<p>I know a student from NJ who attended Bing for a year and was very happy. This person transferred into an instate NJ public because it was less expensive than Bing OOS (student lived off campus in a house with others after transferring, which helped with costs).</p>
<p>mdcissp and ccc (answering your Q’s in no particular order),</p>
<p>I thought Hofstra seemed like a good option for S. He clearly does not want the small environment of an LAC, which he feels will be too boring and confined. (I visited Skidmore with D, who did want the intimacy of a small college.) The whole “being close to NYC” was definitely emphasized in the Hofstra presentation, a big plus for S. Another positive is that Hofstra makes it easy to take classes from the various schools; right now S is interested in both history and finance, and he can mix liberal arts courses with business courses. Housing is guaranteed for 4 years, and supposedly there is much advising and a good career center. IMO, its reputation falls below the top SUNYs (in answer to the money q), but there does seem to be a feeling that the school is expanding academically. Once you work your way into the inner quads, the campus is quite lovely; however, the surrounding area is sketchy, making this mom a little nervous. My S, of course, picked up on this and said, “I’ll be safer in the city!” </p>
<p>Marist College is trying to increase the diversity… a Jewish kid would feel more comfortable at the school today than in the past, but there’s no real Jewish vibe. The college presentation mentioned that there are no religion classes in its core curriculum; instead, everyone takes an ethics/philosophy course. It seemed like a friendly (and pretty) setting, and my S was happy to see that Poughkeepsie is not in the middle of nowhere (his biggest fear). If he really wanted to go to this school, the Jewish factor wouldn’t stop him (or me), as we are not religious, but I would probably be concerned.</p>
<p>Well, at least it’s a start, although I know to back off big time now. The only other city he’s interested in is Boston…who knows when we’ll have time for that!</p>
<p>Anyway, thanks for your interest…I will be following along and wishing the best for you all.</p>
<p>Very few from our hs apply to Kenyon. From what I know of it - very selective - small (about 1600 students) - kind of in the middle of nowhere. Absolutely beautiful campus - was featured n a recent list of most beautiful campuses in the world. I do see it as more of an “A” student school - not sure about a “B” student applying ED. This is definitely one that I would not only visit - but maybe do an overnight - because you really have to like the small size and rural location.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.kenyonhillel.org/[/url]”>http://www.kenyonhillel.org/</a></p>
<p>We know two couples with kids at Kenyon. One has graduated and they were very happy. They are Jewish and attended a Conservative synagogue, I think, but I don’t know whether the kid attended Hillel or whether that would matter to the parents. The other friends, Christian, have a kid there now and are equally positive.</p>
<p>I think someone asked about Adelphi? We visited last spring, only to the theater dept, but walked around campus and learned a lot about it in general. We met several students as well.</p>
<p>It is a lovely campus - an outdoor art park, garden and arboretum. We looked around Hofstra, too, and I would say Adelphi is much more attractive and in a more attractive area, with the same distance to Manhattan.</p>
<p>The people were very nice. It seems like a solid bet for a B student - my B+ kid was told she would be guaranteed scholarships. It has excellent programs and facilities. The students we met were bright, and while they were humble that they weren’t at a “top” school, they very proud of Adelphi. Lots of Jewish kids, looked like plenty of diversity in general. </p>
<p>Lots of commuters, but a definite residential presence, and said to be more so all the time. But for us I will say that our positive feeling was as much about the theater dept as anything, and that does tend to have more devoted students, more residential students, and more of an evening/weekend lifestyle. So our very good feelings are influenced by those particulars. I would say it would have the same feeling in any of the arts. The theater kids did say that they are very happy with their other academic classes, and many double major.</p>
<p>In comparing Marist to Hofstra, Marist is more residential and prettier (it overlooks the Hudson River)–but twice as far from NY by train and harsher in winter. Marist used to be Catholic–the only school I know which is in that category. It has major partnerships with IBM (which has a big presence there) and IBm may have preferred a nonsectarian school.</p>
