Colleges for the Jewish "B" student (Part 1)

Parents Forum
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<p>From Maryland or DC, take Amtrak to New Brunswick (Newark is a much smaller campus). I don’t think of the campus as dirty, although it is more spread out than I would like. Because it is around a city, there are the ethnic restaurants you want and I believe it has program for Asperger students.</p>

<p>The Rutgers forum on CC probably is pretty active.</p>

<p>Small/suburban usually means 50K, but maybe Mary Washington in VA? I know little about their business offerings. I liked Muhlenberg, but it is not cheap. If you don’t mind flying to Pittsburgh, perhaps Alleghenny, which was the subject of some Campusvibe reports? It should be pretty close to Pittsburgh, a good city, and perhaps cheaper than Muhlenberg.</p>

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<p>Have you been to New Brunswick and Alleghenny? What do you know about this program for Aspergers students? I am going to check this info. out. Thanks so much as I never thought of these schools before. Any details about these schools is greatly appreciated.</p>

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<p>Checked the web sites. New Brunswick is much too big and Allegheny does not have a Business school. It is a liberal arts school. Thank you for thinking of us.</p>

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<p>Alleghenny, no, but some very perceptive CC posters have and at least 1 wrote a Campusvibe report.</p>

<p>I have spent a lot of time in New Brunswick–theater, restaurants, comedy and rock clubs. My son played at the Rutgers’ basketball and soccer arenas–but I have spent no time at the academic areas, except for giving a lecture. My sons friends who are there like it. I heard about the program from someone I met, but know no details, although it may be discussed on the CC Asperger threads.</p>

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<p>Allegheny does not have a business school. Sorry, cross posted with mdcissp.</p>

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<p>Sadly, after 2585 posts by very hardworking people, the overall pool of good B student schools remains pretty small.</p>

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<p>Also, the NJ public schools will cost you (OOS for you) much much more than your MD instate options in my opinion.</p>

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<p>Yabeyabe - This is SOOOO true. D (with a 26 ACT and 3.6 WGPA) got into UDel, UConn and deferred at UMD (didn’t apply to Penn St). Waitlisted at Binghamton. Of course, she didn’t want to go to Bing anyway because of it’s upstate location and the perceived lack of the whole college rah-rah atmostphere (of course all her friends who are there now are having an amazing time plus great academics). After 2500+ posts, there are good suggestions here for Jewish B students to look at but, at the end of the day, you also have to consider your geography! (as if there aren’t enough variables to influence if a school is a “match” or not).</p>

<p>Regarding the reading issue, my D actually loved reading (for fun - nothing too “strenuous”) but comprehension/retention of school material was always a challenge (now she’s at college and I hope she’s putting in the time needed to compensate…). S - who has much better comprehension and retention - is a slooooow reader when it comes to books he has to read for school that he doesn’t like (currently plodding through “1984”). Just before we started talking about this issue here. I was thinking that I need to get him some counseling/tutoring on how to be a more effective reader (so it doesn’t take him all night). Just takes soooo long… I want to help him. Any ideas? He takes practice PSATs in October (he’s a soph) - curious to see how he does.</p>

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<p>You are all so right. There are many choices for A/A minus students, but really few great choices for B plus students, especially for parents who don’t want to pay $50,000 plus X 4 years.</p>

<p>For any kids not enjoying their assigned reading–buy Spark Notes at Barnes and Noble and/or look at Spark Notes for the book on line. Spark Notes summarizes key points.</p>

<p>I thought Rockville Mom and the crowd following this thread highlighted some great new schools to consider-Muhlenberg, Sushueqanna, Elon, York, Binghamton, Rutgers, Stevenson, University of Alabama and College of Charleston. </p>

<p>With the exception of the larger state schools, the smaller-medium size private schools are either too expensive and/or missing varied Business school option and/or active Hillel.</p>

<p>Then upon deciding to apply-the question of is OOS tuition worth it when have good in state option?</p>

<p>I wish I could find a medium size private school similar to USC that B plus students can easily get into.</p>

<p>As we end our search, please PM me and/or post here any other schools my son should apply to. Same criteria as the original Rockville Mom post: Must have good Business school, Hillel or Chabad, not be $50,000 a year.</p>

<p>I appreciate everyone’s efforts.</p>

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<p>I don’t see Muhlenberg as a school for B+ students. I think it has become more competitive than that. Sure , you have a shot…but I would say it is more for an A- range.</p>

