<p>2flipper2,Levirm, RVM, Momjr, thank you for your comments. I am relieved to hear that all of you are in agreement that getting a job now isn’t the way to go. Levirm I really like your suggestions for earning money as well as creating a contract. RVM the suggestion about pet sitting could possibly work out well in our development. I know S2 appreciates your support for the avodah program. </p>
<p>It isn’t so much that we can’t cover the expenses as much as I feel that we would be amiss as parents if S2 didn’t bear the responsibility. We can spread the responsibility out over time. If I felt that the accident was the result of being irresponsible or wreckless then I would be looking at a punitive response. In this case as 2flipper2 points out it was a judgement issue and as momjr points out it was inexperience. After reading what each of you wrote i am leaning toward spreading the payment out over time. </p>
<p>spectrum - I also agree that you should not have him get a job now or miss out on the summer program. But I do think that once you total your out of pocket expenses for this, that he should be responsible. We all make mistakes and he should pay the costs of his. I like the idea of having a repayment plan set up. Are there even things he could do around the house to earn money? Like mowing the lawn instead of paying a lawn service? Things like that?</p>
<p>mdmom: There really is a lot of yardwork to be done and S has been helping with this. It is difficult to separate out what his job is because he lives here and what he does to be paid. Most of what he is doing isn’t work we intended to hire out. Actually, it was a given in our minds that he would be doing some of it. Its all a new thing since we are in a new home. I guess we could try and figure our what would be above and beyond basic expectations.</p>
<p>spectrum - I don’t have anything to add to the good advice you’ve been given. I think your instincts are very good on this one - yes, he should bear some responsibility, but not to the detriment of his academic and important extracurricular activities, given that this was an accident caused by inexperience, not poor judgement.</p>
<p>I know I’m just repeating what’s already been said, but it helps me to repeat it, should I ever find myself in a similar position.</p>
<p>(we’ll save the conversation about the high cost of being an avodah for another day. DH refers to it as an opportunity for us to pay the camp so DD can clean toilets :eek:)</p>
<p>spectrum2 - agree with all the other posters. My S was Avadah in the same program and while it is costly, it is a great opportunity for leadership and sets him up for employment the following year. He will be working hard. It is paid volunteer work-with you paying. Nonetheless, I support the program. </p>
<p>It was an accident- all of us can make a mistake. I think the larger lesson is contributing to the cost of the driving. My kids both babysat and worked for the Temple during High School. You could set up a portion of earnings to go towards insurance. My son ( now working) wished he had more knowledge about car insurance , health care copays etc. This might be a great opportunity to teach about these concepts. </p>
<p>I too however, would not do anything to interfere with his schoolwork. School is their work. His goal of A&M hinges on the GPA/Class Rank. The cost difference of in state vs, oss is huge, as you know.</p>
<p>You said it yourself - he is a great kid. That says alot.</p>
<p>Has anyone looked into KU in Lawrence,KS? My son has it as a safety school but it has a phenomenal Jewish reputation. String Hillel. Also happens to be gorgeous, quite affordable, stellar academics but with a laid back atmosphere. I would think a solid B student should have no problem getting in. Very popular with Jewish kids from MN and IL. We live in WI. Even though it was originally my sons safety school he has it tied for second above more competitive schools he has been accepted by. He likes the atmosphere and school spirit.</p>
<p>Jenjen: We had a long discussion about KU a few weeks back. It does sound like a great option for Jewish students. Good luck to your son. Please let us know where he decides to attend.</p>
<p>I posted some stuff earlier. Kansas is becoming a hot school for jewish kids. I call it the new Indiana. As IU has raised it admission standards, KU has risen. A lot of midwest jews. Many from Texas. The two coasts are slower to catch on. We are going to visit it in April. I hear the campus is amazing.<br>
You should know that they have a private dorm. Not part of the University housing system. It is called Naismith. Mostly jewish freshmen live there. It is known as BnaiSmith. If your child goes, you should look into it. It is the Jewish ghetto. Kind of like Statesider?towers at Wisconsin.</p>
<p>Many others will disagree vehemently with me, and I both respect their opinions and understand the importance of group identity, but the idea of freshmen seeking out a private dorm referred to as “bnaismith” strikes me as kids missing out on an important part of the college experience–the opportunity for broadening their experiences and learning about the real world by living with people of different faiths. </p>
<p>This also reinforces negative stereotypes about Jewish kids being “clannish” or thinking the regular dorms were not good enough for them. I would react the same way if I read of affluent WASPs preferring a dorm because it had no Jews, or no African-Americans, etc. Although residential frats often serve a similar purpose for a wide range of groups, at least those kids have had a year of living with others.</p>
