I had to push my daughter to visit schools her junior year. If I had waited for her to express interest in making visits, I might still be waiting, and she’s a college senior now. I wanted her to visit a variety of schools - large, small, medium, urban, suburban, etc., but she said she was interested in nothing but state flagships. So state flagships she saw. She went on her visits at times when she had a 3 or 4 day weekend but colleges were open - Columbus Day, the Wednesday before Thanksgiving, MLK Day and President’s Day. Even though she wasn’t gung ho about the college search at that point, I wanted her to get an idea for what she might like and not like, but without missing a ton of school. After those junior year visits, she was done. She did not want to go back to visit any of the schools she’d seen, or go on any additional visits, during her senior year. She applied to the schools she had visited, was accepted at all, picked one, and next visited the campus when she went for orientation. She has one semester left and has been very happy at her university, so I guess it worked out perfectly in spite of her lack of interest junior year. I will say that when senior year came around and her friends were scrambling to visit schools, my daughter was very happy that she had it done and out of the way already.
@LuckyCharms913 I guess it seems more rural to me because if you go out a bit further past the university there are some areas of farmland and even some vineyards! I thought maybe you skipped it because your son seemed to prefer a more urban setting.
Luckycharms, it seems like your son wants to bump to the next size of colleges, maybe 5000-10000 students? My daughter wanted a smaller college, 3000 or fewer, but she sort of fixated on one school of about 10,000. She’s very happy there and likes that she has more course selection, D1 sports (that she goes watch because they are free to students), club sports teams, concerts, and a wide variety of majors and classes offered. Even with a school that big often courses are only offered in the fall semester or only every other year. There are some big (120-200) lectures, but they always have a discussion section with 30 or so students. Most of her classes only have 20 students.
We agreed to hold off on any more college talk until his first SAT scores arrive next week. Then, he can choose some medium and large schools to take a closer look at over winter break (via website) and we’ll come up with the next visit list.
But it turns out that what S meant by “small” was the classrooms sized for 25-50 students. I assumed he meant the size of the campus overall, the size of the buildings, the number of students around, etc.–but no. Small class sizes are generally a selling point, but S likes the idea of lecture halls that hold 75 - 250 students. I suspect that’s because he can be anonymous and only have to participate during a recitation or discussion session with a TA or grad assistant.
Since even some disciplined students can find it a challenge to focus, take notes, and learn in a large lecture hall–plus it’s much easier to cut class when you think no one will notice–I am not thrilled with this preference. His grades this first quarter were much better but I don’t know if he will ever be a disciplined student. So we will keep looking at different options and hope that we can reach a compromise on what is “big enough.”
Both of my kids were very driven, excellent students, but they were very different when it came to college shopping. One went through one of the college guides, crossing out entire states (with hilarious comments), and circling others the summer before her junior year. The other had to be nagged and cajoled to look at even a few colleges by spring of his junior year.
On the one hand, this should be student-driven–it’s his choice, after all–but on the other, he doesn’t have the wisdom and experience to know how intense this process can be and how many doors get closed just because he didn’t take it seriously soon enough.
Sometimes, the kid is just scared, so the best thing to do is expose him to a few schools–start with state U even if he doesn’t want to go there–so that he can learn what he does want.
I don’t think that schools and professors care that much if students skip, even at small schools. It’s college, usually the babysitting and reminders and excuses are over. If the the prof cares, he takes attendance.
My kids don’t skip because they had me for a mother and unless they were coughing up a lung or bleeding, they went to school. They both still go to classes all the time (more than i did!). One is an athlete whose coach got a report that she’d missed 7 sessions of physics. DD had actually just gone to another section with the same prof and the sign- in was mixed up. Still, she had to get a note from the prof for the coach, and she won’t make that mistake again because it was a hassle and a little embarrassing. Personally, I love the ncaa and the coach and all the ‘stupid rules’ (as DD
calls them)because they are rules everyone should be following- go to class, study tables, no drinking before practice or games.
