I get it. And I understand that teenagers are not always the most logical creatures.
BUT- 1- Virtually everyone who has sent their kid to a state flagship has complaints about the administrative bureaucracy. Billing, credits to their kids account, missing documents for withdrawals from a 529-- I could name thirty states where folks claim this is a problem with their state U.
2- This sounds a bit like Groucho Marx syndrome. Who would want to go to a university that has so many (quality/quantity) top students? If I canât get into honors, the U might actually have higher standards than others? Not sure this one makes sense.
3- Percentage of instate is high. This time itâs our sage Yogi Berra- itâs SO crowded, nobody wants to go there anymore. Youâll need to explain how something so universally disdained can be chock-a-block with smart and talented kids.
4-- Yes, NJ is small. But so is Rhode Island (and I know NJ kids who are paying OUT OF STATE prices to attend an even smaller stateâs flagship where everyone goes home on the weekend. Delaware is small too.
So again- Iâm not sure your explanations make a whole lot of sense. Maybe itâs teen logic. But before parents take out a second mortgage to pay for someone elseâs flagship, maybe some grownup logic can prevail?
I think Rutgers suffers a bit from an attitude of the best/top or nothing that is prevalent throughout the tri state area. Most NJ students adopt a go big or go home approach (and Rutgers is home).
Rutgers is a great school but it doesnât have the best sports, the nicest weather, the cheapest tuition, the best reputation, the prettiest campus, etc. While good in many areas it doesnât stand out in locals minds for any one thing. Consequently it is perceived locally as a fall back or mediocre. This is in sharp contrast to the many successful graduates we know but it is the default view of many.
NJ students donât view it as offering the perfect fit for kids that have specific criteria. Those seeking sun go to Florida, cheap Bama, sports Georgia, academic prestige UVA or Michigan, change of scene UCs, etc.
2 - The issue is the in-state kids want to get into honors and canât. Not superiority
3- my point is home state diversity - at UDel for example have kids from many states. Rutgers is very homogeneous - not so many kids come from out of state.
Where does the ârankingâ of the school matter with respect to the other preferences? Jewish population was the only item marked down as important, but are there any other preferences that are more (or less) important than others? Also, does an invitation to the honors program of a school improve the âwants to feel that her academic efforts have paid offâ aspect, or is that insufficient?
Also, does she have at least one (and preferably more than one) school that is an extremely likely admit that she would be happy to enroll in and attend? Thatâs the most important school on the list, and sometimes students have a hard time finding one if the rank/prestige of a school is an important component of their college selection.
Are there any schools mentioned so far that have resonated? If not, any additional direction you can provide so that we can help provide additional suggestions?
To answer your questions:
I think the ranking is in the mix of considerations but this is not the primary. She wants to feel proud of the reputation of her school but it is not the ultimate item on her list. I think the weather, climbing and Jewish population (solid and active group) are key for her, in addition to a lively and spirited campus. Nothing too small or too quiet.
I dont think we have an idea of what would be a âlikely admitâ for her so that has made it hard for her to get excited about one specific school.
The only schools she has visited are several UC campuses and Wash U. She was intrigued by UCSB when she was there but again has not had a lot of comparison.
I think these may be solid considerations, although none are a safe bet at all:
UCSB
UC Berkeley
UNC Chapell Hill
UVA
Tulane
Wake Forest (?)
ASU Barrett Honors College
Is she willing to retake the ACT and focus study and practice on the subtests she needs to bring up? That might open more doors for schools that superscore
The others will be difficult although Wake being need aware - if you are full pay - that will give you a chance. That can help at Tulane too.
Sheâll need more realistic choices - at least one more - in addition to ASU. Many colleges have strong Honors Colleges.
Thatâs not to say that itâs not a good list - but itâs a reachy list.
This reads like a list where the ranking is a primary consideration - which is ok if that where she puts it. But she just needs to be honest with herself.
Have you all looked at any of the schools mentioned above? You can make a spreadsheet and put metrics of importance - Jewish Life, Rock Climbing, Greek Life, etc. - and rate each 1-5 or 1-10. Give a weighting to each column - and come up with a score - or something like that.
Hopefully youâll get to go visit some - nothing helps like that!!
Have you considered the University of Delaware? I think that checks a lot of boxes.
UNC has a small Jewish population (about 5%) but it does have a Hillel on/near campus that hosts various events (BBQs etc). There are climbing walls and a climbing club. Greek life is there if you want it and easy to ignore if you donât.
Besides BarrettâŠI think the list is on the reachy side, which is why I suggested UDel. She should certainly apply- I would just find another likely that she would be happy attending.
