College Presidents seek debate on legal drinking age

Parent Cafe
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<p>"McCardell cites the work of Alexander Wagenaar, a University of Florida epidemiologist and expert on how changes in the drinking age affect safety. But Wagenaar himself sides with MADD in the debate. </p>

<p>The college presidents “see a problem of drinking on college campuses, and they don’t want to deal with it,” Wagenaar said in a telephone interview. “It’s really unfortunate, but the science is very clear.” </p>

<p>Another scholar who has extensively researched college binge-drinking also criticized the presidents’ initiative. </p>

<p>“I understand why colleges are doing it, because it splits their students, and they like to treat them all alike rather than having to card some of them. It’s a nuisance to them,” said Henry Wechsler of the Harvard School of Public Health. </p>

<p>But, “I wish these college presidents sat around and tried to work out ways to deal with the problem on their campus rather than try to eliminate the problem by defining it out of existence,” he said.</p>

<p>ID and Arcadia - you are being unfair to Morty Shapiro at Williams. Yes, he closed the student health center at night because he couldn’t find a single doctor willing to undertake the liability risk of treating all the dangerously inebriated students. Now the ambulances have regular runs through the snow and ice to the North Adams hospital. But (and ID, you know this) - with the approval of a special meeting of the Board of Trustees called, at great expense, to deal with the massive alcohol problem they have, Morty has spent more than five million dollars, against the vast majority of student opinion at the time, to revamp the entire Williams social/housing system in an effort to “dilute” problem drinking (spreading it across the campus, whereas previously it had been more confined to fewer places.) The jury is out as to whether it will be successful (I kind of doubt it.) But you can’t say either that he isn’t extremely worried about (I can tell you from personal correspondence that he is), or that he hasn’t spent millions trying to address it.</p>

<p>Toneranger - to me the big question really isn’t whether an 18-year-old should legally drink. It isn’t because, whatever you or I or the college presidents think or say, that isn’t going to change any time soon. The big question is how colleges and university presidents decide TODAY to educate their students, protect them against acute or chronic problems related to binge and heavy drinking, and use their positions to teach respect for the law. I see far too many of them, starting with McCardell, as failing in both their academic and moral obligations to their students.</p>

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<p>The drinkingage was 18 when I was growing up and we had beer bongs, and quarters nights - which is binge drinking at it’s finest…it wasn’t that it was “the forbidden fruit” it was because we hadn’t been educated, didn’t have anything else to do and “everybody was doing it”. We can’t tell our kids not to do anything and expect them to listen- we have to teach them why they wouldn’t want to and one of the reasons should be that drinking under the age of 21 is illegal and has penalties.</p>

<p>Also the reason our 14 and 15 year olds are drinking is because we parents are so afraid to say no, and if you can say that the law shouldn’t apply to your 18 year old because you don’t agree with it…then what would stop the 14 and 15 year old? We can’t pick and choose our laws and then expect our kids not to do the same. Besides, around here- the parent’s if not actually buying it for them - give them very easy access to alcohol and money.</p>

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Since nobody else seems to be stepping up, I’ll suggest it.</p>

<p>what interesteddad misses is the law of unintended consequences. Does he really believe that any 18 year old who wants booze can’t get it? Maybe at the military academies and Bob Jones university, but for most kids there is an acomodating kid of legal age around.</p>

<p>I give as example what happened at a U I know about. Primary residential in nature, it used to be legal to have open beverages in public as long as you were 21. Many a Fri or Sat nite kids would be walking around, six-pack in hand, chatting with friends and looking for music. Sure, there were some issues; the kid who was 21 would hold the alcohol sometimes and let his/her younger friends have some when it seemed like nobody was watching. Sometimes those of legal age would drink too much.</p>

<p>So determined to nip the problem in the bud, the people in the larger community (many of who had never set foot on the campus, but didn’t like those young scofflaws anyway) passed a new law. No open containers. Problem solved? Not quite! Today, things are worse. You see, its still legal to buy alcohol, just not to carry open containers. So rather than walking around for a couple of hours sipping beers, kids now do shots in their dorm rooms and apartments before going out. But have the advocates learned from any of this? Of course not; the clamoring now is for stricter laws and penalties.</p>

