<p>D has an application pending at Allegheny (a good school for B students). Just thought folks might be interested to know that today she received a Hanukkah card from their Hillel! I thought it was a nice touch (of course D could care less…)</p>
<p>It’s wonderful to get good news. I encourage everyone who posts on and reads this thread to share all of your good results so that we can congratulate you and wish you Mazel Tov. It’s fun to share good news.</p>
<p>But it’s probably even more important to share bad and disappointing news. Two years ago on December 15th, my older son was deferred from his dream school. It was one of the most devastating, heart-breaking experiences of my life. This was a school he had planned to attend all through high school - and as a very high stat kid - we thought it realistic. We were wrong. Looking back, there are a lot of steps in that journey I would do differently if I had them to do over. But by far - the biggest change I would make - would be to not go through it alone. When our kids hurt - we hurt. Add to that guilt, stress, worry - let’s just say the winter of 2009 was a rough one - and I don’t mean the weather. It would have been more bearable if I had some sympathetic ears - and yes - cyber ears count.</p>
<p>So - I truly hope everyone gets great news this December. But if you don’t - please let us help you. Whether you want concrete advice and suggestions - or just people to listen and sympathize - this is a good place to start. Good friends are there for you in good times and in bad - and I like to think that is the type of community we are creating here.</p>
<p>Ok, so here is my 2 cents on this for what it is worth. We do not come from a very Jewish area (the teachers schedule tests on the High Holy Days!) but there are enough Jews that my kids do not ever feel isolated and the population in general is very open to differences. So, my kids do not understand why it is important to us for them to go to a school that has a large Jewish presence with an active Hillel. They do not think that they will join Hillel, and they might not. But, the presence of an active Hillel tells me that the student population can support a full-time Hillel. Personally, I do not want my child to be the one to educate the bible belt, I don’t want them to feel singled out, and I don’t want them to be a target of missionaries (because converting us is one of the ways they believe they get into heaven). I also hope that my sons marry nice Jewish girls some day and I think the odds of them meeting a nice Jewish girl in some of these schools that are interested in us increasing their diversity numbers are somewhat diminished. Isn’t the point of this thread to find schools where Jewish kids are thriving and accepted as people vs accepted into the school? There are so many schools out there that are accepting of Jewish kids why put them in a place where they will have added stress? Personally, I am not even considering a school that doesn’t have Hillel dedicated full-time to the school and only that school and at least a 20% Jewish population. I don’t want them forging new ground. My husband and I vetoed many schools on the basis of too few Jews on campus. Like I said, just my 2 cents!</p>
<p>Hi - 2flipper2 - you are absolutely welcome to contribute your two cents and I completely respect your position. I may not agree with it - particularly the 20% Jewish rule - but I respect it. One of the reasons I started this thread was that I was getting frustrated trying to identify colleges that had a decent-sized Jewish population and an active Hillel - but that would admit a “B” student. I think it’s a lot easier for “A” students - if you look at Ivy League schools, Brandeis, Vanderbilt, etc. - there are plenty of options. And then you can consider large universities - Maryland, Penn State and so forth that have decent-sized Jewish populations - but I don’t feel they are suitable for a “B” student who may need some academic support - and hence my frustration. It is hard to find small-medium sized schools for a “B” student with a decent Jewish population as well.</p>
<p>Many people post here who have different priorities as far as how large a Jewish population they desire at college. For some, it is not at the top of their wish list. For others - it is a primary consideration. I’m trying to carve out some middle ground and help my son select colleges that - at a minimum - have a Hillel and some Jewish life. I hate to eliminate a college that is a good fit in every other aspect - but that has a smaller Jewish population. So - we compromise.</p>
<p>I’m not sure if your comments are directed at Elon specifically - but I am impressed with what they have accomplished in the past 5 years or so. I think that when you evaluate the “Jewishness” of a college - you need to look at not just where they are today - but in which direction they are heading. I am comfortable that Elon is heading in the right direction as far as Jewish life and it remains at the top of my son’s list. I have also eliminated some schools that have little if any Jewish life and seem to have no interest in promoting it - so there perhaps we agree.</p>