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<p>Mdcissp: Did you ever consider UDEL for your son? It meets your criteria. It has the setting he prefers with restaurants in walking distance. It may not be work the cost difference over the in-state schools, but it seems worth consideration if he is applying to Binghamton. It’s a lot closer.</p>

<p>It is wierd how you can start out with tons of options, and then only find a few schools that truly meet your criteria. This thread has been very helpful because we all have the same goal of finding a school with some form of Jewish life. It’s been a little easier for my family because my daughter wants a school in the Northeast. I’m thankful that she has been very independent in her choices. Most of her friends want to go South.</p>

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<p>^^uskool: the stats you refer to are probably for students who apply RD; Muhlenberg does take a large % of their class ED if one is willing to do so; they have rolling ED (until 2/15) and will promise an “early read” of financial aid for those who want to do so…and from what I have heard both on CC and around these parts, they are right on the mark with that early read…actual on the generous side, in fact…</p>

<p>The students from both public and private schools here that attend Muhlenberg are more B/B+ students albeit with rigor of some honors and a couple of AP’s…sure there are also A- kids there, but it should stay on a “B” student thread IMO</p>

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<p>Thanks for bringing U Delaware again to my attention. I offered to take my son there this summer and he asks why U Delaware? Did you see this school and do you think it is similar to Towson? Maybe should visit soon. Please give more description of this school. How does it compare to Binghamton and Towson?</p>

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<p>Mdcissp: I don’t know much about Binghamton, but I have vistied Delaware twice, and a close friend’s daughter attends. It is similar to Towson in terms of size and campus feel. I think that Towson offers more “hand holding”, but that the students at Delware are stronger academically. The campus is very pretty with red brick buildings and lots of grassy areas. I think Newark is a very appealing college town. Main Street is adjacent to the campus with many blocks of stores and restaurants. This is a large business program, but I’m not sure if you can enroll as a freshman. It’s about 10% Jewish with a strong Hillel. Most of the kids who attend seem to love it.</p>

<p>There is Amtrak access, but it is easier to go North than South. There’s only one train a day from Newark to Baltimore or Washington. Trains stop every hour in Wilmington, but it’s 30 minutes in the wrong direction. It is an easy drive up 95. </p>

<p>I believe LINYMOM’s daughter is a freshman at UDEL. Maybe she can offer more insight.</p>

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<p>MD,
is your son willing to travel at all? University of Denver (my middle son attends there) has a lot of what you seem to be seeking…a very strong business school, a large Jewish student population with strong Hillel and Chabad on campus (beautiful new Hillel building), a very pretty campus in Denver ( a great city with excellent internship opportunities and all kinds of restaurants, sports, music scene etc.). </p>

<p>Denver is an easy flight from any where on the east coast. SuperShuttle delivers kids right to their dorms and the school does some private buses to the airport at holidays. The light rail is free for students–stops right on campus and takes the kids all over Denver, it’s very easy to use. The light rail is being expanded out to the airport but that won’t be completed for a few years.</p>

<p>I know there is a strong learning disabilities center but I don’t know specifically about support for Aspergers students. One of my son’s friends gets extensive help at the center for his LDs and I know his family has been very pleased.</p>

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<p>“You are all so right. There are many choices for A/A minus students, but really few great choices for B plus students, especially for parents who don’t want to pay $50,000 plus X 4 years.”</p>

<p>Sorry, don’t agree with this assessment. All students need to make trade-offs- even the 2400/4.0 GPA kids. But every time a parent tries to make suggestions on this thread, someone quickly shoots down the idea- class size too big, application too cumbersome, GPA requirement for the major too high, geographically undesirable, dorms too cruddy, academic reputation questionable and do the kids get good jobs when they graduate, etc. I think this thread highlights the need for parents and students to have an honest conversation about what’s affordable and where the kid can get admitted and thrive… and then start to triage. You will NOT find a small, nurturing, LAC type of school with small classes in a hip but “not dirty urban environment” which has accounting AND actuarial studies AND offers great internship/employment opportunities AND a great Hillel AND easy access to the train/bus/public transportation for kids with no cars AND modern dorms with air conditioning all for less than your EFC. 4.0 kids can’t find that 'cause it doesn’t exist. B+ students can’t find that because it doesn’t exist.</p>

