Here’s the link to join the political forum: Politics forum - College Confidential Forums
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And to be clear, the previous moderator note to take it to PM was not a suggestion.
No, not bcos of FIRE, but bcos of thier past practices of commenting on nearly everything.
FIRE rates U-Chicago as 13th in Free Speech. (Harvard is #248, MIT #136.)
Chicago earns this high ranking by NOT speaking out, the opposite of what you are suggesting. In other words, if the Harvard Admin just stopped taking political positions, its ranking woudl rise over time.
btw: Columbia, a supposed adopter of the Chicago Principles is #236.
Marlowe1 coudl explain the Chicago position much better than I.
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Paging Dr. @marlowe1 !
IMO, as long as the rules are clear and they’re followed, it’s hard to complain if you’re a free speech proponent. But, it’s not up to us on this thread to decide what is and is not convenient, or to suppose that people should just move or pick another place if the place they are at is being disrupted in violation of the school’s TPM restrictions.
I can only imagine how much tar and feathering I would endure pretty much anywhere in Seattle were I to say this out loud but substitute AA, Latinx, LGBTorQ, or women in general, for Jew. Sorry guys, the world’s full of racists/bigots/misogynists, it’s going to happen anyway, so just get tougher. I’m just shocked that it is now those who would tar and feather me who are the ones driving this point. It is a monumental flip flop.
I’ve been to these demonstrations, one of which was on a university campus. They are full of antisemitism, and that’s giving the participants the benefit of the doubt that they really don’t know what “river to the sea” means. If you assume some knowledge for the meaning of that saying, then they are antisemitic to a very large extent. My impression is that there are plenty of people who are there to express a political view and only a political view. But they attract people who at least like to shout antisemitic comments and intimidate people who they think are either Jewish or don’t agree with them. If you have any doubt about that, just read what two of our community members who hail from the Bay Area have to say about the degree to which extreme pro-Palestinian views are commonplace there.
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So there are plenty of wonderful people in the mix ?
@bluebayou and @Chekov , I rise to your summons!
The point I would want to make about institutional neutrality is that it is much more than a prudential policy intended to avoid the difficulties and embroilments that arise when institutions of learning take sides in disputed social and political issues. Rather, it is or should be a fundamental principle flowing from the very idea of a university as an institution devoted to the creation of knowledge and the education of the young. This is the way the Kalven Report puts it:
“The neutrality of the university as an institution arises not from a lack of courage nor out of indifference and insensitivity. It arises out of respect for free inquiry and the obligation to discuss a diversity of viewpoints. And this neutrality as an institution has its complement in the fullest freedom for its faculty and students as individuals to participate in political action and social protest. It finds its complement, too, in the obligation of the university to provide a forum for the most searching and candid discussion of public issues.”
No doubt something like this has been said above, but it does seem worth re-stating. Not everyone accepts it, of course. I note that at UChicago it is fair game to debate the Kalven Report itself. That’s as it should be.
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It does take a hyper-politicized person to read the resolution put forward at the MIT Undergraduate Association referendum held today “supporting a permanent ceasefire in Gaza, the cutting of ties between MIT and the Israeli Military, and solidarity with pro-Palestine campus organizers" and think to themselves: “politics”.
Ah, but how do they feel about their math lectures getting disrupted with “free, free Palestine” howls? Is that also fair game? Or do they actually have some institutional guts to not rely on China’s final warnings?
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Seems like a classroom full of people who need more grit and to learn to toughen up. The professor and class, if not interested, could have just moved to another classroom, or maybe a parking garage. Do you know how many classrooms and parking garages they have at MIT?
Come on, man.
I’ll say this: in this particular instance, the protest leader or orchestrator, and those with him, were pretty respectful when the professor asked him to wait, and when they did start their chant, it wasn’t obvious that anyone was being singled out or harassed. But this is super tame as these things go. Anyway, I agree with your implied point: classroom time at MIT is a rare resource and hence expensive. Interrupt someone’s softball game if you must interrupt. Let class be taught and find another venue. It’s an entirely fair point to not want to pay tuition and then have the thing you’re buying (primarily at least) compromised. Same goes for library study.
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If that’s the example you are giving, then yes I think the students need to realize that not everyone shares their perspective on the supremacy of either Zionism, or any other political belief regarding the fate of a a beleaguered area in the Mideast, however much that upsets them. The NYT published an article interviewing 3 different experts on that slogan, none of whom agreed as to either its meaning or English translation, or current use by anyone in the Mideast or US. People will disagree on controversial topics… Some will be sad or hurt. Life goes on.
Generations of Catholic, Jewish, Black, and female students encountered hostile environments at school or work at one time. They persevered. All of these kids on any side will too.
Not to mention the tunnels.
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I have no idea what you’re talking about.
Yes, I’m sure there’s a lot of nuance behind those chants at the rallies that is just flying over my head. Now that I have access to the article, I can see that the people screaming it until their neck veins come close to exploding are just trying to convey an aspirational call for freedom, human rights and peaceful coexistence, not death, destruction or hate, as someone or another recently explained. Yes, I’m sure of it.
I wholeheartedly agree. I recall expressing a similar view that this would all pass back when your posts carried a much more dire tone. And actually, some of your earlier predictions about university drama have proven prescient, so it’s a little surprising to now hear you saying “they’ll get over it.” But none of that addresses the point in this thread about which I’m most interested, and that is the sudden toughening up and now zealous commitment to free speech by the “don’t hurt my feelings” crowd. All because a few Jews just want to study in the library in peace. Imagine having a problem with that.
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Perfect! 
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My Union Dues Are Being Used Against Israel
Jewish grad students at MIT already face antisemitism on campus. Their anti-Israel union won’t divert their dues to charity.
My dire predictions are still in place. Students will self-segregate and self-censor around classmates, which I personally think is a very sad outcome not consistent with the mission of the University, though you may disagree. Time place and manner restrictions will be enforced, but the vitriol level of the permitted protests will increase. Any form of productive engagement on campus will be lost, and both sides will be feel aggrieved and unsatisfied. And they will get used to it, pass their classes, and graduate.
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Then they will bring their divisive behavior to the workplace. Nice.
I haven’t see much sign of that yet; have you?
@roycroftmom There’s definitely been strife at some companies like google and Facebook. But yup, the self segregation is what I suspect will happen as well. We saw it on a much smaller scale with BLM - I observed that those who have ties or family in law enforcement really pulled themselves away from any conversations and sort of silo’d themselves. (Not that I blame them, the ACAB movement is extreme and must have been very upsetting for people who risk their lives in law enforcement)
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they should organize to de-certify the union and save dues. Simple.
I don’t disagree that self-segregation is not consistent with a mission of the university (I think the university has more than one mission). But this will pass. I guarantee it. People need to be reminded there is a war raging in Ukraine. The collective attention span of the American public, and especially that of the university set, is that of a gerbil. Something new and dramatic will be along soon to take its place, and trust me, the current outrage will be replaced by a new fashion.
In the meantime, some will be sad or hurt. Life goes on.
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