<p>What colleges do you like? I’d be interested to hear what schools would make your recommended list.</p>
<p>MDMOMFROMLI- Ive been thinking about your situation. I would suggest a conference with the Principal and if need be your Superintendent. There should be an exception and the dropped class should not be on the transcript. If a student can appeal a suspension from a transcript, clearly a scheduling mistake should be allowed as well.</p>
<p>cherryhillmomto2 - After reading your response, I think I will go with my D to meet with her grade administrator to see if I can discuss having the classes just switched out and not have the drop showing on her transcript. The classes are within the same department and it’s not like she is stepping down in a class. Getting a meeting with the Superindent of schools would probably take place after she graduates in 2012…I am in one of the largest school districts in the country! LOL!</p>
<p>But thanks cherryhill, as my husband would say you just kick started the NY in me. I don’t usually roll over, but I have been out of NY for awhile! Now off to tell D that I am getting involved. She won’t be happy.</p>
<p>Just spoke to D - she said why can’t she have the discussion with the administrator and say all of those things? I said she could have the first conversation and if it doesn’t work, then I make an appointment. She agreed. Wow! I am so proud of her for the way she has been advocating for herself…and I told her that.</p>
<p>Thanks sooo much, RVM…your words really moved me deeply.</p>
<p>Since we are now waiting for an ED response for S1, I am now where you were 2 years ago. My S fell in love with this school, not throughout h.s.,like in your S’s case, but just last year. We had never visited colleges before last year and my S fell “in love” with this school almost immediately. We had taken him to several schools before this one and he liked something about each one, but when we toured this school, it just “clicked” and everything he seemed to be looking for, he found. </p>
<p>So, of course, his favorite then became our favorite, and now we’re rooting for his favorite to come through. Yes, it will be devastating if the ED defers or rejects him…and it will definitely be challenging to figure out what college to choose next…he has applied to 5 colleges altogether including ED and has 5 more waiting to submit if he has to, but of course I can’t get him to work on any more essays until the 15th…it’s driving me crazy.</p>
<p>I’ve told you before that my S2 falls into the “B” range for this thread, but since we live in New England, when the time comes, we’ll focus on “B” schools that are not too far away by car.</p>
<p>Thank you for starting this thread and thank you for your encouraging words of advice…it’s an extremely nerve wracking time and it’s nice to have the support of this thread and to know we’re not alone! :)</p>
<p>Good for your daughter, mdmomfromli! I don’t think the withdrawal would be a big deal, though, if it is an elective. She could just explain it in the “extra information” area.</p>
<p>2flipper2, I would be interested in knowing if you have discussed your feelings with your kids and how that discussion went. I agree that for most Jewish kids, a significant Jewish population and an active Jewish organization is really important, and I share your sentiments about marriage. Please know, however, that there can be situations where colleges share a Hillel, and that Hillel is very strong. Pittsburgh’s Jewish University Center/Hillel is an example of that. It is located right between Pitt and CMU, which are adjacent to each other anyway, and serves all of the campuses in Pittsburgh. This just makes it a stronger Hillel. </p>
<p>Rockvillemom, please know that large universities do offer academic support. Most have subject-specific tutoring centers where students can just go and do their work, every day or evening if necessary, asking for help whenever they need it. They have writing centers. They have academic advisors, librarians that are extremely knowledgeable and help with research, professors with office hours, peer or graduate student tutors, language conversation partners, and it goes on. The resources for academic support can be great at large universities.</p>
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<p>RVM, I think that I’ve already shared my son’s devastation when he got turned down for ED from Vanderbilt, but that it turned to great happiness and relief when UMich accepted him EA. I remember trying to buck him up during that week inbetween. So we all have to remember to focus ourselves and our kids on the marathon rather than the sprint.</p>