<p>Poughkeepsie, despite the presence of IBM, Marist and Vassar, plus some long range NYC commuters, has some troubled areas. Marist kids we know are happy there; no Hofstra reports yet. Hofstra has a much larger Jewish presence, but I would be surprised if there are issues at Marist except for someone wanting a more active Hillel than they have. The northeast, which is the source of most Marist kids, tends to have few areas with a single dominant religious group and kids tend not to have strong stereotypes. I have met Jewish kids who had excellent experiences at St. Josephs, Fordham, Villanova, Georgetown, etc.</p>
<p>One look at Boston on a weekend outside of the dead of Winter and 90% of kids will think it is paradise–it has so many college kids at Faneuil Hall; Harvard Square; along the Charles, etc, that I felt old there in law school!</p>
1 Like
<p>Hi Emmybet:</p>
<p>That was me who mentioned Adelphi. I happen to have friends that live in Garden City, where the school is located, and the husband went to that school many years ago… they took us for a tour of the school just to show us where he went, however my S1 is a pretty solid A student and he didn’t put that school on his list…however since my S2 is more of a B/B+ student, perhaps we would consider it for him in a few years, who knows? Anyway, I thought it was a very pretty college. Yes, they do have commuters, but seem to have several dorms there too! Don’t know the ratio of commuters versus on-campus, but I would not rule it out for that reason. The surrounding town was lovely.</p>
<p>I’m not sure if it has what psychmom’s son wants, but I mentioned it because they told me it’s a pretty quick train ride into NYC…they even have a train stop right there near the school! I don’t know much about Hofstra…</p>
<p>We did look into Georgetown for S1 last year and ruled it out almost immediately when I found the hillel to be tiny and the mention of crosses hanging in many classrooms, not for us! :)</p>
<p>It’s funny how Boston is always considered such a great “college” town but when you actually look at a list of the schools there the choices get difficult. It narrows down to several famously great schools for A students (I don’t need to list them), and lots of schools for B students with a specific need or focus (Babson, Bentley, Emerson, Suffolk, and so on). BU is practically the only match-ish school with a broad educational offering, and along with Northeastern it’s harder to get into all the time. Several schools are great for business, and there are some for the arts, for tech, for education. Some all-women’s schools. But to be in Boston or at least on an easy commute is getting pretty hard for a liberal arts kind of B student. It surprised me, even though I know Boston very well and figured it would be a gold mine of colleges.</p>
<p>I thinnk Boston’s rep had a lot (not everything, obviously) to do with BU, NE, BC and Holy Cross becoming much more selective. I agree it has not turned a former C student general school into a B student school, although I have heard people praise Endicott.</p>
<p>Clark is not very far away and a good school (3 kids from last year’s B-B+ thread went there), although the neighborhood is more gritty than some like.</p>
<p>I donot recall the distance from UMass to Boston. the various RI schools are probably a shorter ride to Boston than Marist is to NY.</p>
<p>UMass-Amherst is 90 minutes from the western Boston suburbs and closer to 2 hours to downtown Boston depending on traffic. No train service, only bus.</p>
<p>I think Boston is a great college town because it is indeed a place that kids love to come. Harvard Square is jammed with kids on weekends. It is fun. My kids go/went there regularly. Lots of concerts in Boston. As college became more competitive, a lot of the Boston schools have become hard to get into. Northeastern used to be pretty easy to get into; now apparently not. Below is a list of colleges in the Boston area.</p>
<p>[Boston:</a> Colleges and Universities, Student Life](<a href=“http://www.searchboston.com/boston_directory/Education/Colleges_and_Universities/]Boston:”>http://www.searchboston.com/boston_directory/Education/Colleges_and_Universities/)</p>
