Colleges for the Jewish "B" student (Part 1)

Parents Forum
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<p>Collage1 - in matters Tulane, I will generally defer to FallenChemist - but since you asked me my experience - the vast majority of the kids at my school apply to Tulane EA. Most were either accepted or deferred - a few were outright denied. If S2 does decide to apply to Tulane - he will do EA. The benefit of this is that if you do get accepted - you can really streamline the rest of your list. I think it’s a long shot for my son - but this is where the fast app is beneficial - with no app. fee and no essay - why not?</p>

<p>One thing I vehemently recommend against (FallenChemist - I feel very strongly on this point) is applying SCEA - single choice early action. Here’s why - when you apply SCEA - you cannot apply to any other schools under early action. This severely limits your opportunities to apply to an array of safety schools. I find this practice ridiculous - even if you apply binding ED you can apply to as many EA scools as you want. Here’s what happens - typically the kid who applies SCEA is a weaker applicant and they think that applying SCEA will give them a boost. Tulane gives very quick turnaround (2-3 weeks) for the strongest applicants - basically cherry picking the strongest ones and also giving them significant merit scholarships. But the more marginal candidates - decisions dragged on into December - 6-8 weeks. Meanwhile, they had missed all the other EA deadlines. I know one students who ultimately was rejected from Tulane after applying SCEA, he had applied to 1-2 rolling schools - but had missed out on EA everywhere else by the time he got his rejection from Tulane in mid-December. Then he had a mad scramble to get more apps out by January 1st, etc. Not a pretty picture. Long story short - don’t apply SCEA. If Tulane wants you - you’ll be accepted under regular EA. If they don’t want you - so be it - but don’t let them hamper your freedom to apply to other schools EA - not worth it.</p>

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<p>This was the first year of SCEA at Tulane, and they probably still have to work bugs out of their system. Add to that the fact that they keep getting more and more and more applications-- this year getting more applications (44,000, IIRC) than any other private university in the country. This must have really overwhelmed the admissions staff. Yes, they have bugs in their system to work, out, but it is probably not a calculated plan to drag out the admissions status of some candidates. Following the TU thread, I saw several strong candidates whose applications took a long time to process, and others who heard sooner, including those who may not have been as strong. In general, the sooner the application is submitted, the faster the candidate is going to hear back. </p>

<p>In truth, I agree that I am not sure what benefit the SCEA offers other than “showing the love” as it were. Curious though, other universities that offer SCEA-- when do they notify the student of their decision? If it is also mid-December, then TU’s use of SCEA is really no different thatn other schools.</p>

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<p>Rodney, snow flurries on Mother’s Day weekend in Alfred, Elmira, Corning, Binghamton, Albany & into Bennington, VT, on our way home! You just never know. H threw snow brush out of our van in wee hours of Saturday AM. “Geuss we won’t be needing this.” I had another opinion, which I made him aware of. On Mother’s Day AM, van was covered with snow. </p>

<p>With the drinking, it is everywhere (unless religious affiliation is involved, i.e. BYU or similiar, like military) You just hope your children make wise choices & that you have given them the tools necessary to do this, when you raised them! (4th time around here). What is most difficult? They must be happy after they get there: get along with their roommates, like (most of ) their classes, like (most of ) their professors, etc. You as a parent do not want to hear “transfer talk” in October!</p>

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<p>jym626 - I’m not aware of very many other schools that offer SCEA or the very similar REA (restricted early action). I know Stanford does - but I think we would all agree that a Stanford applicant is very different from a Tulane applicant. Stanford allows applicants to apply to their state flagship under a priority program - so generally that would be the safety and then that type of student would probably have a lot of RD applications anyway. My issue is kids who are applying to Tulane as a reach - doing SCEA in the belief it improves their chances - and then not being able to apply EA to safety schools - when this is the exact type of student who should be applying to 5-6 EA schools as match/safeties. I would rather see Tulane offer ED again - let those who love Tulane apply ED, while still being able to send out as many EA apps as they desire.</p>

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<p>Yale offers this; Harvard has just ended the practice.</p>

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<p>IMO, it doesnt matter what school a student is applying to SCEA. Even if its Stanford or Yale, these are still reach schools for any candidate of any caliber, just as TU might be a reach school for another student. The scenario is the same-- apply to the reach school with hopes of getting in- and show committment, without it being a binding decision. As you mentioned, Tulane doesn’t offer an ED option, so that isn’t a possibility.</p>

