College list Northeast Only

College Search & Lists
21

I agree @bluebayou . I cannot imagine a kid at Vassar or Oberlin being happy at GW, or Georgetown, or Penn.

@gablesdad , I think your D should spend time on the websites Niche and maybe Uni Go (all one word. Be warned that Uni Go has a lot of reviews that are clearly from angry students, and are not dated.) She needs to get a better sense of the vibe of these schools during this Covid time. As I said, these colleges aren’t interchangeable. She can also look at Instagram and look for tagged posts for colleges of interest.

22

Thank you all. What are the principal “culture” differences you would describe between the Brown/Tufts/Wesleyan/Vassar/Oberlin/Haverford/BM/Conn crowd on the one hand and the Duke/Georgetown/Penn/Vanderbilt/BC/GW crowd on the other hand? How do Swarthmore, Holy Cross, American, Wake Forest and Amherst/Williams compare to those two “culture” bundles?

The “culture” and “feel” is hard to assess virtually and our GCs are a bit overwhelmed with the seniors for now (D is junior and we are trying to plan appropriately distanced visits). She could really benefit from your helpful assessments as an initial intro. We follow many of your posts and your insights seem so real, helpful and informed… really appreciate it.

23

Wesleyan u/g and Penn grad school alum, here. From what I can tell by following them over the years, the first group of LACs (plus Brown) have a highly polished arts program attached to them in one form or another. And, by that I mean, the performing arts: dance, theater and/or music. This draws a particular cultural cohort to their campuses, and marginally more women.

By contrast, the universities you’ve named, all have either engineering or undergraduate business majors which tend to appeal to male applicants. I think those are the principal differences. Add Division I sports and you have a culture at some of those universities that more resembles that of a state flagship university than an Ivy League college.

IMO, Swarthmore, Amherst, and Williams have way more in common with the other LACs than with Penn and Duke. A lacrosse player at any one of the T10 LACs would find it hard to avoid meeting and knowing people outside his sport and that might or might not be an appealing quality of those campuses (I happen to think it’s one of the strengths of a LAC.) Depends on the applicant.

I would put Holy Cross and American closer to GT and BC, strong in the humanities and political science and culturally conservative.

24

brown/wesleyan/vassar/oberlin/haverford/bm/conn: these are the schools you will find your liberal/artsy/crunchy students at.

— brown has and forever will be considered the most liberal and “hippy” ivy league school. the open curriculum inspires independence. RISD is also very close. it has educated people in the arts such as john krasinski (a quiet place; the office) and emma watson (harry potter; the perks of being a wallflower).

— wesleyan is very similar to brown in that it, too, has an open curriculum. i would also regard it as the most hippy-ish nescac school. students are rather liberal. the student body size is a little bigger than other LACs. it has educated people in the arts such as lin manuel-miranda and beanie feldstein (booksmart; lady bird).

— vassar is one of the seven sisters, but it has been admitting men for decades. it’s known for having a rather liberal student body and a high number of LGBTQ+ students, both male and female (i think one of the FAQs on their website is something along the lines of “i heard vassar is really gay. is that true?”). it has educated people in the arts such as meryl streep and lisa kudrow.

— oberlin is arguably the most liberal school of the cohort— arguably the most liberal school in the nation second to reed in portland. activism is very big. its student body size is also a little bigger than other LACs because it’s also home to a highly regarded conservatory of music. performances are free for all students. the school has had some setbacks in recent years, but it’s still a wonderful school. it has educated people in the arts such as lena dunham (girls; this is 40) and ed helms (the office; the hangover).

— haverford is the smallest school on the list and arguably the most quirky. the honor code puts a lot of trust in students. less artsy than the previously mentioned schools. students can cross register bryn mawr (the most populat option since it’s only two miles away), swarthmore, or penn. it has educated people in the arts such as daniel dae kim (lost; hawaii five-0) and chevy chase.

— bryn mawr is the women’s college. very liberal and a bit artsy. constantly considered one of the most LGBTQ+ friendly campuses in the nation (and proud of it). only two miles from haverford. because of cross registration, men are also on campus. it has educated people in the arts such as katherine hepburn and maggie siff (mad men; sons of anarchy).