<p>It isn’t completely comprehensive (includes UMass Amherst but not Amherst College, Hampshire, Smith or Mount Holyoke from the same list; excludes Clark or WPI and maybe other schools in the Worcester area, plus UMass Lowell which is strong in engineering, UMass Boston and UMass Dartmouth). Here’s a list of institutions in the state: [List</a> of colleges and universities in Massachusetts - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colleges_and_universities_in_Massachusetts]List”>List of colleges and universities in Massachusetts - Wikipedia).</p>
<p>Lots of these do look special-purposey (have humanities but not sciences, focus on education and social work, etc., only admit women). But, there are Northeastern (if that is still in the B or B+ range), Endicott, Stonehill, My wife taught a class at Endicott this year and was impressed at how well-prepared, bright and eager the Endicott students were (at least those she met). They also just built a beautiful arts building. I recall meeting another parent who had a kid at Stonehill and was very happy. northeastmom mentioned that Boston schools are at the high end of prices and I don’t know what they do for financial and merit aid. The only schools ShawSon applied to don’t give merit aid and ShawD is only applying out of the country.</p>
<p>By the way, has Skidmore been on this list (not for Boston) or has it gotten hard to get into as well? Clark is not in Boston, but I second yabeyabe’s comment – It is an excellent choice for B-B+ students (better substantively than most).</p>
<p>Emmybet has a good point about Boston colleges. My daughter loves Boston, but the only schools that fit her needs and abilities are BU and NE. There schools are worth considering for B+ students with good test scores. I find Boston to be much more appealing for college students than NYC, but I guess it’s a matter of taste.</p>
<p>We visited UMass in the spring. It has a reputation as an ugly campus, but my daughter liked it. The buildings are somewhat ugly, but the campus is nice with lots of grass, tress and ponds. The kids seemed happy and down to earth. Amherst is a nice college town with restaurants and shopping. The five college consortium allows students to take courses at highly regarded LACs. Shuttle buses run between the 5 colleges. I think that there is a Hillel and reasonable amount of Jewish life on campus. I know a boy from my neighborhood went on a birthright trip with a group from the school. It’s not a good choice for a kid who wants an urban experience. It sounds like kids might go to Boston or NYC once or twice a semester.</p>
<p>I know there is a new separate thread regarding this film - but just wanted to mention it here as well. Here’s an article from yesterday’s Washington Post about reaction to the film after several screenings in this area.</p>
<p>[url=<a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/09/AR2010100900351.html]washingtonpost.com[/url”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/09/AR2010100900351.html]washingtonpost.com[/url</a>]</p>
<p>I have not yet had a chance to see it - but would like to do so. It hits home for me in particular as I struggle with S2 and my dilemma about how much to push him - or do I just let him be.</p>
<p>We did have time for some calm conversations over the weekend. DH’s perspective is that he was not a great student himself - yet he has a decent career - has found a career path that he is reasonably happy with and that I need to back off, for the most part. S2 says he is working hard and does not want/need any additional help. He is satisfied with his grades. And, I have not heard back from the English teacher.</p>
<p>We have all agreed that S2 will take the ACT again in February - just looking for a 28 - we’ll be satisfied with that. He has agreed that I can work with him - particularly on the reading section - in the weeks leading up to the test. </p>
<p>So, while I remain a little frustrated with the situation - I also am taking the words of the article to heart - I do not want to ruin my relationship with S2 over a C in English - or in any other subject, for that matter.</p>
<p>Very wise words, rm. I’ve had my moments of to-be-involved-or-not-to-be-involved, many times, too.</p>
<p>All of us with B students know there will be times when our perspective on what they do and how they do it (and when) is severely challenged. </p>
<p>I did forget that your S is a junior when I made my comments, and I do hope you at least get to talk to the teacher at some point, for your own sake. Last year when D2 was a junior she really did work through many of her rough patches, but her deficits hung on well into 1st semester. We struggled with her defensiveness and wanting to be independent in moving forward (or not!!). But she did much as your S is doing, and by the end of the year actually made some significant changes. </p>