<p>People- you and your kid are going to need to figure out what’s really important and then make some trade-offs. Having had my kids and a slew of my nieces/nephews graduate from a wide range of schools I have observed that class size, quality of dorms, and size of college are probably the most over-rated metrics when choosing a college. (YMMV). There is for sure a difference between a college of 1,000 total students and 40,000. But 3,000 vs. 5,000? 5,000 vs. 8,0000? 10,000 vs. 15,0000? Especially if those schools have grad programs or med schools in other cities, or vet schools 80 miles away or other satellite campuses? Your kid will never see those med students I promise. </p>

<p>And nobody wants to think about their kid in a lecture with 799 other kids all playing video games and texting each other. But the fact remains that there are huge lecture classes taught by world class professors at many of the top universities in the world and kids line up early to get a seat… so big size doesn’t mean bad, sometimes it means world class. (Psych 101 at Cornell got an article in the NY Times about how big it was and why students LOVED the professor so much.)</p>

<p>So something’s got to give. For my nickel, I’d worry less about prospective major (most of the parents who’ve posted on this thread have kids who have already changed their minds and college hasn’t even begun); I’d worry not at all about class size or school size; I’d worry more about affordability and overall academic strength. Even at the largest state flagships, most junior and senior classes are small seminars; most kids change majors at least once.</p>

<p>My two cents. For my kids/family members, convenient access to Jewish communal activities whether Hillel or other made a huge difference in how engaged the kid became at college, so that’s not something I would compromise (and taking a city bus or a taxi to a remote congregation once a month, or another college’s Hillel is not a substitute for an on-campus option where the kids meet other kids). But most 17 year olds haven’t a clue about most careers and professions, so I would take “prospective major” and class size and “the town is dirty” and the dorms are gross with a grain of salt.</p>

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<p>USC mid-size comps:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.usc.edu/admission/undergraduate/private/1011/FreshmanProfile2010.pdf[/url]”>http://www.usc.edu/admission/undergraduate/private/1011/FreshmanProfile2010.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Maybe check out Wake Forest for a smaller private with business and rah-rah sports.</p>

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<p>OK - Since you asked, here’s the rah-rah for UDel again. D applied to Towson also (and we visited) so I can give you our impressions.</p>

<p>As far as UDel, the campus is exactly what she wanted. It has a lot of green space, has the typical college Main Street (as momjr described) and is in suburbia (not rural, not urban - every store you can imagine and a mall within bus distance). The buildings look really collegiate. She thought it was exactly what a college should look like. She is in “university studies” right now (what UD calls “undeclared”) but really likes her advisor and, from what they told the parents all along, the advisement seems really good. Of course, you have to seek it out. There’s about 3300 per class so I’m sure not as much hand-holding as, say, a Muhlenberg. D has two small classes (English and Hebrew), two that are larger (50-100) as they are intro classes that fulfill gen ed requirements, and her First Year Experience class (also small). She doesn’t seem swallowed up (and while I was wrtiing this, she called and said she got her first college grade back today - an A on an English paper - yay!).</p>

<p>There is limited Amtrak service between NYC and Newark, but D wants to come home Columbus Day weekend (Fri-Sun) and it does work out for her sked. I bought the student advantage card ($50 for 4 years) so it will help with some savings. There’s excellent bus service also, which she will take for Thanksgiving (gets her closer to home). You can check out the transportation links on the UD thread (called “bus service”).</p>

<p>The Hillel is very active. D went to Freshman Fest and I see on her FB page that she planned to go to several Sukkot events (sushi in the sukkah, tie dye in the sukkah, etc.) Not sure how much she went to. They had Reform and Conservative services for the holidays - D went to Reform on Rosh Hashanah; she said there were many more people at Conservative. There were classes that day (although she is taking Hebrew and that class was cancelled, as it was last Thurs for Sukkot). She slept through Yom Kippur services (late night at ZBT the night before – does that sort of count for a Jewish experience?) – I had hoped she would make all services for the High Holy Days but she will have to make those decisions for herself now! She made Jewish friends at Freshman Fest (before move-in) and now seems to have a nice array of friends, mostly in her dorm. </p>