— conncoll is the most preppy out of the bunch, but as weird as it sounds, i think the preppiness matches the architecture of the campus (in other words, it feels like it should be). i feel like the best way to describe it is conn is the liberal sorority sister whereas trinity is the conservative frat bro. it used to be an all women’s college, but it, too, has been admitting men for decades. NESCAC school but no football. i couldn’t find any prominent arts-educated alumni, so my apologies.

duke/georgetown/penn/vanderbilt/bc/gw: these are the schools at which you will find your preppy, pre-professional students.

all are middle of the road when it comes to politics except for maybe penn, which i would deem decently liberal (not including wharton), and bc, which i would deem a little conservative.

i don’t know much about the environments of georgetown or gw.

duke and vandy are both rather preppy, with vandy easily taking the cake. the greek scene is decently active at both schools. duke basketball is hard to beat, and vandy sucks at everything (#GoVols). vandy’s located in nashville, which is a fun, fun city. in terms of fit, i think it would matter more at vandy.

S/W/A: the first cohort of schools
WF: the second cohort of schools
HC/AU: i’m not sure

25

BU, Fordham, Barnard, Holy Cross, W&M, UVA, or Swarthmore?

26

Interesting take @kalons and I mostly agree. I do think Haverford is a little conservative and preppy. We felt that Conn Coll was quite arty, very friendly and not terribly preppy.

Swat is a high reach and is intense and intellectual, though it’s definitely not mainstream. I don’t think it’s at all like Penn, GTown, or GW. Williams is very isolated, in the middle of nowhere. It’s liberal as in “liberal arts” but it’s got a lot of prep school kids and is “old money.” I think Amherst is kind of like a mini version of Brown. Both are very diverse. But again, these are all reaches. Do you need more of those?

You seem to have added more now with Duke and Vandy. If I was going to group them together with others, I would put BC, GTown, GW, Penn in that same group, with a tad of Holy Cross, but Holy Cross has more LAC vibe than the others.

I guess main differences between those two groupings would that your second group is going to have a more preprofessional vibe. That doesn’t mean there won’t be any preprofessional types or arty types at all those schools, because there will be. Being honest, you seem to be focusing way too much on super selective colleges. Get the Fiske guide. It does a really great job of with words in capturing the feel of a college.

27

Awesome input!!!

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“What are the principal “culture” differences you would describe between the Brown/Tufts/Wesleyan/Vassar/Oberlin/Haverford/BM/Conn crowd on the one hand and the Duke/Georgetown/Penn/Vanderbilt/BC/GW crowd on the other hand? How do Swarthmore, Holy Cross, American, Wake Forest and Amherst/Williams compare to those two “culture” bundles?”

Great question. I’ll give the caveat that a smart kid who is somewhat self-directed and self confident is going to be able to find his/her place anywhere. I know kids who are the crunchiest/Boho kids you’ve ever met who love GW (which doesn’t have a huge alternative type culture) and kids who feel like 45 year olds transplanted from the Eisenhower administration who find their place at Wesleyan. But for sure- they are outliers, and it takes a certain kind of personality (and self confidence) to swim against the tide.

The Brown/Wes type vibe- even if you are not into the arts, there will be kids in your freshman dorm who are, and all of you will head out on Sat. night to watch the poetry slam/listen to the concert/watch a performance of “Taming of the Shrew” set to rap music. The Duke/BC vibe- kids start worrying about their GPA the first week of freshman year, because their med school/business school/investment banking internship requires a 4.0.

Slight exaggeration on both- but you get the idea. If you can post more about your kid- likes, interests, dislikes- we can be more helpful. The one thing I would NOT rely on us for- where can your kid be admitted. Seriously- that’s what you pay for at prep school- the detailed graphs and spreadsheets which the counselors keep which will show where kids like yours get admitted, get rejected, and why. They know this stuff!!!

I also think that sussing out the type of intellectual intensity your kid is looking for is important. Yes, some of it will vary by discipline for sure. Swarthmore is likely not the first choice for a kid who wants to “relax” in college; American is likely not the first choice for a kid who wants deep discussions about Aristotle and Ovid at midnight. Again, a generalization- but if you have a kid who wants a full blown, intense intellectual experience, than from this list I’d go with Wes/Haverford/BM/Swarthmore type grouping, and not Vanderbilt/BC/GW/American if that makes sense.