<p>Without meaning to be too argumentative, I also note that several of the participants in this thread, including me, criticized a student for joing about Jews being cheap. I similarly do not find the term “Jewish ghetto” amusing and would not use it any more than I would refer to a dorm popular with Asian American students as “an internment camp”. I think many people of all faiths don’t know that ghettoes were essentially prisons, as Jews were not allowed to live anywhere else, as well as convenient targets for those seeking to murder Jews for centuries before the liquidation of the ghetto shown in Schindler’s List. I think using the term humorously (even unintentionally) risks diminishing recognition of how awful residential segregation was.</p>
<p>I recognize no offense was intended, but ask you to consider my point of view.</p>
<p>I am signing on just to say a quick “hello” to all of you…I am currently in Miami visiting my mom and staying with my sister…I haven’t had a chance to sign on to cc or even email so I took a minute now…I haven’t been able to take the time to read the few pages I’ve missed, but I hope to have a chance when I return home next week…</p>
<p>Linymom: I’ve thought of you since I pass the Univ. of Miami each day…so your S really likes it? Do you think that’s where he’ll choose? I LOVE Cuban food and Miami is surely the place for it! I may pm you when I get a chance.</p>
<p>RVM: I’m sure you & your S are breathing easier since ACT results…good for him! I am slowly seeing signs of my S2 learning how to navigate more his own projects, etc…</p>
<p>I’ll try to write again, otherwise I’ll just write next week when I’m back home.</p>
<p>Yabe - I for one agree with you wholeheartedly. There is a difference between wanting our Jewish teens to find a collegiate environment where they are comfortable and welcomed - and trying to isolate them in a Jewish enclave. I recognize that sometimes these nicknames catch on and just seem to stick (Tulane = Jewlane, etc.) but we don’t have to perpetuate those names ourselves.</p>
<p>And as far as the “Jewish ghetto” reference - I’m just going to take that as one more indication of the need for our Jewish History book group. I’m sure we could find a wonderful book about what it was truly like living in those real Jewish ghettos - the bravery and the suffering - and then we would be less likely to casually use that phrase.</p>
<p>PRJ and Texasmother, thank you for adding your voices to answering my dilemma. The more I hear the more right it seems not to get too ballistic about dealing with this. I haven’t really discussed my concern with anyone I see on a regular basis. Maybe because I anticipate, maybe incorrectly, that the tendency in these parts is to take a hard line. But then Texasmother you are from here so I could be mistaken. In any case I appreciate the reinforcement. Texasmother, I also appreciate your comments on the avodah program since I know you are completely familiar with the particular program my S is looking at working with.</p>
<p>Chocchip: I hope you are having a good visit.</p>
<p>Cliquish dorms are part of college life too. One mom from a wealthy Texas urban neighborhood told me that all of the kids from her local HS who went to a particular state university all stayed at the same private dorm. Incidentally she didn’t want her kids to be a part of that. That is major cliquish! In the case of KU I expect that as Tulane isn’t all Jewish, not even mostly Jewish I guess that the KU dorm isn’t either. It is probably a good place for Jewish kids to find other Jewish kids. It is probably a place where lots of Jewish kids stay. I would expect there are a mix of kids there but this is pure speculation on my part. I agree that while for some it is nice to have some familiarity around, be it HS friends or neighbors of a similar background, going to college should be about exploring new horizons.</p>
<p>The Ghetto question intrigued me. I am aware of the history Yabe presented but I grew up thinking of a ghetto as a concentrated ethnic community within a city, often a slum. I expected for sure that the latter was the common definition. Not so according to Miriam Webster. Yabe’s is the number one definition. OK, so I thought that was interesting.</p>
<p>So as you might guess I haven’t been all that sensitive to the word “ghetto” but several years ago I was part of a group that was seeking a name. One woman, who happened to be of German descent suggested the name -----ing Nazi’s to me with a laugh. (I don’t think she knew I was Jewish.) I felt myself turn pale, my jaw drop open, and my eyes turn cold, I was speechless, but I know my face said it all. Words can be powerful especially when the listener connects them to abominable roots.</p>
<p>What exactly is a “private dorm”–is it just an off-campus house or is it larger than that? </p>
<p>Regarding ghettoes, in, for example, Rome and Venice, which most of us associate admiringly with romance, friendly people and great food–the ghettoes were surrounded by walls and guarded gates to ensure no one moved out without permission. As the population grew, the ghettos, hemmed in by the walls, became horribly overcrowded. The walls in Rome lasted until 1888, when the Pope lost his authority over that part of Rome; Napoleon knocked down the walls in Venice.</p>
<p>First let me begin by saying that I meant no offense. Most of you know that I constantly express my appreciation to the group for their help, I try to contribute when I can, and I also attempt to humor the group with my links to the jewish college experience. I am happy to apologize if needed. Though I do offer this definition and defense.
