Colleges for the Jewish "B" student (Part 1)

Parents Forum
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<p>I am asking myself many of these questions. As EA deadlines loom, and the Common App essay isn’t written yet, let alone the supplements, I’m wondering if this means she isn’t as “into it” as she should be. But on the other hand I don’t want to hold her to that kind of intense standard. If she needs a little hand-holding to do this Herculean task - AP classes, ECs, play rehearsals, apps, being a good person, helping her exchange student/sister, etc. is it so awful if I make some lists and handle a few tasks? </p>

<p>I have no answer. I’m assuming I’ll know my limits and will put my foot down if I feel I need to. Also I know that if she can’t handle it, she just won’t do it. For example, a school she really should apply to EA has a very early deadline and a very difficult supplemental essay. If she can’t pull it off, I guess she isn’t ready for or interested enough in getting the early answer (or possibly the higher chance of admission). That part is up to her.</p>

<p>In the next week or two I’ll lower the boom about a couple of things that really will jeopardize her changes of fulfilling her dreams, but I won’t do that with everything. I’m also aware that due to my taking over some of this process - gathering info, making schedules - she may be in the dark about what’s necessary.</p>

<p>I won’t say I’m to blame, but I will admit that if I haven’t said “You can’t do ABC until you’ve done XYZ by a certain date,” and it’s been my agreed upon role to know those deadlines, it’s not fair to accuse her of a lack of urgency. On the other hand, if she REALLY wants these things maybe she shouldn’t have let me take over that role. </p>

<p>But we’re all only human. I do think that this is something of a proving ground. I once heard someone say about their child, “I help them with the homework, I correct it and help them fix their errors, I make sure it’s in their backpack - I don’t understand why they can’t do the simple task of making sure they hand it in!” Fast forward - kid flunked out of college the first time. Is now living at home and restarted at a local school. They’re doing well, but maybe never will be the type to be very “independent.”</p>

<p>While I don’t see my kid this way, I do think sometimes that if she needs too much help achieving “her” goals, that maybe they aren’t the right goals. We’re trying to keep a balance in that. I know she’ll end up at a great school and very happy in the long run. Whether she ends up across the country or near home, at one of a very broad set of choices - that remains to be seen, depending on what she shows she’s really ready for.</p>

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<p>Emmybet- interesting thoughts! My d is always more than willing to delegate to her type A mother. Sometimes I think that the fact that she is so laid back in approaching deadlines is a direct result to the fact that I am hyper vigilant about them. I have been desperately trying to back off this year as I am acutely aware that she will be on her own next year…yet still I hear myself asking her if she has remembered her gym clothes or her homework…it is almost like I can’t help myself!!! To her credit she gets rightfully upset at me for reminding her of these things. My goal is for ME to continue to back off so that she learns to sink or swim on her own.
That said…she asked me to help keep her on target with the applications…I did so, helping her with clerical matters. Did NOT help her with essay at all except to brainstorm ideas with her months ago. She wrote it. I read it once and told her to have a teacher proof it. Essay done, apps in…except for one supplement. Not certain honestly if it would have happened this quickly if she hadn’t asked me to help with clerical tasks. However, I think each student and his/her family has to come to the balance that is right for them. I have told her that I certainly hope that when she is applying to graduate schools that my only involvement will be to say congratulations when she is accepted!!!</p>

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<p>i think it is best to do any necessary line drawing up front, before applications are filed, rather than to just hope you rhcild does not get into that party school or changes their mind about football bein gmore important than academics.</p>

<p>And do not depend on a GC to help–my son’s GC’s said, in a patronizing tone that my son should make all the decisions on his own. I replied, “You are saying I should leave a $200,000 investment entirely up to him; how much of YOUR money would you be willing to have him invest for you?” </p>

<p>Then again, I know a lot of parents who let their kids go wherever they wanted, all the while bemoaning, for example, that the OOS flagship with the better party rep cost $20K a year more than the instate flagship. Frankly, the nonJewish parents I know tended to be much less indulgent.</p>

<p>Emmy, I know the dilemma of whether to do work for the child; fight with the kid to get it done opn time; or pay $ to outsource it. Every family has its own right answer, but should remember that, in less than a year, that child who may not now be deemed able to get 10 applications out on time, is going to be deciding on his or her own when to go to the doctor; what courses to take; when to start that midterm paper; when to ask the teacher for help; and how much sex, drugs and alcohol to have.</p>

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<p>Very well said, Yabe. I agree that the student needs to own the process. On the other hand, there is so much at stake here that I think it’s fine for parents to help with some of the administrative tasks and make sure the kids meets deadlines. Right now I’m trying to avoid nudging my daughter to finish her essays so she can submit her early applications. I spoke to some parents this weekend who admitted to writing their son’s essays. Other parents have set up the accounts and typed in all the information.</p>