If you DO have that type of kid- add Wellesley to your list. And take off Wake if you ONLY want Northeast- there are better places to explore than Wake if you’re serious about New England/NY/NJ. Like Middlebury?

29

thank you all; more matches and safeties with national name recognition on the artsy/introvert/quirky culture range would be appreciated. The national name recognition requirement comes from her, not her parents (before I get judged by some of you).

30

Skidmore? Bard?

31

@Lindagaf As a Haverford alum who has remained quite involved with the college and had a D apply last year, I would not describe Haverford as preppy or conservative. It is nerdy, it is quirky, it’s full of SJW, with a student body that might be described as earnest and liberal to a fault. It’s not artsy, despite having a good fine arts department for a school its size, and, seems to be a better fit for students who want to major in STEM or social sciences.

I agree with @blossom, “that a smart kid who is somewhat self-directed and self-confident is going to be able to find his/her place anywhere.” If you met my artsy, funky D you would think that she Brown, Wesleyan, or Vassar would be her first choice, but she said that they felt too much like her artsy, progressive high school. She ended up falling in love with Middlebury and Williams, which I never would have predicted.

32

falling in love after a campus visit will be hard in the current pandemic environment unfortunately… (although I guess it would be the equivalent of love at first sight via online dating… which I am too old to understand…)

33

OK, I didn’t realize that she’s starting her junior year right now, so you are very early in the process. I think the starting point isn’t with specific schools, but is to try to figure out the type of school that appeals to your daughter. E.g. Rural v. Urban. Big v. Small. Those types of things. If you can narrow it down – e.g. only schools in/near cities, that is a good starting point. Then you can go on to artsy schools in/near cities etc.

Can you drive her around some campuses to at least get a feel for physical differences?

34

How about Gettysburg and Occidental?

35

Know oxy is in LA

36

@gotham_mom , you know better than me.:slight_smile:

@gablesdad , based on this:

“more matches and safeties with national name recognition on the artsy/introvert/quirky culture range would be appreciated.“

I would rework that list if I were her. Get her a Fiske Guide. She will use it for a whole year, No to Gettysburg. Maybe Dickinson.

Of course I’m not a teenager, and I totally get how so many kids gravitate towards a “name.” But understand that the people who matter KNOW about colleges your D may not have considered.

Going off what you said, and thinking of schools that might fit the bill with being both a bit artsy-liberal and give kids excellent connections for good jobs, a list might include, in no order:
Yale
Brown
Amherst
Wesleyan
Vassar
Bates
Kenyon-Ohio (as is Oberlin)
Haverford
Bryn Mawr
Wellesley
Skidmore
Conn College-low match
Muhlenberg-safety
Temple-if she needs a big city safety
Occidental could be a safety.
Brandeis?
Lafayette?
Colby?
Bowdoin?
Marist?-safety

Too many. A million others? Anyone, feel free to add or subtract or detract.

37

Hamilton?

38

For brief impressions of several liberal arts colleges, see reply #12: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/2123956-differences-between-top-east-coast-lacs-williams-amherst-swarthmore-bowdoin-middlebury-etc-p1.html.

39

As @kalons says, Barnard College is extremely good, meets full financial need, and is right next door to Columbia University: where you can take courses, participate in clubs at etc. This is because Barnard is technically a part of Columbia University as one of its four colleges, though it’s “largely autonomous” with separate admissions, financial aid processes etc. I believe your diploma will state that you graduated from “Barnard College OF Columbia University.” According to the following website (https://barnard.edu/boldly-barnard/columbia-university ) you can choose to major at Columbia (probably only if Barnard doesn’t offer the major,) and there are multiple Barnard & Columbia combined bachelors/masters degree programs.

40

The curriculum between the two are also different, as Columbia has the very rigid CORE, while a quick google search shows that Barnard has distribution general education requirements. It’s important to note that they are SEPARATE colleges, so only apply if your daughter would like the collaborative feel of a smaller college (it’s listed as a LAC on US News, which can be helpful to learn about schools, but don’t trust the somewhat arbitrary rankings) with the ability to do research etc. at a large research university, though Barnard likely has its own research being conducted by professors too.