The following dictionary says
ghetto |ˈgetō|
noun ( pl. -tos or -toes)
a part of a city, esp. a slum area, occupied by a minority group or groups.
historical the Jewish quarter in a city : the Warsaw Ghetto.
an isolated or segregated group or area : the relative security of the gay ghetto.</p>
<p>The word Ghetto predated Nazi Germany. I do think that as a minority, Jews have tended to stay together. I think it goes way back. It also explains why the population tends to cluster in certain cities. It also goes to explain why certain suburbs have a disproportionate number of jews. I pride myself on being one of the best players of jewish geography. You name a city, and I can usually tell you where the jews live, and someone from there that I know. Boston University did that to me.
I currently live in a suburb that is more than 50% jewish. I grew up in a town with a tiny jewish population, and was called names. I am much happier living among my peers. My kids attend a non religious camp that is 95% jewish. My D1 wanted to go to a college with
a large jewish population, and was happy to live in the private dorm with a disproportionate amount of jews. I am sorry, but I liked that. D2, seeing what her sister enjoys, wants to find a school with like minded kids. I am not saying, that we are only friends with Jews. We have many friends.<br>
Anyway, I am proud to say I live in an upscale jewish g…o. ( i will not use the name again). Everyone should be tolerant of others. I think I am. I am not sorry that I have exposed my kids to the cloistered cohabitation of living with Jews. </p>
<p>As I always say…I appreciate all views here, enjoy the read, learn alot. I am sorry if my words offended. And If my d2 goes to Kansas, she will live in Bnaismith, by her own choosing.</p>
<p>In the case of Kansas, Texas, and Wisconsin…The private dorms that have large jewish populations are off campus, but very adjacent, large dorms. The two in Madison house about 700 combined, Texas has 750, and I think Kansas is in the same range. they have their own dining room and plan, and usually nicer amenities than the public dorms. In the case of D1 Texas dorm, they had a swimming pool, and four girls in a two bedroom two bath suite with a living room. </p>
<p>BTW… I am told Illinois also has a private dorm like those mentioned above.</p>
<p>The private dorms Socaldad describes sound like the apartments that Freshmen Connection kids live in at UMDCP. There seems to be a new trend in building apartments designed for students just off-campus in college areas. At many of these schools, freshmen are still required to live in on-campus dorms, so only upperclassmen live in the apartments.</p>
<p>I just want to dispel the impression that most Jews at KU live in Naismith Hall because Naismith is definitely not for everyone. Naismith Hall at KU houses maybe 300-350 students. Even assuming it is half Jewish (150-175 students), the vast majority of the Jewish students at KU (1800 per Hillel estimate) do not live in Naismith. They would live in dorms, Scholarship Halls, Jewish and non-Jewish fraternities and sororities and off-campus.</p>
<p>I just thought that I would relate this story: Our high school sends several students a year to the University of Wisconsin, and most of them live in private dorms. My understanding is that these are simply dorms that are privately owned and operated, with their own dining halls, and they are slightly more expensive but on the whole comparable to the dorms owned by the university. One lovely young woman that I know, a Jewish “A” student, was very excited to go there; in fact she chose it over University of Michigan. Her parents saw no reason for her to live in a private dorm, so she moved into the public dorm. She was absolutely miserable because all of the students in her dorm were from Wisconsin or Minnesota, they already knew each other, and they were extremely cliquish and excluded her. After the first semester, she came back and transferred to our local university (which has no such thing as a private dorm) and moved into one of the regular freshman dorms, where she immediately met kids from all over the country, made friends, and has been extremely happy ever since. I was present during a conversation among several people when someone asked her parents whether she might have been happier if she had lived in a private dorm at Wisconsin, and her parents said that this very well may have been the case. Certainly, the kids that we know who lived in the private dorm, both Jewish and non-Jewish, have been very happy there. This may be more of a function of an in-state and out-of-state pheonomenon, with students who already know each other in the public dorms and students in the private dorms who are coming from all over the country and are reaching out to meet new people.</p>