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<p>There is no need to pressure for ED applications. I also think # of applications should be limited. If your kid is not ready to finish his/her applications, then wait until they are ready.
Main thing is to know the deadline of in state safety school(s) and be sure those one or two applications are in by the deadline. Everything else is just extra work. If your kid really wants the extra schools, they will do the work to make it happen.</p>

<p>I also thought the common application was too much work. Just try to find an easy application that your kid can do. Perhaps your kid will be motivated by Thanksgiving or winter break.</p>

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<p>I like the concept of being the kid’s assistant or secretary - keeping track of deadlines, organizing some paperwork, etc., - as long as the meat of the project - the essays and apps - are the child’s “work product”. The workload of senior year - between classes, ECs and college apps - can be overwhelming. It’s an emotional year as well - between the anxiety of the college process and the fear/excitement of leaving home and going off to college. I feel it’s fine for parents to help - and I really don’t criticize parents who do some of the apps - it’s basically time-consuming data entry. I do draw the line at the essays, however. They need to reflect the student’s voice. An essay written by a parent is going to sound like an essay written by a parent - my guess is that an experienced adcom is going to know the difference between the writing style and vocabulary of a teen and that of an adult - so that’s something I would try to avoid.</p>

<p>And proving my point - there is another thread with a senior asking if people know what a Bop-It is because he wants to reference it in his essay - now what adult would come up with that?</p>

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<p>Wow, lots of entry’s since I sent my comments this afternoon. I agree very much with yabeyabe’s and rockvillemom’s comments. I think it’s really important to give the child guidance, but a sense of ownership. Somehow my S1 always gets things done…we have opposite styles…I like things done ahead of time, he works well under pressure at the last minute, but always delivers. I’m realizing all the nagging I’m doing is going directly in one ear and out the other!</p>

<p>He completed ED app. in the middle of September and sent it in. (worked on it all of August)Next came EA app. Done. Yesterday he completed his Priority app. Done. Now he’s working on his RD essays, and hopes to complete 1 school per weekend. 10 schools in total, but really hoping for ED to come through, match school but very tough to get into.</p>

<p>I personally would not like the idea of having a consultant work with my S. Even though it’s a bit stressful at times, it’s an experience I would not want to give up.</p>

<p>The ideas for his essays have all been his own. I have corrected some minor wording issues but as RM said, the meat of the essays are all his.</p>

<p>HollieSue: Is this your d1 or d2 you’re talking about?? I ask because she sounds like my S2. I’m so glad I will have experience with researching colleges before he is ready for college…however they do grow and mature a lot each year…glad my boys are also 3 1/2 years apart! I’ll gladly take the much needed break in-between!</p>

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<p>Rockvillemom: I think your description of the parent as assistant makes a lot of sense. We’ve helped print out forms, organize a spreadsheet with dealines, and with proofreading. I don’t really understand why my daughter can’t seem to finish things up. She’s not ambivalent about going to college - she’s been researching and discussing it for over a year. She is overwhelmed with school work. She is taking AP classes for the first time. The good news is that she really likes the classes and is enyoying the challenge. In the past she dropped a course if it seemed too hard. She always gets things done and I’m sure she’ll meet the deadlines, but I think she’s making it more stressful than necessary.</p>

<p>On a happy note, my older daughter was accepted to a Birthright trip for winter break. It’s her third try and she’s very excited. We’ve learned that it’s much easier to get onto a trip organized by your own college. It’s also a great chance to meet other Jewish kids from your school.</p>

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<p>My D was adamant about finding an ED school and getting the whole thing over with. We started early and visited a lot of colleges, even going back to a few of them where she attended classes in her field of interest. She was able to create her own essay; in it, she explained why her nickname at school is The Egg (this I did not know). She brought the essay to her English teacher who fine-tuned it. She had taken all necessary tests in her junior year, and had back-up plans if the ED thing didn’t work out.</p>

<p>In contrast, my S wants and needs more time. He is just beginning to wake up to the whole process. (The PSAT this weekend was a real eye-opener.) He does not want to go the ED route, and thus far, he’s been pretty resistant about visiting schools. I know he will require more parental support to help him with applications and timing of tests. I know I can’t be too pushy as to overwhelm him, but I will have to put more input in the process than I had to with my D.</p>

<p>Different kids…different needs.</p>

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<p>CCC-I am referencing my one and only D…though many of her behaviors are more closely aligned with a S!!! ha ha!!</p>