<p>With the long winter break, UD is huge on study abroad (even for freshman) in January and that was appealing to D also. She already went to a meeting to see about a trip to Egypt and Morrocco, but she didn’t have the prerequisite. I think she’s going to look into taking that class next semester. Hillel has in interesting community service project in Miami in January for a week - not sure if she will pursue although I suggested it. Up to her.</p>

<p>D’s scores were exactly average on our HS Naviance for UD. Academically, it seems like a great fit. Personality-wise, it seems like a great fit. It has the Greek life, but not too much, sports, but not too much, good mix from OOS (mostly from the northeast, but some from other places too).</p>

<p>As for Towson, D liked it too, but her stats were way above average admit on our HS Naviance so we looked at it as a safety. We didn’t get the official tour (a friend’s D who is a student there showed us around bc there were no tours that day), but the campus seemed nice. I thought there were too many students with cars (my personal bias). Nice mall withing walking distance! I don’t know a lot about the academics - I wanted my D to apply to the honors program, but she balked at the extra essay. Since D doesn’t know what she wants to major in, it seems to have a lot of choices and a decent Jewish population. There is local “buzz” about Towson for certain level students around here. D has a good friend there now - haven’t gotten the feedback yet - probably at Thanksgiving. This girl was an “on level” kid - did really well, but hardly any honors or APs. If D didn’t get in at other schools, we definitely would have gone back to Towson to get more info and seriously consider it. I can tell you that D would have preferred Towson to SUNY Albany!</p>

<p>If you have any other specific questions, ask away!</p>

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<p>Forgot to address the Binghamton part of this. We visited there too (wow, we are all on the same wave length).</p>

<p>To us, completely different campus than Towson and UD. Perhaps we didn’t explore the surrounding area enough though. Didn’t seem to have the college town right next to it, like UDel does. Very “upstate NY” to us and in the middle of nowhere – although others on this thread have pointed out the excellent resources in the area – they know more than we do, since we were only there for 1/2 day. We are coming from typical suburban Long Island, so remember that when you read our perspective. Bing is definitely rated higher for academics than Towson. My D has a close friend that got in to the UD Honors program and Binghamton – it was down to the two of them – and she chose Bing (definitely a better price from NYS!). I think that’s a helpful point though - she was accepted to UD Honors and got in to Bing (while my D was only waitlisted at Bing). My D has a good friend from Boston who also is going to Bing; I wish I knew about her academics in HS because I think that would be helpful to all of you from OOS (but I don’t).</p>

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<p>Howdy Y’all,
I recently moved so I’ve been quietly unpacking. I have still been reading this thread. I had to tell you that early yesterday morning when not sleeping a post came up about a new ACT score and I thought, wow I bet RM’s son has his I hope it went well! So there’s a post for that other thread… you know you’re on CC too much when…
Anyway RM congrats on the solid showing for the first go round Junior year! Also congrats to Shawbridge’s daughter.<br>
Rodney, when the discussion went to schools that have gone down in their rep, I immediately thought of SUNY Albany. As I recall, also in the horse a buggy days, it was a top SUNY school. Since I’m now in the southwest I wasn’t sure if my perception of the change was correct, I guess it is.
Levirum: I believe it was you who asked me before I disappeared about schools that provide scholarships based on standardized test scores with less regard for grades. I became somewhat aware of this when looking for scholarship money for S1 who had great scores. This is a couple of years ago so it took some thinking to recall. (S1 was of the mind that he didn’t want to go to any school that would really want him so we never explored this with much depth. ) Anyway, some schools that I have seen that provide scholarship money for strong standardized test scores for students whose GPA’s may not match the scores include, Baylor ( a school that probably no one on this thread is interested in) and some of the Texas State schools. (They match the scholarship money requirement with high scores and top 10 to 15% of their HS, a very Texan approach). I also remember that at the time I saw a CC post suggesting Googling scholarships and the SAT score. I tried this with a couple of scores but 1410 seemed to be a popular cutoff and more seemed to come up with that score than with other scores I entered. I also noticed that in some cases while 1410 was a cutoff for some scholarships other scholarships are sometimes offered at the same school with a lower cutoff. If any of you are interested you might give this a try. </p>

<p>As for the reading issue we have the same thing here. S2 was just diagnosed with mild ADHD and is beginning to try meds so we will see if that improves reading….Not that I’m suggesting that this is something that the rest of you should look into. There were many factors in S’s case, reading was one of them. I’m hoping that the help with staying focused will make things easier all around, we’ll see.</p>