<p>Coincidently I logged on and found out that D has been deferred from Tulane. I haven’t told her and will wait for the letter since her cousin got accepted there as her third or lower choice with a $25k scholarship. Even so, I had fully expected an outright rejection and so choose to take it as almost a good sign for her other less reachy schools. Hope she will too.</p>
<p>mdmomfromli - obviously you know the best course of action for you and your D - but I’m not convinced this is a battle worth fighting. I think the option the school has already offered is fair and the situation is easily clarified by the GC if needed. Requesting they remove the course completely - this far into the year - I would be very surprised if they agreed to do that. </p>
<p>levirm - thank you for your comments on large universities. I should have made my point more clear that I was speaking specifically about my son and what I feel is the best sized college for him and I believe a smaller school is more appropriate for him. I’m sure large universities do have the resources you have described - but I’m guessing the student has to be more proactive to seek out support - whereas at a smaller institution - it is more likely that the student will be contacted by an advisor and nudged towards the available resources.</p>
<p>mhc - I’m glad you only had a week of anxiety between the ED deferral and the EA acceptance from Michigan, We had to twist in the wind until mid-March - it was a looong winter.</p>
<p>Are you going to pursue turning that Tulane deferral into an acceptance? I have seen good results with Tulane - sending more grades, recs, etc. Tulane has a pretty low yield - so if it is towards the top of her list - let the regional rep know - demonstrated interest plus some additional credentials might do the trick.</p>
<p>What a lot of wonderful, thoughtful, caring parents here. My best wishes to everyone.</p>
<p>It is helpful not to be alone during this process. Of course virtually all of us have dozens if not hundreds of peers in our towns, through our high schools. But as we all know, finding someone who is the right person to talk to at the right time can be very difficult.</p>
<p>When my first D was applying to school, my best friend’s D was, too. Sometimes it was hard for us to handle sharing this journey together - it strained our compassion and our ability to fight jealousy and resentment, and forced us to face a lot of difficult and surprising feelings. Sometimes it seemed like too much for one friendship to withstand, but we did have each other, and there was no changing the fact that we were going through the same thing at the same time. Now it’s four years later, and we continue to help each other deal with having a young adult to parent. </p>
<p>This time, I don’t have a friend who has a D the same age, taking the same journey. Maybe that’s a good thing; my best friend loves this D very much and has been a wonderful support, and much more objective. But I appreciate very much having this group of people to talk to, to get advice from, and to help when I can. In many ways it’s been better, and healthier, to work through the process in this way.</p>
<p>mhc, for example, your description of your current situation is full of fear, sadness, jealousy, pride, relief and hope. I admire you for your caring and thoughtful response and thank you for sharing it with us.</p>
<p>RVM - I can’t say how much I appreciate your words. You help all of us so very much.</p>
<p>It was so comforting this morning to log on a read the threads about ED. RVM and MHC, thanks for sharing your older son’s experiences. I really worry about how hard my daughter will take it if things don’t work out, and it’s nice to know that I can come here for support if I need it.</p>
<p>Emmybet: I have had some experiences similar to yours with friends going through this at the same time. I have wonderful friends, but we all have kids around the same ages, and there is a degree of competition. It’s so nice to come on here and just feel the support for each other.</p>
<p>CCC: It sounds like we are in similar situations with an ED dream school. My daughter’s school has been her top choice since she discovered it in the Fiske Guide last fall. I know that she can be happy at other schools, but she has her heart set on this one. All my research indicates that she has a very good chance of getting in, but it’s still nerve racking. The next 2 weeks will go very slowly.</p>
<p>Thanks to everything I learned on CC, my daughter already has 2 acceptances. Any parent who has gone through this process can tell you how much those early acceptances help relieve the pressure. I highly encourage those of you with younger kids to make sure to include at least one rolling safety school on your kid’s list.</p>
<p>RVM, for what it’s worth, my sister in law and her husband just had to drive up to Middlebury to bring home their son who was flunking out, not going to classes and hardly leaving his room. Middlebury is a small school and has one of the most proactive and supportive staffs around (they eventually called my sister in law). But even the availability of caring staff and a proactive approach doesn’t always help. </p>