One thing about the big lectures is that if you do miss, often the class is available on a webcast or you can buy the notes at the bookstore. I had one such class back in the dinosaur days (no web) and I always bought the notes because I never knew what was going on and there were drawings of cells and synapses and my notes never looked like the ones I could purchase for $1. Bargain.
Luckycharms, that was one of my daughter’s reasons for wanting a large state flagship - she wanted the ability to fade into the woodwork if she so chose. She liked the idea of large lectures. She chose a school with over 30,000 undergraduates. Her class sizes first semester freshman year? 15, 18, 25, 35, 36, 75. That wasn’t what she had been expecting, but she decided all of those classes were OK. She later had some larger lectures (one as large as 200), and those were OK too. I think it’s really hard for them to know what they want in HS, and my daughter discovered that it was all good.
Glad that it went well for OP, but my first thought was…why does S have to go on a college tour before applying at all? I’d imagine that the vast majority of college-bound seniors don’t have the money or resources to go on a long-distance tour to see 3-5+ options of schools before they applied. I certainly didn’t. When I did visit colleges, it was largely during my senior year between September and January, when I’d already decided where I wanted to apply (and in one case for a scholarship weekend after I’d already been admitted) and only the ones that were within driving distance of my house. I have plenty of other first-generation friends from working-class backgrounds who were bundled off to OOS schools they’d never visited before because there’s no money in the budget for that.
I mean, yes, I get that visiting before hand could potentially help a student eliminate a school they’d otherwise apply to or apply to a school they’d otherwise eliminate. But is that worth forcing a student who is resistant to going?
The process doesn’t have to be “intense” and doors don’t have to close because you don’t go on a weeklong college tour. It all depends on the student. Obviously the students who are gunning for very specific schools or elite colleges have a more intense experience, but for the majority of average students who don’t have a college in mind and would be pretty happy attending a state regional…it doesn’t have to be super intense.
I would let him to attend at the UG that he wants and/or get in.
It looks to me that he would be better off stay at home and attend at the local college so that you are more aware of what is going on. Academics at colleges are much higher level than those AP’s in HS. And the effort that is enough for the HS to get by may not be enough at all at college. You will be primarily paying for his opportunity to step up his efforts at college Is he ready to do so? Even straight A kids from the top private HS’s have to step up in their efforts at college, otherwise, college become a waste of money, time and other family resources.
“he refused to get out of the car. I’m not kidding. He would NOT get out. Just had a pout fit like a four year old.”
If it’s any comfort, I hear this story all the time, even about otherwise cooperative and mature students. Teens have a lot in common with toddlers. It will pass.
^^ Yep.
“Mom, we can take the tour if you want. But I am NOT going to this school. It looks like a bunch of old cabins in the woods.”
So we never got out of the car. I called admissions from the cell phone, told them we wouldn’t be able to make the tour, and drove 3 hours home. Fortunately, we had seen a school he loved 20 miles away the night before.
“I don’t think that schools and professors care that much if students skip, even at small schools. It’s college, usually the babysitting and reminders and excuses are over. If the the prof cares, he takes attendance.”
At the college I’m attending now (as a 45 yo mom), they take attendance, and if you miss 4 classes, it’s an automatic F. I have to say it’s deeply annoying. I know how much I can miss (I currently have a 97 average), and the hand holding and mandatory hoop jumping through/indoctrination stuff at this particular college makes me feel like they don’t think I’m capable at all. It’s something I’ll be advising the kids to look at when they’re winnowing schools. The three hour online drug, sexual awareness and safety class that I was required to take before I could register for next semester was ludicrous for adult learners and there was no way to exempt it. Rigid, inflexible policy is something I’d say is a big negative for some colleges.
The online drug thing is now required at every school, I think for federal funding compliance. You might be surprised to learn there are 45 year olds who misuse drugs too, and don’t know that getting arrested for a drug crime can affect student loans and grants.