To get better chancing info for the UCs, posters will need the various UC GPAs, at which point @Gumbymom or @ucbalumnus can probably give you better guidance:
These are my guesses as to what her chances might be at the colleges you just mentioned:
Extremely Likely (80-99+%)
ASU (I donât know enough about Barrett to chance, but others seem to think it likely)
Likely (60-79%)
Toss-Up (40-59%)
Lower Probability (20-39%)
Wake Forest
Low Probability (less than 20%)
UC â Berkeley
UNC â Chapel Hill
UVA
Tulane (EA or RD but would be a likely if ED)
Most of the schools in post #41 would be extremely likely admits, apart from Stanford, UC-Berkeley, UC-Davis, and Santa Clara. The first two would be low probability schools, I donât know about UC-Davis, and Santa Clara would probably be a toss-up.
I used the UC calculator you provided and got the same result as her school calculates: 3.97 Unweighted, 4.64 Weighted
I appreciate the breakdown of probabilities. We are very open to the suggestions in this list, I was just providing the schools that she and I have started chatting about so happy to have the others to consider.
Iâm not a rock climber - but Wake doesnât seem to fit the bill - a 13 foot wall when Iâve read of others with 40+ feet.
Maybe itâs a different type of wall where 13 feet is actually good?
They do have a club - 2nd link - perhaps itâs a good idea to reach out to each club at all schools of interest (thereâs an email contact) to ask how often and where they go, etc. Sometimes reality doesnât match what they post on the websites - as far as frequency, etc.
Wake stood out to me because while they have grown their Jewish population and my daughter did initially have interest, I still canât get past its roots and its name (the Demon Deacons) - if I was Jewish So I looked to see furtherâŠbut they have made strides in growing their Jewish population - with a sizable undergrad contingent as a % of the population.
Thatâs likely just the bouldering wall. Wake does have rope climbing as well, which is much higher. The thing is with Wake and most college gyms, as I mentioned earlier, is that for competitive climbers, theyâre just too easy. My son loves Wake and is applying but he found both the school gym and the local gym pretty easy.
Agreed. D works part time in a climbing gym now and was quite particular about which she thought were good: hers is 30 mins from where she lives because others were more about fitness and kidsâ parties than serious climbing. She was at Red River Gorge last weekend (90 mins drive for her) and that attracts a great group of climbers even though the routes are quite short.
Yes, past climbing exploits may bear little resemblance to current activities. This book stayed with me for a long time, but Iâd be astonished if Harvard Mountaineering Club do anything like this nowadays:
âBy the time David Roberts turned twenty-two, he had been involved in three fatal mountain climbing accidents and had himself escaped death by the sheerest of luck.
At age eighteen, Roberts witnessed the death of his first climbing partner in Boulder, Colorado. A few years later, he was the first on the scene of a fatal accident on Mount Washington, New Hampshire. Months afterward, while pioneering a new route in Alaska with the Harvard Mountaineering Club, Roberts watched as his climbing partner and friend fell wordlessly 4,000 feet to a glacier below.â
I knew two people who died climbing, one in college (Mt Kenya) and one after (Scotland). And my closest friend had a solo accident that could easily have been fatal if heâd not been able to walk out for help.
The OP probably has this information already but one thing my son did when looking at building a college list was to go through the Collegiate events and see which schools were competing.
I live in MA and do a LOT of hiking - like 500 miles/year - in NH. Pretty familiar with the history of the trails and such and itâs interesting how much of that stuff was developed by academics from the 1850âs to 1950âs. They (and students) had the summers off. They would travel north from different colleges with Harvard being a prominent one and research, commune with nature, cut new trails, etc. You can look up the Weeks act that set up the National Forest system in 1911, John Weeks wasnât an academic but a MA Congressman just showing the environmental focus on things regionally at that time.
Way way way off the original topic.
I would ask the OP how important the climbing component of things would be. Thereâs a few schools that VERY STRONGLY check your Dâs boxes with the exception of the climbing and I feel like weâre struggling to find an option as good that includes climbing as a component. Realizing that when she goes off to school there will be breaks at Thanksgiving and Spring break and Summers at home that sheâll be able to take advantage of that - just how important is it for her to have a gym or outdoors nearby to the school? A deal breaker?
Wake has a really wonderful Hillel community which my child has very much enjoyed. They even sent chicken soup when he was sick. I canât speak to the climbing at all, but my child has loved the overall community, as well as the Jewish community.
So I looked to see furtherâŠbut they have made strides in growing their Jewish population - with a sizable undergrad contingent as a % of the population.