<p>interesteddad doesn’t mention that alcohol has been an issue in all societies, in all periods. We tried a more extreme version of what I’d bet he supports – Prohibition – and we still suffer the after-effects today.</p>

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<p>“what interesteddad misses is the law of unintended consequences. Does he really believe that any 18 year old who wants booze can’t get it?”</p>

<p>The data shows quite clearly that while they can, when the culture is changed, and/or laws enforced, large numbers of them don’t, or don’t very often. (Many incipient alcoholics, roughly 16% of the student population at my alma mater, will likely drink in any case, if they can get it.)</p>

<p>Do you believe that laws against speeding mean that people who drive in autos that can travel up to 120 mph won’t speed? Of course not. Do anti-speeding laws impact the way people drive? Of course they do.</p>

<p>And, no, I do NOT support prohibition. But I think that anyone who really believes the issue TODAY on college campuses is about the drinking age is missing the point.</p>

<p>PS - TO THE MODERATOR - the current thread name is inaccurate. The college presidents did NOT speak out in favor of lowering the drinking age, as the linked article in the first post makes clear. They spoke out in favor of debate about it. Could you please change the title?</p>

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<p>Lower the age of drinking to 18 and then come down hard on drunken driving, intoxication in public etc. I’m tired of the laws making criminals of our young adults for something my generation did in college. The rules have become stupid. If you are in a room where under 21 year old adults are drinking, you can lose your scholarship. College kids are written up, made to pay for 100 $ all day anti-drinking seminars for having a beer in their rooms. I can see reducing the drinking age to 18 or 19 and then coming down very very hard on public drunkenness, drunk driving and such.</p>

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<p>The Duke Medical Center reported that some 40% of Duke students experienced an alcohol blackout in the past year (when they studied the issue). The overwhelming majority had been drunk in public, and many more who did not experience a blackout had also been publicly intoxicated.</p>

<p>So I ask you, and I am being serious, how hard is this “very, very hard” you’d be willing to come down on more than half of the Duke student body? (I’m only using Duke as an example because their data is very public.) Suspend them? Expel them? Put them all on double supersecret probation? Wouldn’t you be doing exactly what others accuse the drinking age of doing, namely, driving problem drinking underground?</p>

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<p>Moderator Note:</p>

<p>The thread title has been changed to be more accurate based on the posted article, as well as the mission statement from the Amethyst Initiative’s website. The new title of this thread is: “College Presidents Seek Debate on Legal Drinking Age.”</p>

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<p>So what about countries with lower or nonexistent drinking ages? Do they face the same issues with binge drinking on their college campuses?</p>

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<p>I am in favor of this along with improving our public transportation and/or college shuttles. I have been to too many small campuses in isolated areas where shuttles are not offered, and there isn’t public transit. I cannot help but think that the mix of alcohol and driving do not happen on campuses where alternative transportation is unavailable.</p>

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<p>[Lower</a> drinking age is backed – baltimoresun.com](<a href=“http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bal-te.md.drink19aug19,0,2322447.story]Lower”>http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bal-te.md.drink19aug19,0,2322447.story)</p>

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<p>“The big question is how colleges and university presidents decide TODAY to educate their students, protect them against acute or chronic problems related to binge and heavy drinking, and use their positions to teach respect for the law”
Mini, I agree with you for the most part. But I believe the current law gets in the way. I see police cracking down and handing out citations for kids walking around after a few beers (great idea - send them to their cars to hide). I see resources spent on busting up off campus parties - with citations handed out to kids who were just “there” among the drinkers. I hear (from my s) about kids scared by an overly punitive police force- hiding in off campus apartments - scared to seek medical help for their friends due to the consequences. Does this sound like an environment that teaches kids about responsible drinking? How can they teach kids to drink responsibly when it is ILLEGAL to drink responsibly? In many states, it’s illegal to even hang out with drinkers. What are we teaching here? I know…to be scared of police, and to hide. Yeah, that’s right because the law is NOT stopping the kids who want to drink.<br>
I agree that it’s time to get moving on some things that well help to turn the tide here. I DO see that the University Presidents have their own interests in mind…but I continue to believe that a debate on this issue is warranted. There are many things that can change here…the drinking age is just one area to revisit.</p>