I had a law school professor who took attendance. You could miss 25% of the classes, and if you missed more you did not get credit for the class. We had lots of people who missed that much and received warnings. It was a class that met 4 days a week at 9 am, which was challenging for some. Most of the other professors didn’t care, figured you were paying for it and if you wanted to skip, you skipped, but there is a rule about attendance and this prof followed the rules.
My kids go to class. They went to class in high school, they go to class in college. They do not leave early for thanksgiving break, don’t skip on Fridays to have a long weekend, etc. The results of having a mean mother. They know I’ll know.
@LuckyCharms913 Too bad on St. Bonnie’s. That is one of the best B/B+ student schools in the east. The new business complex did not sway him or the new student sports center?
Did you visit University of Scranton?
What does he expect from a larger school?
@TurnerT He did like aspects of St. Bonaventure, including the new business school building. But since the schools he’s seen with his older sister are much larger (South Carolina, Pitt) and also urban, that’s his idea of what a college campus should look like. I wanted him to see some other options just so he realizes that they exist. Also, we live in the suburbs but spend a lot of time (vacation and just general leisure) in cities, so urban/suburban is his preference-- and St. B was pretty rural.
We may visit Scranton (day trip for us and so can be planned on short notice) but his class rank makes it unlikely that he would be eligible for any merit. Same issue with Siena, about which I’ve heard many good things. I think he may like Duquesne. Other schools that have come up during my research, but about which we know very little, are Seton Hall, St. Peter’s, Manhattan, Hofstra and Rider.
@luckcharms913 I would try Susquehanna, St. Michael’s and St. Anselm.
Seton Hall and Duquesne are good visits. The area around Seton Hall is terrible though. I live in NJ. If he is sensitivite about campus quality forget Manhattan as good a school as it is, the campus is a buzzkill and needs serious upgrading.
St. Michael’s is two miles from downtown Burlington and if he doesn’t like that I will faint. The campus shows like a new penny. Students ride the buses for free and the area buzzes with college students.
St. Anselm is in the Nashua-Concord corridor about an hour from Boston. It is also 60% female. Another lovely campus.
Visit Scranton anyway it is extremely nice.
If you’re open to Catholic schools and your son likes urban living and is interested in business, have you considered Loyola Maryland? (A+ Schools for B Students) It’s not right in the hub of the city, but not far away.
@TurnerT Thanks for the ideas in New England. I’ll do some research. I’ve heard that whichever Orange Seton Hall is in is awful, but it’s bigger than many of the other Catholic schools he’s qualified for (as is Duquesne). Do you know anything about St. Peter’s? When I was in college (30 years ago :() it had a decent reputation, comparable back then to St. Joe’s or Fairfield. But I suspect those two colleges have improved or stayed steady, whereas St. Peter’s may have dropped off a bit?
@3rdXsTheCharm I really liked Loyola MD when I visited with my D in 2013 (in fact, I have suggested it to a few CC posters). S is interested in business and I believe they are quite well regarded in that area, plus the new building is really attractive. Problem there is the price; with COA $60,000+ right now and no shot at merit, it’s out of our price range.
@LuckyCharms913 St. Peters is still around but would not be worthwhile to look at. Look at the Admissions data for the school.
What exactly is his issue with size? Seton Hall for example has 5300 undergrads but housing is not guaranteed even for freshman and only 40% of undergrads live on campus. St. Joes is not much different.
What exactly is the benefit of size to him? Does he realize he could be far from friends, classes, the library and the dining hall for example. I think the romance with very large schools starts to wear off with some kids when these things are discussed.
Good point about housing. I asked about that when we toured but hadn’t thought to look for it on websites. I guess off-campus might mean nearby student-type housing, or might mean a large commuter population, so will have to look for signs about whether a campus empties out on weekends or not.
That’s a shame about St. Peter’s. I was surprised that their admission stats are so much lower than schools that I thought were comparable. I am a big fan of the Jesuits and so had hoped that might be an option.