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<p>Right - so it is very limited. An applicant applying to Yale or Stanford is going to have a very different list of safety schools - most of which do not offer EA anyway - so it’s really not an issue. A student applying to Tulane, particularly as a reach school, needs EA safeties - that’s all I’m saying.</p>

<p>Yes, I realize Tulane does not offer ED presently. I’m saying I wish they did - I would rather a student who loves Tulane apply ED and not have any limitations on their safety school strategy. Given that Tulane has yield issues - I am actually surprised that they don’t offer ED. The kids I know who applied SCEA last year would certainly have applied ED - and they would have been able to apply to EA safety schools without limits.</p>

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<p>I guess I just don’t see the difference, rockvillemom. Students applying SCEA to any schools should have safeties in mind, no matter what school they choose to apply to. SCEA doesnt limit rolling admissions, just EA applications. Safeties don’t have to be EA applications. It may or may not increase chances of acceptance. Its just nice to know one will be going to college.</p>

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<p>Didn’t find the notification timeline on Yale’s website yet, but Tulane clearly says SCEA students will hear by Dec. 15. The fact that they may hear earlier is a bonus

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<p>I don’t want to beat this tangent to death - it’s just that a student who applies REA to Yale or Stanford will have a different list of schools from someone who applies SCEA to Tulane. For example, the students I know who applied REA to Stanford applied RD to a number of schools after being deferred from Stanford - ranging from Georgetown to UVA and so forth. They also applied priority to our state flagship, which is allowed. A student who is applying as a reach to Tulane under SCEA would be the type of student who might also apply EA to College of Charleston, or Elon, and so forth. They were not able to do this. So, in my experience, the REA at Yale or Stanford did not hurt those applicants, while the SCEA at Tulane did. That’s my anecdotal account, that’s all.</p>

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<p>I agree, we don’t need to beat this to death, and for the mostpart we seem to agree. All I am saying is that IMO the strategy and process is identical (except IDK if Tulane permits applications to one’s state school under priority). Yale only allows ED applications if the student won’t hear until after Jan 1. Its the identical process, but with a different batch of students, stats, and schools to choose from. The only difference I see is the issue of whether or not a student can apply to a state flagship, and, if I am reading your correctly, that you feel that the lower caliber students (for lack of a better term) should apply to more EA schools, whereas the stronger students either may not need to, or might not be applying to as many schools that offer EA. Not sure I agree with the last points, but I thinkt hats what you are saying.</p>

<p>btw- here is Yale’s policy, and I think they notify SCEA in mid-December:

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<p>You are all a little wrong, I think.</p>

<p>First, Yale (and Stanford) SCEA decisions are by December 15.</p>

<p>Second, all of the SCEA programs (as far as I know, haven’t looked at Tulane’s) permit students to apply to rolling admission schools and to meet priority application deadlines for scholarships. They also permit ED II applications (those are the early programs that don’t give you an answer before January 1, so that a student accepted SCEA would have time to withdraw that application before the final decision).</p>

<p>Third, it’s ludicrous to suggest that “REA at Yale or Stanford did not hurt those applicants”. The program is fair, but anyone who has spent time with a student deciding what to do knows that the decision to apply SCEA to Yale or Stanford can be quite difficult, because it means giving up the chance to get a meaningful ED boost applying someplace else. It’s precisely those kids who look like great SCEA candidates at Yale who would be practically assured of admission if they applied ED to, say, Penn or Williams, and who face maybe 4-1 odds at Yale and are NOT assured of admission at their second-choice college RD (and their next-choice colleges tend not to have ED II). Most do wind up fine in the end – they are accepted someplace they like, often many such places – but there can be scary moments along the way.</p>

<p>I agree that potential Tulane SCEA applicants are a very different group, but my guess is that they are much more likely to wind up at a rolling-admission state university or a college with ED II, so the “SC” part may mean less to them.</p>

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<p>Thanks, JHS- I think you said what I said- only you said it better.</p>

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<p>Wow–you miss a few hours on this thread and you are 30 posts behind!</p>

<p>Collage1, given Fallenchemists’s comment about 25th percentile, consider whether your child might be better off at a school where they are in the top 50%–and where your chances for merit aid will be much better.</p>