<p>One parallel with your situation - her Achilles’ heel is science. She always takes Honors classes but could never seem to do well. Last year she took AP Bio. It was rough all year. She did talk to the teacher and tried to work it out. But she struggled and could barely get a B-, and embarrassingly got a 1 on the AP test. So there was no happy ending there - EXCEPT this year rather than not take science (which we said would be OK - easier to say than with English) nor take another AP class, she went to Honors Chem. Regular Chem is actually too easy even for her at our HS. But after stretching, and still feeling like a failure, with the AP, she’s finding this class kind of fun, and it’s been an ego boost that it actually is easy at times.</p>
<p>So from year to year it’s a learning experience in many ways.</p>
<p>RVM – Your story sounds like my story. Mine has a happy “ending” and I think your’s will, too.</p>
<p>My s matured so much between is junior and senior year of high school. He struggled (in math) and had no interest in thinking about, talking about, or visiting colleges. I think the pressure to “grow up” was great and he just wasn’t ready yet. He was a late bloomer and has totally taken on college in a way I never would have guessed, back in the fall of his junior year. It was hard for me because I had such high hopes and deep worries, that had everything to do with me and very little to do with him. My husband, too, has been very successful without a traditional college experience (took 17 years to complete his BA.) He helped me back off and that did “save my relationship” with my son. S also got a “fast food” job and saw, first hand, what happens to people who have little education and limited choices.</p>
<p>Even in the fall of his senior year, my s was less that eager to embrace the application process. But as I backed off, he took the lead and it has worked out so well. Now, I’m gearing up for my daughter (sophomore). She can’t wait to go to college! But if her grades don’t improve, I may have to start a “Colleges for Jewish “C” students” forum. (My mantra “late bloomer late bloomer.”</p>
<p>Some notes about SUNYBing/CofC: On Friday, my s returned home from CofC for fall break with 5 friends, one of whom was from the Boston area, B student, Jewish. He had attended Bing his freshman year and then transfered last year to CofC. He loves it. Said that Bing was too cold, not diverse enough (too many kids from MA, NY, NJ, Penn, etc). </p>
<p>I’m not sure this example means anything about the two colleges, specifically. I’m relating it because there has been discussion about these two schools. I think it shows that one reason some schools, especially those that have a high number B students, have a lower graduation rate is because B students may not be attracted/attached to the academics of a college as much the environment. </p>
<p>Funny side note: Our guest was wearing a CofC Hillel Hanukah Celebration t-shirt. Apparently, Hillel has sponsored a huge Hanakah party in Marion Square last year. On the back of the shirt was the logo for the sponsoring Grocery Store Chain. Yes, Piggly-Wiggly, yes, a big, smiling pig. The kids loved the irony.</p>
1 Like
<p>Sop14, thanks for the UMass Amherst info. In addition to Endicot and Stonehill, I recall Wheaton/MA getting some attention from B+ kids last year. As Shaw’s wife found out, small B student schools are often underrated.</p>
<p>UMass draws a lot of OOS kids with its rep for relaxed kids, admissions hurdles and drug enforcement. It is not a big sports school. </p>
<p>Momjr is right that even with Boston as a kids’ mecca and being 2 hours away, kids on vibrant campuses often will go to nearby cities much less than they anticipate–the city is a lure and kids do not know how much fun they can have on campus. </p>
<p>Re Boston vs. NYC, different kids–and adults–will make different choices, just as they would if we added DC, LA, San Francisco, etc to the mix. NYC is a much larger city, which will scare some people. Kids interested in theater, finance, fashion, mass media, music or dance will find vastly more opportunities in NYC, but Boston has much more of a collegiate feel and lots of first rate cultural institutions, just not nearly as many.</p>
<p>Yes, Skidmore is a very tough admit for a B+ girl; boys will find it a little easier.</p>