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<p>My kids remind me of Lucy and Linus from the Peanuts cartoon!</p>

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<p>omg…we can definitely start a new thread on children’s personalities, their birth order and their style of getting things done!</p>

<p>However, this thread was started for the jewish “b” student, which is an outstanding topic of discussion. I, for one, am so glad to have found this thread, RM, because it hits home on so many levels. </p>

<p>Also, it’s really been interesting learning about different schools and areas of the country!
It also has helped reinforce this whole college process…helping to make sure we are doing things in some sort of order…reassuring to know I’m “normal” in thoughts & feelings!
(also helps in my case having an older sister whose children are currently both in college…) </p>

<p>Like psychmom, we started early and did all the touring and testing before senior year…that’s me, though, planning ahead…however I’m sooo glad we did it that way. Growing up with children is stressful!! :)</p>

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<p>D and I have decided that I am the “project manager”. Basically, I keep track of all of the information and she does all of the work. I will make sure all deadlines are met, but she will have the responsibility for doing the applications and writing the essays. We have been visiting schools and she has been the one to email schools for information, etc. </p>

<p>I would never write my D’s essays or fill out an application for her. Actually, she would never let me write an essay for her, she is a much better writer! I don’t help my kids with homework and haven’t since they were in about 3rd grade. Every once in a while they ask me to look something over and I will. When my kids gets into college it will be on their own merits not mine. </p>

<p>I think as a parent it is our role to advise and guide, not to do for them.</p>

1 Like
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<p>Oooh - project manager - I like it. I’ve been promoted from secretary or assistant! :)</p>

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<p>Project manager is even better. I think I need to schedule a meeting for later today.</p>

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<p>I’m a project manager too :)</p>

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<p>Have we discussed this school yet? It has moved to the must visit list mostly due to tuition and great potential for merit money. From our high school, a true low B, high C student is getting accepted with low SAT scores as well.</p>

<p>Academic programs jumping out - Institute of Technology. Thoughts?</p>

<p>Kids we have known “love it!” and the party scene is of concern (but truthfully at all schools it is a concern). Has anyone actually visited? Cross off their list…because?? What would be a true comparison to WVU?</p>

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<p>Hi Cherryhill - I did bring it up as a possibility for S2 a few weeks back - and was discouraged by the responses I got. The consensus was strong party school - also something odd about the physical layout of the campus - I can’t recall exactly what it was but it did seem problematic. The weather was also a concern for us. If you visit - please post your impressions.</p>

<p>From our large public hs - last year - 17 applied - 13 were admitted and 3 are attending. Average accepted GPA was a weighted 3.25 and a 1050 SAT/23 ACT. So - truly a safety school for a B student.</p>

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<p>NORTH BETHESDA, Md. (MMD Newswire) September 1, 2010 – Oy Vey, It’s Time to Apply: A Cultural Guide to Colleges for Jewish Parents by Jerome Ostrov offers a Jewish cultural perspective on the college application process.</p>

<p>“I have researched practically every college on the eastern seaboard and the recognizable ones elsewhere - colleges whose names will at least get you beyond the gag state at any cocktail party, school event or boring bar or bat mitzvah reception,” says Ostrov.</p>

<p>In addition to Ostrov’s profiles of more than 120 colleges that are popular with Jewish students, Oy Vey, It’s Time to Apply also seeks to provide Jewish parents with a balanced perspective on the application process as well as insightful tips on helping kids get into the right school. In addition, Oy Vey, It’s Time to Apply strives to guide the reader through the rich history of Jewish academic achievement in America, while providing tips on preparing kids for their college years. It also analyzes the important steps in the application process and contains a supplement titled “Survival Guide on Religion, Judaism and Israel for the First Year Jewish College Student.”</p>

<p>“I have the mindset of a Jewish parent of college age kids because I am one,” says Ostrov. “I have gone through the college application process three times recently. And as I have worked my way through the college thicket with my own kids, I have counseled many other families.”</p>

<p>Oy Vey, It’s Time to Apply: A Cultural Guide to Colleges for Jewish Parents is available for sale online at Amazon.com and other channels.</p>

<p>Has anyone seen/read this book?</p>

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<p>My husband graduated from WVU a looong time ago and we were married when he attended. The campus is spread out with two distinctive campuses connected by a light rail system. It was a great college for him and a good choice for a B student that wants a large public with amazing school spirit for sports. I think there are as many oos students as there are in-state. That said, none of our kids applied there and we didn’t encourage them mostly because we didn’t want to pay oos tuition and there wasn’t anything there that we couldn’t get in-state. No idea about the Hillel’s or Jewish population.</p>