<p>I have nothing against Tulane–this is a general thought to keep in mind.</p>

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<p>collage1 - completely agree with Yabeyabe on the merit aid issue at Tulane - while your (and my) lower stats kid might possibly get in - they are very unlikely to get merit aid.</p>

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<p>JHS - I generally think I write pretty clearly - but something seems to be getting lost in translation. The kids I work with who are so high stat that they would be applying to Yale or Stanford under REA do not generally have schools with EA on their lists. Yes, they miss out on the oportunity to apply to another reach school ED, agreed. But I do not see REA hurting them in the sense that it is preventing them from applying EA to safety schools. I do see this issue very acutely with kids who apply to Tulane under SCEA and that’s all I am trying to say.</p>

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<p>I think all parents–and, frankly, Jewish parents more than most–think in terms of “What is the most selective/prestigious school my child can into?” For B+ kids, that is often a poor choice–if they have spent HS feeling inferior to the all A’s in all Honors kids, this might schedule them for more of the same (and cost you merit $). </p>

<p>Moreover, there are lots of schools where the professors focus only on the A kids. My son was thrilled to get a large merit scholarship, which would never have happened at a reach school. </p>

<p>Some kids will benefit from having to try extra hard to keep up, others will flounder.</p>

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<p>Re: SUNY Binghamton It has become the most difficult of the SUNY’s to get into. The guidance counselor recently told my S (straight A’s, all AP/honors, top ten rank, high SAT’s, etc) that Bing is not a sure thing. I think a lot of kids are considering SUNY Albany now. Someone also posted earlier about West Chester in Pa. Love that school! It is beautiful, not too far from a city and has a nice mix of kids.</p>

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<p>What of University of Maryland at College Park–I know it’s a big school, but I know that kids, Jewish kids, are happy there and feel tended to by the admin.</p>

<p>Univ. of Rochester (know kids who picked it over Tufts, Wash U., and the Ivy Leagues) and Emory are pretty darn selective as far as acceptance–high Jew count and good Hillel attendance, however. Boston University has a large Jewish population, but I caution against the school for the following reasons–it is big without a lot of support and a disappointment for some kids because it has no “real” campus. </p>

<p>Tulane is increasingly selective, especially since, rumor has it, they may be eliminating rolling admissions. Significant Jewish population, and kids love it, there. Also, New Orleans is about as exciting a city as one could hope for in No. America. My daughter’s best friend’s sister goes there (accepted at Wash U. Penn, CAL, and a few others), was partially seduced by the merit money, will start her senior year, after a semester abroad, and LOVES it!! She also obtained quite an impressive internship (she is an Econ major) for this summer, coming from Tulane.</p>

<p>Have not read through the entire thread, but has anyone proposed Univ. of Wisconsin at Madison. It’s an excellent school–again, with a pronounced Jewish population. And while UW@M is not anyone’s idea of a small school, I know that students feel nurtured, there.</p>

<p>And, Syracuse.</p>

<p>Sorry, if I’m not much help with the smaller colleges–my daughter, too, wanted a significant and active Jewish population but eschewed anything under 5,000 students.</p>

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<p>yabeyabe - I agree with you 100%. I know S2 has been very frustrated struggling to hang onto a B in his honors Algebra 2 class - which is a mix of 9th and 10th graders - while watching the very bright 9th graders get A’s pretty easily. I really have learned that for him - the fit is going to be more important than the prestige. I may have irritating moments when relatives (well-meaning or not) question where he is applying or attending, saying “where, I have never heard of that school?” , but I know that I have to stay focused on what is the best fit for my B student, hence this thread.</p>

<p>Wanted to mention a college guide - I already have Fiske and Princeton Review - but just ordered Barrons Best Buys in College Education, 10th edition. The thing that attracted my - besides the usual synopsis and emphasis on cost/value, is that this guide does give some stats on % of Jewish students at some of the schools. I have never seen that before. For example, the 6th edition, shows Elizabethtown as 1% Jewish, Susquehanna as 1% Jewish, and York College as 4% Jewish. So, I’m curious to see what the updated 10th edition has to say. I also think this book has a lot of schools that might be safety schools for a B student that would not be found in Fiske or Princeton Review. Hopefully my new version arrives tomorrow - that’s what I’ll be reading at the pool this weekend! LOL.</p>