<p>yabeyabe, I have heard the same thing about Wheaton. It’s hard for me to alter my impressions with the times. When I was a grad student at Harvard, one of my undergrad friends would invite me to parties, especially when he wanted to visit local women’s colleges. At the time, it was apparently a big thrill for women at Wheaton and Pine Manor (sort of a finishing school in reputation then affectionately known as Pine Mattress) to date Harvard guys and a number of those were extremely eager to make sure visiting Harvard guys had a good time. In both cases, the institutions seem to have really changed. Wheaton now looks like a very solid school, though with a pretty high female to male ratio if I recall correctly. And Pine Manor said, “How are we going to compete by becoming yet another woman’s college gone coed? Instead, what we’re going to do is offer to young women who in earlier eras couldn’t have gone here an opportunity to get a first class education.” It seems like a smart organizational strategy (if you can get the endowment to fund it) and it seems to be working. Nonetheless, I still have a hard time connecting the Wheaton of my memory with the good school it is now (who knows, maybe it was a good school back then but it didn’t seem like it). Somehow, Pine Manor has turned the corner in my mind, perhaps because I only visited there once.</p>
<p>Shaw, the excellent Wheaton students may have been in the library when you visited, or did not like parties where visiting Ivy boys assumed the girls would be thrilled to be in their presence. I never went roadtripping in college or law school, assuming (probably correctly) that my Ivy status did not compensate for my shyness or budget wardrobe. </p>
<p>At both Penn and Yale I found that many college kids who achieved Ivy admissions assumed that students from less prestigious schools were much less smart and the results of the college admissions process would be repeated throughout their lives. As both my parents had commuted to public colleges but were smarter than me, I was skeptical. Later, at Yale law, the student body of 500 came from well almost 200 colleges, showing that smart kids were to be found well beyond the Ivies and every year I enjoyed watching the snotty undergrads finding their future was not so certain.</p>
<p>Race to Nowhere</p>
<p>RVM, thanks for the trailer–it could have been shot in my town! I think Stillnadine and Emmy have the same healthy, longterm perspective you do and that you rson and Still’s daughter will both be fine.</p>
<p>Tons of kids who are not HS academic whizzes do just fine in life, when people skills and emotional intelligence start trumping SAT skills. Many more bloom in college, when the busy work assignments fade–or the kids simply mature academically.</p>
<p>Not to be (too) repetitive, but for people worried their child is a late bloomer, or somewhat of a slacker, I would steer (if possible) the child away from schools best known for a party atmosphere or which feature large freshman classes or not getting into a desired major if freshman grades are below par.</p>
<p>Freshman year is a huge transition for so many kids in so many ways–sharing a room with a stranger; teachers who expect much more original thought and and more sophisticated writing and thinking; no parent to tell you to study instead of accepting the invitation to stay up late… Some kids need a larger margin of safety than others.</p>
<p>We all want to give our kids exactly what they want, and we know that often means the opposite of what we push them to want. I see lots of Facebook postings by freshmen raving about frat parties and post-football game beer blasts; I know I will never see one raving about a small class devoted to teaching how to write like a college student. But I know which is better for kids who have not learned it yet.</p>
<p>yabeyabe2, you are undoubtedly right about the self-selection at Wheaton. I of course only saw the one group.</p>
<p>As wonderful as Ivy folks think they are, there are many smart people all over the place and many ways to be successful that don’t track through the Ivies. Entitlement has ceased to be an effective long-term strategy, though it probably was before the 70’s. </p>
<p>Like you, I didn’t come from an entitled background, unlike the friend who brought me to those parties (who has now made a lot of money and become an orthodox Jew). In college, I found that the kids from prep schools were better educated on average than the public school kids, but that the public school kids were on average smarter. Nonetheless, there was a big contingent of prep school kids. And, at the time, I could see kids from well-connected families who got much better jobs and positions than one would have predicted given what they, on their own, seemed to offer the world. I still see the importance that the reputation of the school and the connections have for the anointed. But having an advantage and taking advantage of it are two different things.</p>
1 Like