sometimes, that’s why I went back to school and started directing plays part time.
I breastfed all of my kids until they weened themselves, at around 12 -16 mo. when we introduced the sippy cup and solids. I loved nursing the kids, but I don’t really consider it a great achievement or anything. I guess I’m part cow or something because I never had ANY trouble producing enough milk. Heck, I had enough for three! It was ridiculous!</p>

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<p>Thank you for your post, JHS, especially since you are a dad, rather than a mom. I hesitated to post on this thread because on other CC threads, mothers who disagreed with negative comments about working mothers have been accused of starting “mommy wars”.</p>

<p>I was especially taken aback by this excerpt from Post #17, above: “The “sad” part is when kids are taken to a day-care to be raised by a non-family member…”</p>

<p>As I have stated before, all moms and dads should do what they feel is best for them and their families, but should avoid derogatory comments regarding the choices of other families. </p>

<p>Both my husband and I have worked full time since we had kids (with short maternity leaves and a very short period of part time work for me for each kid). My kids both had very positive experiences at day care, but were definitely not “raised by non-family members.” </p>

<p>My kids are both pretty grown at this point, but when I think back to their early childhoods and school years, I remember playing all kinds of board games, reading books, crafts, playing outside, family gatherings, many camping trips both nearby and all over the U.S., making Halloween costumes, having them help with chores and home projects, baking, helping them with homework and school projects (for better or worse, I was more on top of their school work when they were younger than any other mom I know!), going to school events, coaching sports (my husband), Cub Scouts, Girl Scouts, playing music together (my husband and my kids), chauffering them to various activities, sleepovers … it goes on and on. I honestly feel that we spent more time with our kids and did more with them than most of the other families (either with one working parent or two working parents) we know.</p>

<p>FWIW, my daughter thinks it is normal for both moms and dads to work - she is surprised when she hears that her friend’s moms don’t work. She anticipates doing about the same thing we did when she has kids, eventually. (At this point, my son doesn’t think about having kids eventually, or at least he doesn’t tell me about it if he does :wink: )</p>

<p>I hae a question for you, BZ2010: Do you really think my kids were not raised by my husband and me?</p>

<p>EDIT - I cross-posted with Sarahsmom above, and I just want to say that this is not directed at all to her. She said that working outside the home was not the best approach for her family, but it may be fine for other families. This reinforces my point - everyone should do what is best for their family, without making negative judgements about others’ choices.</p>

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<p>I hope all the self righteous SAHMs never have their husbands ditch them, never have their husbands lose their jobs, or become disabled or otherwise unable to work…for those of us who live in expensive areas of the country, either the husband has to make a huge salary, or both parents need to work, period, end of story. And it isn’t about big cars, big houses, fancy vacations, blahblahblah.</p>

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<p>Even if I never get ditched or have any of the other awful things Allmusic mentions happen to me, I do not regret at all that I have been able to have an interesting career in addition to enjoying rasing two great kids!</p>

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<p>Nor do I. Now, if I had had a 9-5, requiring an early a.m. drop-off at day care, yadayayada, I might have had more regret. I have always been lucky to have been self-employed, and worked fewer hours when my kids were little and more as they got older, but always scheduled around them (and still do, which is a gift, I know).</p>

<p>But I have had a fascinating professional life, met intelligent people whom I never would otherwise have met, and developed a part of myself outside of my children and family, which has benefited us all.</p>

<p>Why begrudge women that? Makes no sense.</p>

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<p>“Why begrudge women that? Makes no sense”</p>

<p>Who begrudges women that? It’s also a valid choice to stay at home. There are more choices in life than just the abortion one. I know lots of women who were home for a while at various times and then went back later and even a bunch who took time out of working when their kids were in high school. I don’t necessarily think that a woman has to be on a straight linear progression from college to retirement. There can be a lot of years in there to do different things.</p>

40

<p>I gave had a “9-5” for my whole working career, fortunately with more flexibility for sick time and more vacation time and holidays than some other types of full-time jobs. When my son was very young, he went to a wonderful day-care at my workplace. When I changed jobs, my husband took my kids to day-care, as it was right near his workplace. Things got kind of hectic at times, but no one was unhappy or suffering due to our work/day-care arrangements. </p>

<p>Perhaps the secret is having two spouses who both feel that child-related and home-related responsibilities are to be shared equally (although with each spouse doing the actual tasks they are better at and more interested in). If one spouse feels that working at his or her full-time job fulfills his or her responsibility to the family, leaving the other spouse to both work full time and do all home-related and child-related tasks, then that person does have two full-time jobs which would be very stressful, if not impossible. </p>

<p>I am very fortunate that my husband has always felt that the kids and home are as much his responsibility as mine.</p>