<p>As to whether we continue to pursue Tulane, a lot will depend on what other schools she gets into and how she feels about them. Five years ago my older D was waitlisted at Oberlin. We kept her on the list, sent in additional materials and letters and eventually she was admitted. So I know the drill. In the end, she went to Colgate instead (can you think of two more opposite schools?)</p>
<p>Momjr, if you think it’s difficult helping your child weathering through the dissappointment of not getting into their first choice school, it pales by a magnitude over dealing with them getting into that school but later having to be brought home. Or from what friends tell me, even being so unhappy as to want to transfer. Now my sister in law is agonizing over whether to let her daughter go to to her first choice, more stressful school, vs another less prestigious but more laid back one. Even so far that yesterday she and her daughter scheduled a quick trip down to visit the ED school a second time in order to decide whether to withdraw the application before she’s accepted. </p>
<p>Going back to levirim’s point, I was shocked (and happily surprised) when my son at Michigan, on his own, availed himself of both the university’s tutoring service and paper writing advice. In high school he would have rather cut off his hand before going to either. Every kid is different. Maybe some degree of laissez faire helps them grow?</p>
<p>While on the topic of not being accepted into the number one choice we know how that feels. S didn’t do ED so it wasn’t till April that he got WL’d. The thing that amazed me was that he was visibly diappointed for about 5 minutes and then forged on. Attempting to pursue the WL but not hanging on it. As I have said before the story has a happy ending. Sometimes as parents we worry more about our kids disappointment but sometimes the kids will surprise you and be prepared to move on. His strength forced me to shape up. For those of you who are hanging on till 12/15, I know all kids are different but we openly discussed where the focus would be if there was an unhappy outcome. Oddly enough I think it may have helped, although it wasn’t by design, that there were a couple of unvisited unknowns on the list that had potential to become and eventually did become the new first choice.</p>
<p>As for getting off the WL, I’m always interested in hearing what people did to get off. It seemed like such a fine line to walk as to not be a desperate pest vs showing interest. So many have talked about staying in touch with the adcom and sharing progress. S was already a consistent A student so sharing more of the same didn’t seem like it would be sharing news, he was in the midst of a project that he wasn’t going to complete until after graduation so that was not really a bragging point either. Basically S was on a steady course but didn’t have new news in the spring of senior year. We really didn’t know how to spin that. It would help me if I had to deal with that again and probably others to get some ideas about communication with the adcom if there really isn’t significant new news to share…On the topic of what not to do; S actually had his school rep on the phone and when asked if admitted if he would definitely go, S replied that he would if the financial aid would make it possible. I knew it was time to scratch that one off the list when I heard that.</p>
<p>spectrum2 - in the case of an “A” student who is WL - I would send more grades - either 2nd trimester or 3rd quarter - depending on the school. You are demonstrating that there is no senioritis and that the “A” grades are holding steady. I would also add an additional teacher rec from a senior year teacher. </p>
<p>mhc48 - thanks for the Middlebury anecdote - I have heard similar stories at other very high pressure schools. Reinforces my belief that fit trumps prestige and that not every student needs or should have reach schools.</p>
<p>On parental competition - I really did not have any close friends with hs seniors when my older son went through the process. I do with my younger son, but as others have mentioned, there is that odd competitive feeling - not wanting to share too much private info, etc. (Which is odd considering how much private info I am willing to share here!) I really don’t plan to tell any of these friends with their own kids the same age at the same school where S2 is applying.</p>
<p>Changing topic for the moment - High Point is probably one of the most hotly debated schools on cc. Many people do not respect it academically - calling it a country club and so forth. I don’t have a clear opinion on that issue as we have not visited the school. I did consider it as a possible safety school for S2 at one point - but dropped it due to lack of Jewish population and Jewish life. I had an occasion a few weeks back to meet with an admissions rep at High Point and I told him that I was no longer interested in the school and why. He promised to send me some info on Jewish life at High Point that would change my mind - so I am copying you all as well:</p>