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<p>^The parties in off campus locations, whether it is in a woody campsite, a frat house, off campus apartments, etc., scare me because it opens up more of a chance of drunk driving. I say that because after the party if they do not “crash” on a coach or floor, they might drive themselves back to their campus dorm room if college or public transit at that hour is not available.</p>

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<p>^^ nemom- agree. Even when off campus is very near on campus and a walk to the dorms, I hear that many students are scared to walk home because of police walking around nabbing kids with breathalyzers. So it’s crash on the floor or maybe…drive? Something is wrong with this picture…</p>

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<p>My son, at 21, was grabbed in the dark by two plain clothes state cops on a street right next to campus and cuffed with his hands behind his back. This was on Saturday evening during the big spring campus weekend event. It was 9pm and he and his girlfriend were just walking down the street after having been at a party. He told the cops that he was 21 and they could check his ID in his wallet. They did, released him, and grabbed his girlfriend (didn’t cuff her) and gave her a citation for underaged drinking (they didn’t have any alcohol on them). To me, this is inexcusable. She had to go to a hearing (at which a number of other “offenders” were also present) and got sentenced to a 3 hour alcohol awareness class. I fail to see the point of all this. The campus police apologized to the kids for the actions of the state police.</p>

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<p>MomofWC, this is a typical scenario according to what my son sees as well. The college campus apparently has a few “block parties” every year with seas of thousands of students outside. Many are drinking. Some small percentage of those students get caught and receive citations. The school has a “3 strike policy”. My son has a friend who received community service, class about alcohol abuse, parents needed an attorney (expensive), and I don’t know what else happened for “public drunkeness”. I know that the students are charged for the class about alcohol awareness. I think that some kids lose their driver’s license for a period of time.</p>

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<p>In PA, kids caught drinking underage do AUTOMATICALLY lose their license for 3 months on first offense - 1 year on second offense. This could be for as little as walking around after drinking ONE beer. Sometimes the cops go after the kids making trouble…other times it’s random busts. Oh, and you can can caught doing cocaine, and still keep your license in PA. Nice.</p>

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<p>Here are some of what may happen and guidelines in Virginia:</p>

<p>[Virginia</a> Alcohol Safety Action Program (VASAP)](<a href=“http://www.1800duilaws.com/dui_schools/va_duischools.asp]Virginia”>http://www.1800duilaws.com/dui_schools/va_duischools.asp)</p>

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<p>“So what about countries with lower or nonexistent drinking ages? Do they face the same issues with binge drinking on their college campuses?”</p>

<p>All northern European countries have higher (and in some cases, MUCH higher) levels of binge drinking than the U.S. Also higher rates of liver cancer, cirrhosis, and alcohol-induced deaths. However, with the exception of a few campuses in England, virtually all colleges and universities are non-residential.</p>

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<p>mini, have the rates of liver cancer, cirrhosis, and binge drinking decreased in this country since the legal age for drinking changed from 18 to 21? I honestly, have no idea. </p>

<p>I do feel that the binge drinking on and surrounding our college campuses is not under control and it is pretty bad. In my own college experience when the drinking age was 18, I never witnessed ANY binge drinking. We did have keg parties, but it meant a glass of beer for the evening. The keg was out in the open. I remember seeing a keg at one event in our student union. We did go “clubbing”, which meant one mixed drink for the evening, which was included with a very expensive cover charge (for a student it was expensive anyway). Most students did not purchase more than the drink included because it was too pricey. If one did not want alcohol, one could just get a soft drink with a twist of lemon instead. After clubbing for hours we would stop at a late open diner/restaurant for a snack, coffee, and quiet conversation. That was a typical college Saturday night.</p>

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<p>Drinking and driving laws (which should also extend to any mind altering substances such as illegal and some legal drugs) can be made tighter. So can public drunkenness laws. </p>

<p>I am for lowering the age to 18. However, I am aware that studies show that starting drink younger does raise the rates of alcohol induced deaths and problems. My kids did not start drinking until later, and every mental health professional has told me that it gives them a better chance of beating addiction and other issues that come with abuse. Statistically, at least. The younger they start, the greater the chances of problems. The link is irrefutable.</p>