<p>"What is the Jewish community like at High Point? How large is the Jewish population?</p>
<p>Approximately 75 Jewish students currently attend High Point University, a number that has doubled in the past year with 38 Jewish students in the freshman class. Jewish students at High Point come from a wide variety of religious backgrounds. Some come from families that have made Judaism an integral part of their lives, and some from families that have little or no tradition of practicing Judaism. We have students who come from families with two Jewish parents, and others from families with one Jewish parent. We even have some non-Jewish students who have become interested in Jewish culture, history and theology. All students are welcome at our events, and a number of Jewish faculty members are also active participants in the community.</p>
<p>What opportunities does the university offer for Jewish students?</p>
<p>The dramatic growth of our community has sparked a wave of new activities this year. In addition to our tradition of transporting students to area synagogues for High Holidays services and to holiday meals at the home of the faculty advisor to the Jewish Students Association, this semester the university hosted an event featuring Israeli and Palestinian students from the OneVoice Movement, which seeks to promote a peaceful two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Students have traveled to the University of North Carolina- Greensboro for a regional Shabbat dinner and organized a Hanukkah party, and spring events will include a celebration of Purim and a Passover seder. </p>
<p>What is it like to be Jewish at High Point?</p>
<p>High Point University is affiliated with the United Methodist Church, but that does not mean that everyone on campus is Methodist (or even Christian), nor does that affiliation dictate the way faculty teach their courses. The university is committed to religious diversity and tolerance, and the university chaplain is among the biggest supporters of the Jewish community. Jewish students feel comfortable and well supported in this community. If you have any concerns on this issue, please contact the advisor of the Jewish Students Association, who will be happy to put you directly in touch with Jewish undergraduates."</p>
<p>I personally feel the Jewish population is too small for my son, but I wanted to make this info available for anyone else who is interested.</p>
<p>I agree with the competitive thing. A lot of my friends have kids my D1’s age and we all talk about the college selection process, etc. It is a very competitive process. I also try to generalize with my friends. D actually said to me that when she makes her decisions on where to apply, she doesn’t want to tell anyone. I said that’s fine. I also told her she doesn’t need to share her SAT scores with anyone. If asked, she can just say she did well, but wants to pull up her math score and that’s why she is taking it again. That is true, but she doesn’t need to provide details. </p>
<p>I think our kids can learn to share information without giving out all of the details. Kind of like spectrum2’s S - didn’t need to give the extra info about financial aid! </p>
<p>One of the things I tell my kids is that just because someone asks you a question, doesn’t mean you have to answer it!</p>
<p>While I doubt this group will ever lack for things to talk about, perhaps we ought to hold waitlist, deferral (and even rejection) support discussions until they come around, and are mixed with some acceptances.</p>
<p>“Tsores mit yoykh iz gringer vi tsores on yoykh” </p>
<p>(Troubles with soup is easier than troubles without soup.)</p>
<p>My younger D is a junior, and I feel the relative calm of high school (with respect to the college process) is coming to the end. At her school, students ‘officially’ begin the college process in the second half of junior year, with meetings (group and individual, as guidance/college counselors become available after the seniors are done with their applications). If not already begun, students begin standardized testing and work on developing a list of colleges to visit from spring of junior year through fall of senior year.</p>
<p>So, with this in mind, I’m comforted to know that this thread is here. There’s been so much balanced sharing of information and support, as well as acknowledgement that “B” students have as much to offer the world as “A” students. I look forward to returning here again and again over the coming months as we enter fully into this process.</p>
<p>mhc: Sorry about that, but I only mentioned it now because with S1 it seemed that clearly discussing the possibility of not getting admitted with a positive, life goes on plan may have helped. (I guess using your analogy the plan was the soup).</p>